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[vertigomez]

^Yeah, neither Cullen nor Thrask strike me as anti-villains. MAYBE Cullen at Kinloch Hold when his brain was being fried by blood mages and he was lashing out... but Cullen in DA2? Nah.

OMG, I love the post you linked! And I agree with it, and with you.
 
A lot of people like to think about Cullen being into Amell (since she's the only one mentioned in DA2 and the cousin of Hawke), and a lot is made of the dynamic of a Templar and Mage, and a lot of speculation is made about him being secretly into mages. And that's awesome! That's a very interesting and worthy discussion.
 
I just kinda wish more attention was paid to his love of Surana and Lavellan, because that's a discussion that I find interesting. In my headcanon worldstate I always imagined Cullen fell for Surana, and I like to mentally explore the dynamic of a human who keeps falling for elven women, as well as the dynamic of a Templar who keeps falling for mages. Like you said, it can get one thinking about the implications of such an affair (what is it about Cullen that he can potentially keep falling for elven women as well as potentially mage women?), especially considering how good he is to elves this game and how respectful he can be to Lavellan about her culture.
 
(...)

I just kinda wish I didn't have to romance him as a Dalish Inquisitor if I wanted to romance him as a non-human, ya know?
 
He's a great guy and I love the dynamic, but I'm just not a fan of playing humans, and the fact that I have to play an elf if I want to smooch Cullen is a little stressful.

Ohhh yaaay, we're talking about this!

First off, I don't like being railroaded into certain races either, so I sympathize. Especially since my favorite races are dwarves and qunari, which doesn't help me with Cullen at all.

But I also find it interesting how the two love interests who're specifically into elven women are so very different. There's an interesting story there. The elf who Lavellan "should" fall for, who is open to magic and loves the past and is all about dat elven glory, turns out to be the monster used to frighten little elves into going to bed on time. He is dismissive of Dalish culture and you have to push him to accept that there are good, worthwhile things about the Dalish and they're not all going to call him a flat-ear and shoo him out of their aravels.

And of course theirs is a beautifully tragic romance, but I just find it fascinating to contrast with Cullen, who is a former Templar... and the Dalish have this huge nasty history with that Order... and yet he's the one who supports your Dalish vows and gives you a happy-ever-after romance. He's human, which is another absolute no-no, especially if your Lavellan wants kids because they will be human too, and that's one more elf "lost" to the humans. I just think this twist is kinda fascinating, even more so because both romances were added at the end.

I wonder if it's something he would agonize over. Like, he doesn't want to feel like he's fetishizing Lavellan, but oh elven ladies are rather lovely, ohhh no shouldn't say that, etc.

I think when I romance him, I'm gonna be a rebel and have a Dalish hunter instead.

[CuriousArtemis]

He's a great guy and I love the dynamic, but I'm just not a fan of playing humans, and the fact that I have to play an elf if I want to smooch Cullen is a little stressful.

 

Tooootally relate to this, as everyone here knows, obv. not for race but gender... I'm so happy not just that I got my gender mod but that so many people here got their race mod... Cullen 4 all (and when forced at swordpoint I do prefer Cullen with a dwarf or qunari woman over a human/elf woman)

 

Now, DA2!Cullen as anti-villain.

 

Okay, but actually, yes, I see it. I do agree with you, R2, that it necessitates the Templar Order be viewed as a villainous organization. However - is it not? The Templar Order as it is in DA2 (and particularly DA2) is quite villainous. People are kept against their will and in Kirkwall are very nearly treated as slaves; abuse is rampant, including sexual abuse, and then there are the Tranquil... if the Order acted in harmony with the Circle, perhaps it would not be such a villainous organization, but it's hard to deny that they are an oppressive organization AS they are presented within the game. Cullen is essentially at the head of that organization (alongside Meredith) and his "mages can't be treated like people!" line is very, very damning.

 

But he is an anti-villain, NOT a villain. He's a good man, truly. He was traumatized, severely so, and that's why he acts the way he acts. He's a good person who does horrible things (or allows them to be done). He kind of reminds me of, say, the police chief who protects his own even when it's obvious that the guys on his force are harassing innocent poor people and people of color. Like he's trying to be a strong leader and do the right thing, but he in this instance, he isn't, he's DEFINITELY not doing the right thing.

 

Thrask, I can see it. Again, he is a good man, and he has noble goals: freedom for mages. But he allows things to happen, bad things. He sides with bad people and allows them to do bad things. He's very similar to Cullen, not because he's a Templar (former templar, really, at that point), but because of what he's willing to let happen to achieve his (admirable) goal. Similar thing with Cullen. Cullen is willing to let bad things happen to achieve his otherwise noble goal (safety of the people against magic). 

 

So those are my thoughts, and to me it is why Cullen is one of if not the most interesting NPCs in the series. Though technically no longer just an NPC (yay)

[CuriousArtemis]

I think when I romance him, I'm gonna be a rebel and have a Dalish hunter instead.

 

Oh, and meant to say, I am romancing him with a hunter and I love it In fact whenever I envisioned romancing him years ago it was always with a fellow warrior (i don't mean in game terms because Auren is a rogue, but in terms of, both of them being warriors, fighters, soldiers). I love the dynamic (even if most of it is in my head lol I do love how Solas has different lines for a mage versus a hunter, so cool; wish Cullen did... or does he?) What I love about Cullen and Auren so far is that they are equals. They are about the same age and both are warriors. So there is healthy respect for the other... in addition to a magnetic attraction, of course. It makes the romance spicier and also in this instance I just like that it is on level ground. Now don't get me wrong; I love romances where one partner is clearly the stronger, too; my Solavellan romance is like that; sweet Alin is a young innocent and no match for ebil Solas lol

 

So I definitely recommend going with a hunter; I know mage is most popular in the fandom, which I can understand, but for me personally, it's hunter all the way!

[meanieweenie]

On anti-villain: I'm on the fence. Meaning, a little bit of both. I feel like the Order, by DA2, is no longer what it was meant to be when it was founded. Was it not initially supposed to hunt down maleficars and protect those in the Circle? Then that "protection" ended up being more policing at some point which then just turned ugly all together. It ended up being a haven for dirty cops and bullies that just wanted to keep a boot on the necks of all mages, period. I think DA2 Cullen definitely had his prejudices ("mages aren't people") but that he was also seeing the Order through that smokey Liz Taylor lens. I bet if he were interviewed post DA:I he would tell us that he felt something was wrong with the Order even before Meredith went nuts but wanted to hold on to the one thing that kept him going - the ideal that the Order could still do the good that it was originally intended to do. Is the Templar Order evil? I guess it really just depends on who's asking.  

 

How's that for a convoluted non-answer? lol

 

*A-hem...I would love to read that interview with Cullen, if anyone were to write it.* 

 

Addendum - We could also debate his "mages aren't people" to have less of an a-hole racist connotation. I think the entire comment was (copied from the wiki) "Mages cannot be treated like people. They are not like you and me. They are weapons. They have the power to light a city on fire in a fit of pique." Anders proved most of this statement to be true, although I highly disagree with them not being treated as people. 

[R2s Muse]

On anti-villain: I'm on the fence. Meaning, a little bit of both. I feel like the Order, by DA2, is no longer what it was meant to be when it was founded. Was it not initially supposed to hunt down maleficars and protect those in the Circle? Then that "protection" ended up being more policing at some point which then just turned ugly all together. It ended up being a haven for dirty cops and bullies that just wanted to keep a boot on the necks of all mages, period. I think DA2 Cullen definitely had his prejudices ("mages aren't people") but that he was also seeing the Order through that smokey Liz Taylor lens. I bet if he were interviewed post DA:I he would tell us that he felt something was wrong with the Order even before Meredith went nuts but wanted to hold on to the one thing that kept him going - the ideal that the Order could still do the good that it was originally intended to do. Is the Templar Order evil? I guess it really just depends on who's asking.  

 

How's that for a convoluted non-answer? lol

 

*A-hem...I would love to read that interview with Cullen, if anyone were to write it.* 

 

Addendum - We could also debate his "mages aren't people" to have less of an a-hole racist connotation. I think the entire comment was (copied from the wiki) "Mages cannot be treated like people. They are not like you and me. They are weapons. They have the power to light a city on fire in a fit of pique." Anders proved most of this statement to be true, although I highly disagree with them not being treated as people. 

Yeah I agree with all this. But I also agree with curiousartemis, that I think storywise (if we're looking specifically at tropes), the Order is set up to be "the villain" in DA2. It doesn't have to be in every incarnation, but in the Kirkwall incarnation, there were quite a few villainous things going on (over use of Tranquility, rapes, Alrik and his gang). Villainous things done for the "greater good," which, heh, I guess I suppose could make the whole Order the anti-villain in DA2. 

 

Hmm. And, I suppose Cullen's anti-villainous traits are some of things I really liked about him DA2, before they brushed them under the rug. coughcough. I can easily argue both sides of the "mages can't be treated like people" comment, because -- prejudice or no -- he was also right. 

 

But in some sense... this line of argument lets almost any remotely relateable villain be an anti-villain. Whereas, I could also argue that any well-written villain doesn't think he/she is the villain of his/her own story. By that line of argument, I could even argue that any well-written villain is an anti-villain. Hmm. :strokes invisible beard: More thinky thoughts.

[Cerulione]

Not Cullen but I'm kinda proud of this precious baby shark so well... Please indulge me

 

Just a very small precious baby shark who happens to be ancient elf of Arlathan from this fic. One of Andruil's best hunter, antagonizing young Solas all the way XD

 

 

And yes I know there are errors on how they hold the arrow.

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah I agree with all this. But I also agree with curiousartemis, that I think storywise (if we're looking specifically at tropes), the Order is set up to be "the villain" in DA2. It doesn't have to be in every incarnation, but in the Kirkwall incarnation, there were quite a few villainous things going on (over use of Tranquility, rapes, Alrik and his gang). Villainous things done for the "greater good," which, heh, I guess I suppose could make the whole Order the anti-villain in DA2. 

 

Ehh, no, the Templar Order within Kirkwall at least I would consider a villainous organization, not anti-villain... It is not a good organization. It condones horrific things. It strips the humanity from people. And it isn't doing it for a good reason.

 

Hmm. And, I suppose Cullen's anti-villainous traits are some of things I really liked about him DA2, before they brushed them under the rug. coughcough. I can easily argue both sides of the "mages can't be treated like people" comment, because -- prejudice or no -- he was also right. 

 

Er, well, I don't recall what the exact line is but "Mages can't be treated like people" is a faulty statement... mages ARE people. If you don't treat them as such, you're... well, you're likely justifying doing something awful. So, no, he was not right. Mages are people. Until dogs start showing signs of magic, that's a straight up fact lol

 

By that line of argument, I could even argue that any well-written villain is an anti-villain. Hmm. :strokes invisible beard: More thinky thoughts.

 

Well, probably any well-written villain that the reader can sympathize with could be considered an anti-villain. DA's most successful villains (Loghain, Meredith) have been anti-villains. Their straight up EEEEVIL villains (Corypheus) have been pretty one note and, well, rather crap lol

[Ghost Gal]

Ohhh yaaay, we're talking about this!

 

Lol we don't have to. What you said was just something I like talking about, so I answered. =)

 

First off, I don't like being railroaded into certain races either, so I sympathize. Especially since my favorite races are dwarves and qunari, which doesn't help me with Cullen at all. 

 

I don't blame you. I didn't realize how much I wanted to play a dwarf and Qunari until Tishina mentioned the "lift the race-gating for Cullen" mod. When the game came out I was so excited to play dwarves and Qunari as well as elves, and excited to romance several companions. Several months later, and I just keep playing elves over and over because the only companions I want to romance are Solas and Cullen, and only elven women can officially romance them. 

 

Bully and Beardy don't appeal to me at all (in fact, my Carta dwarf who romanced Bull was hurt when he revealed he slept with serving girls in a way that made them feel special, while she had to agree to getting tied down and pounded like a doornail every night or get dumped), Sera's wretched behavior to an Elf Inquisitor ruined any desire I might have had to romance her (not to mention she laughed and mocked my dwarf's height when they first met, so that's out), and Josephine's romance is just okay, not great. (I like her "lady and knight" "beauty and beast" dynamic with Adaar, but that's about it.)

 

It's nice to feel excited to play them again, and to have my character face all the challenges of the game with someone she actually likes. =)

 

But I also find it interesting how the two love interests who're specifically into elven women are so very different. There's an interesting story there. The elf who Lavellan "should" fall for, who is open to magic and loves the past and is all about dat elven glory, turns out to be the monster used to frighten little elves into going to bed on time. He is dismissive of Dalish culture and you have to push him to accept that there are good, worthwhile things about the Dalish and they're not all going to call him a flat-ear and shoo him out of their aravels. And of course theirs is a beautifully tragic romance, but I just find it fascinating to contrast with Cullen, who is a former Templar... and the Dalish have this huge nasty history with that Order... and yet he's the one who supports your Dalish vows and gives you a happy-ever-after romance.

 

Yeah... the cynical side of me thinks it's BioWare going too far with their "Screw You, Elves!" trope. They set up a world filled with enslaved elves (which is itself often a meta-way to "punish" elves) oppressed by humans, but then turn around and keep piling on more and more "evidence" that not only have the elves "brought it on themselves" (Solas' spoilerific reveals at the end of Trespasser, hello!), but they keep going out of their way to show the elven characters being jerks to each other, but humans being better and kinder to elves than their own kind.

 

I mean, really. We're all told going into the game that most elves are enslaved and exploited by humans, so if you go in as an elf expecting to deal with racism by humans--think again! The human companions and love interests are far more accepting and understanding of your elfiness than any of your elven companions, and your elven love interests are the ones who insult you the most. Cullen the Templar and Cassandra the Seeker (two devout Andrastians and literal holy warriors) are far more accepting of a female and male (respectively) Dalish's culture than Solas and Sera, who're the only two elven companions and who both badmouth the Dalish every chance they get.

 

The pleasant side of me (long buried and rarely seen   ) thinks this is a nice change of pace from the usual "human men break your heart at the end, while elven men are loyal for life" seen in DAO (King Alistair and Zevran) and DA2 (Anders and Fenris). And, like you said, it's a nice reversal of expectations. The anti-magic ex-holy warrior is more accepting of an "elfy" mage elf than the mage elf who loves everything "elfy." Who could have seen that coming?

 

He's human, which is another absolute no-no, especially if your Lavellan wants kids because they will be human too, and that's one more elf "lost" to the humans.

 

Yeah... this is something none of my elves can fully forget when they romance humans. I don't have it in me to roleplay an elf who is apathetic to her people or their plight, and all of them either want kids or always figured someday they'll have kids. I'll admit that's part of why my Lavellan has... considerations when romancing Cullen. It's not a problem per se, but it's a factor that needs to be equated into their relationship. I dealt with my canon city elf falling for Alistair by figuring, "The Joining made her infertile. She's not having kids anyway, so she doesn't have to feel guilty committing to Alistair." Giving Lavellan infertility or kids feels like a cop-out, though, so it's just another conversation they'll have to have. (Maybe they'll adopt.)

 

That's kinda parta why I kinda wish I didn't have to romance him as a Dalish elf. Even a city elf wouldn't have quite so much... cultural baggage seeing an ex-Templar as a Dalish elf. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all the dynamics you and everyone here has mentioned (I also loved roleplaying the slow but steady and organic progression from "Hiss! Templar! Get away from me!" to "You are a good man and I wanna spend the rest of my life married to you," and Cullen being so respectful and understanding about it adds an extra layer of "Awww!" )

 

At the same time, it'd be nice to experience the Cullen romance without any cultural or genetic baggage.   

 

I just think this twist is kinda fascinating, even more so because both romances were added at the end. I wonder if it's something he would agonize over. Like, he doesn't want to feel like he's fetishizing Lavellan, but oh elven ladies are rather lovely, ohhh no shouldn't say that, etc.

 

Lol I often think that too. In my personal little headcanon universe Cullen has a "thing" for exotic-looking elven woman; at least insofar as he fell for the Rivaini-descended Surana (who was visually an elven Isabela) and a white-haired Dalish Keeper's First. I guess one could just chalk it up to "he falls for the player character of that game" or "he happened to fall for two elven mages" but I'd like to think his Kirkwall associates used to tease him about his crush on Surana. (In a DA2 worldstate with Female Amell it reveals that occasionally the other Templars tease him about how he used to love "a mage, of all things," which he vehemently denies, but it's not clear at the time whether he gets flustered because he still loves her or he's just angry with himself for loving a mage. I headcanon it happened anyway with Surana.)

 

Now the fact that he falls for a gal with similar... eccentricities gets him thinking. I headcanon that part of the reason he fell for Surana in the first place was because she was an elf, but then he went through his anti-mage PTSD so he thought, "Those guys are full of it." But then he falls for another exotic-looking elven mage woman, so by the time Inquisition rolls around he starts to think, "Maybe they were onto something!   "

 

I think when I romance him, I'm gonna be a rebel and have a Dalish hunter instead.

 

Woo! Go you!

 

Oh! Oh! You should make her a fiery redheaded archer, and pretend it's like a Merida x Young MacGuffin dynamic. (Willowy but free-spirited archer x tall, stocky, sweet and shy golden-haired warrior.)

 

Oh, I could just see Josephine throwing an archery competition / Scottish-style games as PR for the Inquisition, and they hire some archer to enter the contest to "represent" Clan Lavellan, but then she finds out it's a human so she secretly enters the competition herself.

 

"I am [insertname], first born-descendant of Clan Lavellan, and I'll be shooting for my own clan!"

 

Okay I gotta stop or we'll be here all night.

[CuriousArtemis]

while she had to agree to getting tied down and pounded like a doornail every night or get dumped

 

THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUU I mean yes there are some people who love the Bull romance and bless them! But that this was only one of two choices for some people just... just.... *mutters quietly in the corner*

[Ghost Gal]

THANK YOUUUUUUUUUUU I mean yes there are some people who love the Bull romance and bless them! But that this was only one of two choices for some people just... just.... *mutters quietly in the corner*

 

Yeah... I'm okay with it being an option, but not mandatory. Even then, if the BDSM elements have to be present in the relationship, then I feel like the PC should be able to negotiate with Bull on a dynamic that works for them (like "only occasional BDSM elements" or "I want to be on top occasionally" or "Can we just do vanilla sometimes?" or something), not Bull saying "You let me tie you down and pound into you every time we have relations, or we're not getting together at all." 

 

Even Sera, whom I hold as the standard of non-excellence on how to treat people (sorry Sera fans) agrees not to call you by her first pet name for you if your Inquisitor shows distaste. When you first start the relationship and she's like, "Inky!" If your Inquisitor doesn't like the nickname Inky, she'll go through another two or three she can call you instead, and will call you by the one you like best. She doesn't try to force you with, "I'm calling you Inky, and if you don't like it, tough!" She'll compromise and negotiate with you on that. She'll show respect and regard for your feelings on that matter. But Bull? Nope; there's no compromise or negotiating on that. You agree to his terms ("I'm always on top and mastering/dominating you, and you are always on the bottom/being dominated") or you get the boot.

 

What really baffles me about Bull's romance is how I think the writers seem to have forgotten their target audience. Again, when you ask Bull what he does with serving girls, he says, "The serving girls spend most of their day following orders and feeling unimportant. They need someone who makes them feel special. Lets them... cut loose without repercussions." And I'm thinking, "You just described how most video game players feel in their day-to-day lives, and what they're looking for when they fantasize about playing a hero and romancing an ideal character in a fictional world." I know it's not universal, but I've seen a lot of video game fans/addicts over the years admit that part of what draws them to video games is a sense of control/importance in this fictional world that they're not getting in the real world. (And I'm one of them.) Sure, the fictional character of the Inquisitor "has a lot of responsibilities," and "needs a safe space where they can let someone else be in charge," but we're still real video game players playing this character, and real video game players generally (but not always) want to fantasize about feeling special and being free to cut loose without repercussions.

 

In a way, I think that's part of why Cullen and Solas are so popular where Blackwall and Iron Bull weren't. Okay, basic character and writing flaws for Beardy and Bully aside, Cullen and Solas are the two love interests for "straight" women (and bi women) that have the most romance. Passionate kisses, gentle caresses, longing glances, sweet murmurs, stolen moments, beautiful sweeping landscapes for emotionally intimate confessions, and many times where they describe how kind and wonderful and amazing they think you are, and how their lives changed for the better after they met you, and how their days are a little brighter just by having you in it. With Solas and/or Cullen (some people prefer only one, some love both), you feel beloved and precious; special and appreciated. And if you're gonna fantasize about romancing and/or smooching a fictional character at all, that's a good fantasy to sink into. (I don't know why the writers thought scores of people wanted to fantasize about getting tied up and pounded into relentlessly by a grey giant who initially treats his time with you like a casual business arrangement, but apparently someone has some kinks I don't share...)

 

Okay, I'll get down from my soap box now. No offense to Iron Bull fans--I know he has a lot of charm, and there's obviously a lot to love if you love him yourself. =) I'm just venting my personal frustrations with that romance (I mean, my dwarf woman was really hurt after their first night together, where she asked him if he did the same thing with the serving girls and he said he didn't because the serving girls want to "feel special and appreciated," and she's like, "And you think I don't?"), and speculating as which fantasy itch the Cullen (and Solas) romance scratches that Iron Bull's doesn't.

[vertigomez]

Lol we don't have to. What you said was just something I like talking about, so I answered. =)

Oh no, I wasn't being sarcastic! Sorry if it came off that way. I was genuinely excited, lol.
 

Bully and Beardy don't appeal to me at all (in fact, my Carta dwarf who romanced Bull was hurt when he revealed he slept with serving girls in a way that made them feel special, while she had to agree to getting tied down and pounded like a doornail every night or get dumped), Sera's wretched behavior to an Elf Inquisitor ruined any desire I might have had to romance her (not to mention she laughed and mocked my dwarf's height when they first met, so that's out), and Josephine's romance is just okay, not great. (I like her "lady and knight" "beauty and beast" dynamic with Adaar, but that's about it.)
 
It's nice to feel excited to play them again, and to have my character face all the challenges of the game with someone she actually likes. =)

And I'm over here on the opposite side, because Bull and Sera are two of my favorite characters in the entire franchise.
 

Yeah... the cynical side of me thinks it's BioWare going too far with their "Screw You, Elves!" trope. They set up a world filled with enslaved elves (which is itself often a meta-way to "punish" elves) oppressed by humans, but then turn around and keep piling on more and more "evidence" that not only have the elves "brought it on themselves" (Solas' spoilerific reveals at the end of Trespasser, hello!), but they keep going out of their way to show the elven characters being jerks to each other, but humans being better and kinder to elves than their own kind.
 
I mean, really. We're all told going into the game that most elves are enslaved and exploited by humans, so if you go in as an elf expecting to deal with racism by humans--think again! The human companions and love interests are far more accepting and understanding of your elfiness than any of your elven companions, and your elven love interests are the ones who insult you the most. Cullen the Templar and Cassandra the Seeker (two devout Andrastians and literal holy warriors) are far more accepting of a female and male (respectively) Dalish's culture than Solas and Sera, who're the only two elven companions and who both badmouth the Dalish every chance they get.
 
The pleasant side of me (long buried and rarely seen   ) thinks this is a nice change of pace from the usual "human men break your heart at the end, while elven men are loyal for life" seen in DAO (King Alistair and Zevran) and DA2 (Anders and Fenris). And, like you said, it's a nice reversal of expectations. The anti-magic ex-holy warrior is more accepting of an "elfy" mage elf than the mage elf who loves everything "elfy." Who could have seen that coming?

It's a tough balance. I think what Bioware's ultimately going for is subverting expectations... we heard about Briala in TME and we knew we were getting these elven companions in DAI, a magey elf and a city elf, and I think people were expecting boy-Merrill and blonde-Shianni. Whether it's a good idea narratively speaking is up to individual interpretation, but it just makes me want to steeple my fingers and mutter iiiinteresting under my breath.

Though it's worth noting that all these super understanding, non-racist human love interests are still the minority in Thedas. Interracial relationships are still very taboo. I mean, even Fenris and Merrill stress over how their being elven will affect your relationship, and Gamlen has icky things to say about it. And you can discuss your elvishness with all the LIs in Origins (especially that one conversation with Leliana...).
 

Yeah... this is something none of my elves can fully forget when they romance humans. I don't have it in me to roleplay an elf who is apathetic to her people or their plight, and all of them either want kids or always figured someday they'll have kids. I'll admit that's part of why my Lavellan has... considerations when romancing Cullen. It's not a problem per se, but it's a factor that needs to be equated into their relationship. I dealt with my canon city elf falling for Alistair by figuring, "The Joining made her infertile. She's not having kids anyway, so she doesn't have to feel guilty committing to Alistair." Giving Lavellan infertility or kids feels like a cop-out, though, so it's just another conversation they'll have to have. (Maybe they'll adopt.)

Heh, it all depends on your character's goals! Merrill will discuss what it means to have children with male Hawke, but I think that's the closest we've gotten to that kind of conversation... adoption is always on option as there are (sadly) probably a crapton of elven orphans around, or you could end up with elf-blooded human children. It's something to bite your nails over, certainly. I love it when culture and romance conflict - in fiction, anyway.
 

That's kinda parta why I kinda wish I didn't have to romance him as a Dalish elf. Even a city elf wouldn't have quite so much... cultural baggage seeing an ex-Templar as a Dalish elf. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy all the dynamics you and everyone here has mentioned (I also loved roleplaying the slow but steady and organic progression from "Hiss! Templar! Get away from me!" to "You are a good man and I wanna spend the rest of my life married to you," and Cullen being so respectful and understanding about it adds an extra layer of "Awww!" )
 
At the same time, it'd be nice to experience the Cullen romance without any cultural or genetic baggage.   

Ha, I guess that's the thing with him... you end up being able to come at the relationship from a variety of angles. Circle mage and former Templar? Noble and commoner? Elf and human? Dalish and Andrastian? Big and smol?
 

Oh! Oh! You should make her a fiery redheaded archer, and pretend it's like a Merida x Young MacGuffin dynamic. (Willowy but free-spirited archer x tall, stocky, sweet and shy golden-haired warrior.)
 
Oh, I could just see Josephine throwing an archery competition / Scottish-style games as PR for the Inquisition, and they hire some archer to enter the contest to "represent" Clan Lavellan, but then she finds out it's a human so she secretly enters the competition herself.
 
"I am [insertname], first born-descendant of Clan Lavellan, and I'll be shooting for my own clan!"
 
Okay I gotta stop or we'll be here all night.

OH MY GOD I LOVE THIS. I have always loved Merida and Young MacGuffin, so this is hilarious to me. It's brilliant, because I based my CE Warden on Merida. She wasn't a fan of that arranged marriage business.

[CuriousArtemis]

Yeah I think instead of spending extra time burning the midnight oil to make sure Bull could romance dwarves, I think extra time should've been spent doing the same thing for Cullen. And finish the male recordings for Solas and adjust the slight height difference lol I would've only gotten one that way, but hey it's better than none. And everyone else in this thread would've gotten Cullen. But, sad Bull-loving dwarf fans... dang, guess everyone can't be happy

 

Nevertheless I still scratch my head at Iron Bull being the only non-race-gated, non-gender-gated man in the entire game. (whispers) That should have been Cullen.

 

WHO WAS NOT EVEN INITIALLY A ROMANCE OPTION LIKE WHAT.

[R2s Muse]

Ehh, no, the Templar Order within Kirkwall at least I would consider a villainous organization, not anti-villain... It is not a good organization. It condones horrific things. It strips the humanity from people. And it isn't doing it for a good reason.

 
:shrug: I don't think it's so black and white, even in Kirkwall. But then, I'm repeating myself. I'll just leave it there since I don't want to delve into the templar - mage debate. 

 

Well, probably any well-written villain that the reader can sympathize with could be considered an anti-villain. DA's most successful villains (Loghain, Meredith) have been anti-villains. Their straight up EEEEVIL villains (Corypheus) have been pretty one note and, well, rather crap lol

Yes, this was my point.

[Ghost Gal]

And I'm over here on the opposite side, because Bull and Sera are two of my favorite characters in the entire franchise.

 

And Bull is my boyfriend's favorite DAI character and Sera is my best friend's favorite DAI romance. I understand.  

 

It's a tough balance. I think what Bioware's ultimately going for is subverting expectations... we heard about Briala in TME and we knew we were getting these elven companions in DAI, a magey elf and a city elf, and I think people were expecting boy-Merrill and blonde-Shianni. Whether it's a good idea narratively speaking is up to individual interpretation, but it just makes me want to steeple my fingers and mutter iiiinteresting under my breath.

Though it's worth noting that all these super understanding, non-racist human love interests are still the minority in Thedas. Interracial relationships are still very taboo. I mean, even Fenris and Merrill stress over how their being elven will affect your relationship, and Gamlen has icky things to say about it. And you can discuss your elvishness with all the LIs in Origins (especially that one conversation with Leliana...).

 

I guess that's just another problem with BioWare's "show verses tell" policy.

 

While they like to subvert expectations, they also need various characters/companions to "represent" the groups they're from. For example, in DAO Alistair represents Ferelden culture and Templar worldviews (at least suspicion of mages), Leliana represents Orlais and Chantry religious views, Sten represents the Qunari, Dog represents the Mabari (a cultural treasure in Ferelden), etc. In DA2 Anders represents Andrastian Circle mages, Merrill represents Dalish (mage) culture, Isabela represents Rivain, Fenris represents non-magic Tevinter slaves, Varric to surface dwarf culture, etc.

 

The trend continued in DAI, but I think they take it for granted that people have played or are aware of previous games, because while some characters still "represent" their home group (like Dorian to Tevinter), BioWare also makes them the exception of that home group. Again, Dorian to Tevinter, Bull to the Qunari, Sera to city elves, etc.

 

In the case of elves, I think this creates a narrative imbalance since we're told one thing of elves but we're constantly shown another. We don't encounter scores of important elven characters everywhere the way we encounter scores of significant human characters (Alistair being the "exception" to the Templars is fine because we run into plenty of zealous Templars; Leliana having unorthodox views for a devout Chantry sister is fine because we encounter plenty of orthodox Chantry sisters and mothers) so it can be hard to swallow what we're told about elves compared to what we're told about other humans.

 

Being told, "Elves are abused," "Most humans are prejudiced against elves," and "Elves typically stick together," but, apart from one or two side characters in side quests that are easy to miss, constantly being shown elves living well, being treated well, humans being kind to elves, and elven companions being dismissive and judgmental of their people can make it seem like elven characters' claims about their circumstances are lies. I mean, Sera gives credence to all elf haters who say, "Elves just stand around barefoot whining about oppression when they're just too lazy to make something of themselves. See? Sera's an elf and she said so!"

 

Again, "show verses tell" impacts how a story is received.

 

Heh, it all depends on your character's goals! Merrill will discuss what it means to have children with male Hawke, but I think that's the closest we've gotten to that kind of conversation... adoption is always on option as there are (sadly) probably a crapton of elven orphans around, or you could end up with elf-blooded human children. It's something to bite your nails over, certainly. I love it when culture and romance conflict - in fiction, anyway. 

 

Yeah, Merrill mentions it once in a quick throwaway line, then it's never brought up again. 

 

Feynriel is a pretty good example of how human/elf children feel, being brought up knowing they're part human and part elf but don't fully belong in either. Then again, his particular circumstances were that his Dalish mother abandoned her clan to marry his human merchant father, who abandoned her soon after, so he longs to be accepted by his father and his mother's people alike. (Then again, he's a mage revealed Dreamwalker, so it makes sense he would want his mother's people rather than the Andrastian humans he can "pass" as--they would let him be free instead of locking him up in the Gallows.) I think TME reveals that Michel de Chevin is the opposite--his mom was also an elf who raised him alone, but he prefers his human heritage and tries to "pass" as fully human, and is openly racist against elves and is ashamed of his elven heritage.

 

Anyway, I don't have it in me to create such an elven character who is 100% okay with discarding her elven culture and discontinuing her elven heritage. Even if one of my elven gals loves her human hubby so much she can barely stand it and she loves her human children so much her heart bursts just holding them, part of her will always wish her children could be elven, and then she'll feel guilty for feeling that way, then try not to show it because she doesn't want to upset her human hubby or child, and then the guilt will just eat her alive. Or, she would feel she has to compensate by thinking of the child, "not as a human, but an elf in human skin," but that's not healthy either. Not to mention it might cause problems trying to treat her child like an elf (singing elven lullabies, telling elven stories, teaching them elven traditions, etc) since the human father would think, "Yeah, I know our child is part elf and it's both of your heritage and that's important... but s/he's my child too. S/he is human too. We can't neglect his/her human heritage." And then part of her will worry that if her child gets too big a taste of how awesome it is being human, s/he'll reject being elven. (Turning out like Michel de Chevin would be my elven gals' worst nightmare for her kids.) And then there's the fact that the elven community will never fully accept a half-elf human child--it's just a mess. There's always worries and considerations.

 

Even adoption is not 100% stress-free, since you get into the pros and cons of birth-children verses adopted children, and will both partners be okay with adopted elven children like the elven mom but no human kids for the human dad? Then what if birth control fails and they end up raising their birth kids beside their adopted kids? Then you you get into considerations of birth children raised beside adopted children, some kids being elves like the mom but some kids being human like the dad, and it's just a lot to think about.

 

OH MY GOD I LOVE THIS. I have always loved Merida and Young MacGuffin, so this is hilarious to me.   It's brilliant, because I based my CE Warden on Merida. She wasn't a fan of that arranged marriage business.

 

LOL glad to be of service!   

 

I like using characters and fictional couples I like as base models for my own characters and romances. For example, I loosely modeled the mage Lavellan who romanced Cullen after Aisling from The Secret of Kells, and her romance with Cullen loosely (very loosely) resembles Aisling's friendship with Brendan. (A white, pagan "forest fairy" who breathes magic and befriends with a kind church boy.)

 

Yeah I think instead of spending extra time burning the midnight oil to make sure Bull could romance dwarves, I think extra time should've been spent doing the same thing for Cullen. And finish the male recordings for Solas and adjust the slight height difference lol I would've only gotten one that way, but hey it's better than none. And everyone else in this thread would've gotten Cullen. But, sad Bull-loving dwarf fans... dang, guess everyone can't be happy

 

Nevertheless I still scratch my head at Iron Bull being the only non-race-gated, non-gender-gated man in the entire game. (whispers) That should have been Cullen.

 

WHO WAS NOT EVEN INITIALLY A ROMANCE OPTION LIKE WHAT.

 

Yeah... I don't know what they were thinking.

 

I guess Iron Bull was the lead animation director's favorite character (forget his name), so I guess I can understand why he would pull out all the stops, but really... HOW, in three years of production, did so many people come together day after day, week after week and say, "Yeah, the ladies (and gentlemen) will totally want Iron Bull/Blackwall more than they'll ever want Cullen." Really? How did so many people over three years get together and say, "That's a good idea"?

[Cerulione]

Yeah... I don't know what they were thinking.

 

I guess Iron Bull was the lead animation director's favorite character (forget his name), so I guess I can understand why he would pull out all the stops, but really... HOW, in three years of production, did so many people come together day after day, week after week and say, "Yeah, the ladies (and gentlemen) will totally want Iron Bull/Blackwall more than they'll ever want Cullen." Really? How did so many people over three years get together and say, "That's a good idea"?

 

They probably don't want to make another romance where the guy happen to be good looking White Knight In Shining Armour type, with a mature, fulfilling and beautiful relationship that is both sincere and honest. You know, the relationship many people actually wish for IRL. Idk.

 

I think that they are really afraid of putting that kind of story and think that a BDSM & a huge treachery story (BW's) to be more interesting. That's why they didn't put Cullen in the first choice until the 1 year extension and then it's more or less like "heyhooo sex scene between Qunari & Dwarf will be a challenge in animation POV and LET'S DO IT FOR CHALLENGE SAKE" mentality I kinda feeling from the dev's side. Like, why did they choose BW romance over Cullen's since the beginning? Why?

 

Although talking about story, in term of treachery Solas isn't better but for some reason I truly like Solas when with BW it's rather... Well... IdK his romance kinda...

 

Well that's my 2 cents.

[Cerulione]

 

LOL glad to be of service!   

 

I like using characters and fictional couples I like as base models for my own characters and romances. For example, I loosely modeled the mage Lavellan who romanced Cullen after Aisling from The Secret of Kells, and her romance with Cullen loosely (very loosely) resembles Aisling's friendship with Brendan. (A white, pagan "forest fairy" who breathes magic and befriends with a kind church boy.)

 

Gosh I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!! And yes I can see the parallel. Brendan definitely has a rebel's streak on him, as what he does to find the berries. Kinda see Cullen in that situation by quitting the templar order

Although Cullen is still more Lawful Good though, Brendan is a bit more... less lawful IMO. But that's an interesting chemistry anyway. Aisling is a character who sees beauty no one had seen for long time since the villagers are burdened by their fear of the Vikings in the movie, and Aisling is not concerned and she does sees colours & beauty where the villagers only see stark grey wall. How is the dynamic of your Inquisitor (Revassan?) with Cullenmance?

 

PS: oooh our quizzies nearly have the same name! Mine's Revas but that's a Solavellan Lavellan.

[CuriousArtemis]

(Edited first part of post... talked to her privately and twas no big deal xD yay)

 

Yeah... I don't know what they were thinking.

 

I guess Iron Bull was the lead animation director's favorite character (forget his name), so I guess I can understand why he would pull out all the stops, but really... HOW, in three years of production, did so many people come together day after day, week after week and say, "Yeah, the ladies (and gentlemen) will totally want Iron Bull/Blackwall more than they'll ever want Cullen." Really? How did so many people over three years get together and say, "That's a good idea"?

 

John Epler, I think?

 

Well Bull's romance is going to appeal (I think) to a small group of people. Which doesn't invalidate it at all, but makes it odd that it's the only non-gated male option. And Blackwall is so ancillary as a character and his overall story just so... undeveloped? It almost seems like he was the add-on romance and not Cullen or Solas.

 

I'm still baffled that Solas and Cullen were add-ons. Cullen seems like such the obvious un-gated option. And Solas... playing the game without romancing Solas is like missing out on such a crucial connection to the story it just BOGGLES!!! 

 

They probably don't want to make another romance where the guy happen to be good looking White Knight In Shining Armour type, with a mature, fulfilling and beautiful relationship that is both sincere and honest. You know, the relationship many people actually wish for IRL. Idk.

 

Yeah because Alistair was soooo unpopular (Agreed lol)

 

Well, ultimately they claim that the characters who get romances are for story reasons and not to please fans. So like as each writer is working on their character they may at some point come to the lead writer and say "I would like to make this a romance and here's how." 

 

Solas's writer already had Bull and Sera as romances, and if they were thinking of Solas as a simple villain it might not have occurred to anyone until the end to make him a romance.

 

And Cullen's writer was new, so.

[R2s Muse]

 

Well, ultimately they claim that the characters who get romances are for story reasons and not to please fans. So like as each writer is working on their character they may at some point come to the lead writer and say "I would like to make this a romance and here's how." 

 

Solas's writer already had Bull and Sera as romances, and if they were thinking of Solas as a simple villain it might not have occurred to anyone until the end to make him a romance.

 

And Cullen's writer was new, so.

Yeah, I think that's an important perspective to keep in mind. Altho the romances are hugely important to some of us (like me), the story comes first and frankly... many of the devs seem honestly annoyed by the inclusion of romances anyway. I remain curious, however, why Mike Laidlaw insisted that Cullen's racegating, for example, was for story reasons when all evidence points to the contrary. Maybe there used to be story attached to the decision that was later... cut. Or only existed in the writers' room discussions, like his insistence that most Cullen fans are fans because of the Cullen/Amell/Surana storyline.

 

Of course, hindsight is 20/20, and it seems NOW like a no brainer that the Cullen and Solas romances would be popular. But recall the negative fan response to Solas's looks when his in-game model was first revealed (something along the lines of 'WTF?', independent of our ignorance that he's the bad guy). Or the universal fandom hatred of Cullen before DA:I came out (yes it's hard to imagine now that we were the ridiculed few). Neither would seem like a sure thing a priori. 

[Cerulione]

(Edited first part of post... talked to her privately and twas no big deal xD yay)

 

 

John Epler, I think?

 

Well Bull's romance is going to appeal (I think) to a small group of people. Which doesn't invalidate it at all, but makes it odd that it's the only non-gated male option. And Blackwall is so ancillary as a character and his overall story just so... undeveloped? It almost seems like he was the add-on romance and not Cullen or Solas.

 

I'm still baffled that Solas and Cullen were add-ons. Cullen seems like such the obvious un-gated option. And Solas... playing the game without romancing Solas is like missing out on such a crucial connection to the story it just BOGGLES!!! 

 

 

Yeah because Alistair was soooo unpopular (Agreed lol)

 

Well, ultimately they claim that the characters who get romances are for story reasons and not to please fans. So like as each writer is working on their character they may at some point come to the lead writer and say "I would like to make this a romance and here's how." 

 

Solas's writer already had Bull and Sera as romances, and if they were thinking of Solas as a simple villain it might not have occurred to anyone until the end to make him a romance.

 

And Cullen's writer was new, so.

Idk really, AListair was written by Master Gaider himself. Like he is his project all along with Marric & Fiona, Theirin Family Project. And they already did Alistair, so well... Idk. Although they were ready to not make Bull a LI before Epler worked overnights for the animation right?

 

Solas, from what I hear Patrick Weekes talked about him, is a difficult character from the start. Difficult but he loves Solas, Weekes I mean. Apparently that's a character who was re-written so many time and strengthened everytime and ultimately Weekes kinda feels like, well, since we do have an "anti-villain" who do evil things to do what he think is right, as well makes a tragic LI.

 

Funny how my big fave 3 (after playing Cullen & Solas) & watching all romances from YT,  are Solas - Cullen - Cass. In that order. 2 of them are additional one. And seeing how many people actually like the limited content of Solas' that leaves lots of interpretation...

[CuriousArtemis]

Of course, hindsight is 20/20, and it seems NOW like a no brainer that the Cullen and Solas romances would be popular. But recall the negative fan response to Solas's looks when his in-game model was first revealed (something along the lines of 'WTF?', independent of our ignorance that he's the bad guy).

 

omg that part is so true, and... and... I have to hang my head and admit I was one of them man I was really disappointed they decided to not go with the mohawke ponytail look. And c'mon he did look very Nosferatu-ish on that one Skyhold concept art piece lol 

 

I think it wasn't until a month away that I was hoping Solas wouldn't be the bi option (I was convinced he would be). Then after only a few reveals were left, I started getting excited for Solas. Then Solas didn't happen so I crossed my fingers for Blackwall. 

 

okay I need to go sit in a corner and rock into a fetal position, THANKS R2 FOR BRINGING ALL THESE FEELINGS BACK   

 

Funny how my big fave 3 (after playing Cullen & Solas) & watching all romances from YT,  are Solas - Cullen - Cass. In that order. 2 of them are additional one. And seeing how many people actually like the limited content of Solas' that leaves lots of interpretation...

 

I thought the Solas content was great. I had no problems with it! And I had played Bull romance before that, which has a lot of content. But quality over quantity. Of course, a lot of quality writing did go into Bull's romance, no doubt, I just mean for me personally. I was happy with Solas's romance and didn't notice that scanty number of cut scenes just because I enjoyed the relationship so much.

[R2s Muse]

omg that part is so true, and... and... I have to hang my head and admit I was one of them man I was really disappointed they decided to not go with the mohawke ponytail look. And c'mon he did look very Nosferatu-ish on that one Skyhold concept art piece lol 

 

I think it wasn't until a month away that I was hoping Solas wouldn't be the bi option (I was convinced he would be). Then after only a few reveals were left, I started getting excited for Solas. Then Solas didn't happen so I crossed my fingers for Blackwall. 

 

okay I need to go sit in a corner and rock into a fetal position, THANKS R2 FOR BRINGING ALL THESE FEELINGS BACK   

 

 

I thought the Solas content was great. I had no problems with it! And I had played Bull romance before that, which has a lot of content. But quality over quantity. Of course, a lot of quality writing did go into Bull's romance, no doubt, I just mean for me personally. I was happy with Solas's romance and didn't notice that scanty number of cut scenes just because I enjoyed the relationship so much.

And yet... he was so smokin in the war table concept art. :shrug: Looking at WoT and the art book, it seems that his look went through many, many iterations. And, I guess all those iterations happened in parallel with the writing. So I could see the devs being cagey about a Solas romance, given that it could have gone any which way. That remains the biggest surprise. 

[thats1evildude]

Digital Cullen.

http://celticwolfwal...ander-534218782

[Ghost Gal]

They probably don't want to make another romance where the guy happen to be good looking White Knight In Shining Armour type, with a mature, fulfilling and beautiful relationship that is both sincere and honest. You know, the relationship many people actually wish for IRL. Idk.

 

I think you made a really good point.

 

BioWare has gotten some flak for reusing character archetypes, especially for DA romances. For example, how human male love interests had been golden-haired charmers (Alistair and Anders), and elven male love interests had been commitment-phobic former slaves who became loyal for life after they overcame their issues (Zevran and Fenris).

 

They probably wanted to try something different this time, but... with Cullen's and Solas' unprecidented popularity (despite being the most gender and race-gated), it seems like some of these formulas are tried and true for a reason.

 

 

I think that they are really afraid of putting that kind of story and think that a BDSM & a huge treachery story (BW's) to be more interesting. That's why they didn't put Cullen in the first choice until the 1 year extension and then it's more or less like "heyhooo sex scene between Qunari & Dwarf will be a challenge in animation POV and LET'S DO IT FOR CHALLENGE SAKE" mentality I kinda feeling from the dev's side. Like, why did they choose BW romance over Cullen's since the beginning? Why?

 

I think you make a really good point. I can see where these would look good on paper or early storyboards, but I think some of these ideas or intentions got lost in production.

 

For Iron Bull, I feel like one of the problems is he was marketed and introduced as a fun, joking, boisterous, good-natured, likable, charismatic ladies' (and gentlemen's) man. Unfortunately, little of this shows up in the actual romance. At least not initially. He treats the beginning of your relationship with all the bored indifference of a business transaction (not romantic, fun, or sexy for many), and of course sets strict sexual guidelines that force you to accept BDSM terms (with him always in the dominant/master position and you always in the bottom/submissive position) or get the boot, and there's very little love/fondness/tenderness until much later in the relationship. Kind of like Sera's personality flaws, a lot of people were turned off long before they could reach that point.

 

Blackwall... I see that so much effort and passion was put into his story, character arc, and romance. And it's a good story... problem is I've heard a lot of people describe Blackwall as boring and underwhelming. I've seen a lot of people say, "This would be such a passionate, evocative role-play experience if I cared about the character." I think his story would be more popular if he was a more popular character; but somewhere between the character's inception and the final stage of development, whatever it was that was supposed to grab a large audience was lost. My best guess is they focused so much on his character arc that they forgot to make him the kind of character we like spending time with. A journey is only fun if you enjoy the company of the person you're traveling with; if you find the person annoying, boring, or forgettable, the journey can seem like a long slog or a forgettable experience.

 

It's hard to know what characters will appeal to people and which ones will get passed over (otherwise all stories and characters would be equally excellent), but that's my best guess.

 

Although talking about story, in term of treachery Solas isn't better but for some reason I truly like Solas when with BW it's rather... Well... IdK his romance kinda... 

 

EDIT: To each their own.

 

Gosh I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!! And yes I can see the parallel. Brendan definitely has a rebel's streak on him, as what he does to find the berries. Kinda see Cullen in that situation by quitting the templar order

Although Cullen is still more Lawful Good though, Brendan is a bit more... less lawful IMO. But that's an interesting chemistry anyway. Aisling is a character who sees beauty no one had seen for long time since the villagers are burdened by their fear of the Vikings in the movie, and Aisling is not concerned and she does sees colours & beauty where the villagers only see stark grey wall. How is the dynamic of your Inquisitor (Revassan?) with Cullenmance?

 

PS: oooh our quizzies nearly have the same name! Mine's Revas but that's a Solavellan Lavellan.

 

Lol Glad you like the movie, and that you got the reference.

 

Yeah, I know Cullen is more straight-laced and rule-abiding, but then again he does have a bit of a chaotic streak. He kept the good-luck charm his brother gave him for years (even though Templars aren't supposed to carry such trinkets), stood up to Meredith when he realized she went too far in Kirkwall, and left the Templar Order for the Inquisition when he realized they lost their way. He might not have have his head in the clouds like Brendan, but he has it in him to break away from tradition when he feels another way can do more. (Much like how Brendan defied his uncle and helped Aidan with the book when he realized the book could do more to bring people hope than the wall.)

 

Anyway, the Lavellan I have to romance Cullen is Adahlen (the elven word for "forest"), a pale, white-haired, emerald-eyed, green Mythal-vallaslined Dalish mage who most often chooses the "funny" dialogue options. I headcanon that she met and befriended a Chantry boy when she was a kid (hence the reason she would be open to romancing a human ex-Templar as an adult), and they spent nearly a whole summer seeing each other and playing in the forest, until his villagers learned her people were there and drove them out. Throughout her adolescence her clan visited and traded with many villages, and she saw that sometimes the Dalish and human got along well enough, until someone who stirred up old fears, prejudices, and grudges ruined the harmony and forced her people to move on. While she believes in tradition and cultural preservation as much as any Dalish, she also wants a world where humans and elves can live in peace rather than attacking and fleeing from each other in mistrust. Her relationship with Cullen reflects that idealistic philosophy. (I had Cullen save her Clan and had them wind up in Wycombe. Then they had a Chantry wedding with her Dalish vows. It was great!)

 

Revassan is the newest Lavellan I made, who also romanced Solas. (Kind of like the Dalish mottos Vir Assan, "way of the arrow," Vir Bor'assan, "way of the bow," and Vir Adahlen, "way of the forest," her name means "way to freedom," and that's what she wants for her people above all else.)

[duckley]

Hmm I wonder...

Religion is very important to Cullen. I would think that any serious relationship for him would be with someone who shares the same religious beliefs. This could explain the race gating no? Wanting to be with someone of the same religion doesn't make you racist... does it? The above notwithstanding, perhaps the other two races are too far of a stretch religiously?

[CuriousArtemis]

Hmm I wonder...

Religion is very important to Cullen. I would think that any serious relationship for him would be with someone who shares the same religious beliefs. This could explain the race gating no? Wanting to be with someone of the same religion doesn't make you racist... does it? The above notwithstanding, perhaps the other two races are too far of a stretch religiously?

 

o.O Dalish are not Andrastian.

 

Also I disagree with this... "any serious relationship for him would be with someone who shares the same religious beliefs." I guess I'm just a romantic and feel love doesn't always work that way. You love who you love. Also as far as Cullen is concerned, I would think respecting his partner (and being respected) would be more important. So long as they can understand and respect one another's beliefs, I think they could live in love and harmony.

 

EDIT: p.s. You can confess to Andrastianism as a dwarf or qunari.