138743 réponses à ce sujet

[R2s Muse]

Exactly. If they stuck with what they did in the vanilla game where they foreshadowed with the scene between Solas and Flemeth, I'd be fine if they went a new PC since the Inquisitor's story was over, literally looking into the sunset(possibly with their love). But then Trespasser happened and dragged us back into the middle of it and made it extremely personal between the Inquisitor and Solas on a number of levels, only to drop that. 

Yeah, I have to agree. They far more easily could have let the Inquisitor ride off into the sunset with her hot former templar boyfriend if ... <ahem, gets trailer voiceover guy voice on> Solas... hadn't made it... PERSONAL! Dun dun DUN. 

 

Now, that all being said, I bet the Inquisitor will show up, like Hawke did in DA:I, and will be our Supreme Leader, sending  us off into the massive game of chess against the World's Hottest Elvhen God. So I reckon the IQ will be like Charlie, writing us letters and talking through a magic mirror, and we'll be his Angels. 

[The Elder King]

That would be very cool, but I would be highly surprised if their goal was to stop making Dragon Age games. Tie up old PC loose ends? Sure. Kill off old PCs to ensure that? Even better. But they want to keep telling stories. 
 
This is what makes the build up of Trespasser and the Solas Big Bad even odder. It's like they've set up DA:I Part 1 and Part 2. Hmm. 

The fact that we have both the main game and Trespasser ending with cliffhangers on Solas' next role as the main antagonist lead to that thinking, though it's the unfortunate consequence of not have been able to include Trespasser in DAI.
In the end though, all this is the something they plotted since the end of DAO. Solas' reveal was still probably around the original Inquisition plot before they decided to to DA2 first, where they started dropping hints on elven role and the Flemeth connection with elves.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Now, that all being said, I bet the Inquisitor will show up, like Hawke did in DA:I, and will be our Supreme Leader, sending  us off into the massive game of chess against the World's Hottest Elvhen God. So I reckon the IQ will be like Charlie, writing us letters and talking through a magic mirror, and we'll be his Angels. 

Please no. I already had to suffer seeing Bioware butcher my Hawke. I don't want to see the same happen to the Inquisitor too. 

 

I'm still hoping for a dual protagonist situation. Most of the game you can be the new person, but in parts of the game you play the Inquisitor. 

[SamaraDraven]

That would be very cool, but I would be highly surprised if their goal was to stop making Dragon Age games. Tie up old PC loose ends? Sure. Kill off old PCs to ensure that? Even better. But they want to keep telling stories.

This is what makes the build up of Trespasser and the Solas Big Bad even odder. It's like they've set up DA:I Part 1 and Part 2. Hmm.

If they were concerned about the viability of the franchise long term, and its ability to generate enough profit over cost, they might have the idea of the day they pack it in on the brain. The games are getting bigger and more expensive. It's hard to go backwards in those respects. I hope it goes on for a while yet but they could be thinking of how to end it when the time comes. The Solas issue could be part of that setup. The games have all been linked in one fashion or another and there are a lot of parallels in all of Thedas's codex lore between its different peoples. Plus the age of dragons will end at some point. The devs might look to beginning again with a new age and making a new epic storyline that's still within the 'verse but completely different from the Dragon era.

[thats1evildude]

Do you think the plan is really to make Solas the evil rival in the next game?

"Evil" might be a stretch, but yes.

[R2s Muse]

The fact that we have both the main game and Trespasser ending with cliffhangers on Solas' next role as the main antagonist lead to that thinking, though it's the unfortunate consequence of not have been able to include Trespasser in DAI.
In the end though, all this is the something they plotted since the end of DAO. Solas' reveal was still probably around the original Inquisition plot before they decided to to DA2 first, where they started dropping hints on elven role and the Flemeth connection with elves.

Good point. But this points even more to the DA:I Part 1 and Part 2 idea, because apparently DG said that they dropped about half their content ideas for DA:I. So if they reserved the second half for DA4... it could end up feeling even more like a continuation. Solas as Pantheon Shaking Real-But-Not-Real Elvhen God in the Flesh, bent on inadvertent world destruction, is a pretty big set up. Makes sense it would take some time to pay off. Just doesn't make sense to keep handing off that pay off to new protagonists, like a Thedosian Relay. :/

[R2s Muse]

If they were concerned about the viability of the franchise long term, and its ability to generate enough profit over cost, they might have the idea of the day they pack it in on the brain. The games are getting bigger and more expensive. It's hard to go backwards in those respects. I hope it goes on for a while yet but they could be thinking of how to end it when the time comes. The Solas issue could be part of that setup. The games have all been linked in one fashion or another and there are a lot of parallels in all of Thedas's codex lore between its different peoples. Plus the age of dragons will end at some point. The devs might look to beginning again with a new age and making a new epic storyline that's still within the 'verse but completely different from the Dragon era.

Could be. And, I've wondered about this, given some dev comments. But realistically... Dragon Age finally made it big with Inquisition. I'd be surprised if they'r'e ready to pack it in quite so soon. MLaw only joked about the five game plan, but I'd expect them to do at least 5. 

[Ghost Gal]

Good point. But this points even more to the DA:I Part 1 and Part 2 idea, because apparently DG said that they dropped about half their content ideas for DA:I. So if they reserved the second half for DA4... it could end up feeling even more like a continuation. Solas as Pantheon Shaking Real-But-Not-Real Elvhen God in the Flesh, bent on inadvertent world destruction, is a pretty big set up. Makes sense it would take some time to pay off. Just doesn't make sense to keep handing off that pay off to new protagonists, like a Thedosian Relay. :/

 

This is why I hope the Inquisitor comes back, either as a dual protagonist or a major NPC, who helps with the final confrontation with Solas. (Especially a Lavellan who romanced him.)

 

Otherwise, Dragon Age is just a series of conflict musical chairs. Major villains are set up with one protagonist then dealt with by another; one who has no personal investment in them. Corypheus is set up with Hawke, then dealt with by the Inquisitor. Solas is set up with the Inquisitor, then dealt with by the next protagonist.

 

Hawke even kept saying in his/her sordid cameo "Corypheus is my responsibility," but then they just help out at Adamant and disappear from the game. I don't personally like Hawke, but I can see where fans of the character would be let down. I'd also be REALLY disappointed if BioWare spent so much time establishing the Inquisitor's relationship (or lackthereof) with Solas, culminating in their final meeting before becoming enemies where the Inquisitor vows to stop/redeem him in Trespasser, just to have someone else who doesn't know him from Bob be his grand rival next game and be the one to stop him.

[SamaraDraven]

Could be. And, I've wondered about this, given some dev comments. But realistically... Dragon Age finally made it big with Inquisition. I'd be surprised if they'r'e ready to pack it in quite so soon. MLaw only joked about the five game plan, but I'd expect them to do at least 5.

They did make it big with Inquisition but they might have been hedging their bets just in case. Considering the budget spent on it, it's good that it was so successful. They may worry they can't keep it up. Or want to start anew on something they can try to succeed with for less. I dunno. I certainly hope it goes on awhile. I just wouldn't be surprised if they were tying all the major stories together for then end even if it's still a couple of games away.

[VivainaDX]

"Evil" might be a stretch, but yes.

Here is my problem with that. The further the story continues, it seems that Thedas is becoming more and more divided by by predjudical values. ie: all mages are bad, all quinari are bad, all Templars are bad, all elves are bad, all humans are bad, all Tevinters are bad...etc.  When the hell are the people gonna pull their heads out of their butts and realize that it's their problems are caused by their mutual hate/distrust of traditional steriotypes.

 

Here you have Solas, a brillant ancient elven mage who carries ancient knowledge and who can become a powerful ally against all the bs and now he's going to become a rival/enemy, that's such a waste of a good character, when a way to recruit his experience would be more logical. Instead of battling him and Mythal, wouldn't it be better to be battling the enemies they were fighting? The ones who tore down Arlethan.

 

There is so much back story that can be developed that explains elven lore, the blight, past events that have thus far only have a one sided view of events, what if there were things happening in the back ground nobody knew about? Things working for and against Thedas. 

 

It just seems to me that there is a darker hand guiding events, darker than Solas and Flemeth, the Quinari, the mages, the Venatori, the Templars and so on, and it has a firm grip on Thedas through the Chantrys, the blight, the elven lore, the national leaders and the leaders of the Templar Order, the Seekers, the Promisers..etc. It supercedes the Tevinter Magisters that brought the blight and it wants to see the veil come down so it can infect Thedas.

 

Maybe I'm just talking through my *bleep*, I'm just a player of the game and have no idea what the writers have in store, but I'm concerned that the game is going to turn into a podium for justifying the encouragment of prejudices and stereotyping.

[R2s Muse]

They did make it big with Inquisition but they might have been hedging their bets just in case. Considering the budget spent on it, it's good that it was so successful. They may worry they can't keep it up. Or want to start anew on something they can try to succeed with for less. I dunno. I certainly hope it goes on awhile. I just wouldn't be surprised if they were tying all the major stories together for then end even if it's still a couple of games away.

Keep in mind, tho, that part of their investment in DA:I was building the frostbite infrastructure. Investment on the front end so that they can now use it. My hope is that the next game will be less "wow, pretty, another really detailed desert" and more ":cracks knuckles: now lets get to some story telling!" But of course... the game will likely run its course at some point. Dragon Age: Andromeda? 

[DreamerM]

The Inquisitor remains in constant contact with Dorian via message crystal, and since Dorian is all-but-guarenteed to be a major part of the next game, a Levelllan who romanced Solas is going to be getting updates... I imagine from that dark room where she drinks, cries a lot, and waits for someone to invent therapy. She's been though a lot, people.

 

So yeah, I think it's safe to say the Inquisitor is going to at least make a cameo when the time comes to confront Solas for good, especially if she was in a romance with him. She may or may not be "The Inquisitor" anymore, but she's definitely still got skin in the game, and unfinished business is unfinished business, whether she wants to kill or save him.

What will ****** me off is if in the next game, Solas is dealt with early on and replaced with a more conventional threat, like the Blight or the Rift or Corytheus. One of those "kill everything that moves" villains...and granted, that is his plan, but still, he's not a puppy kicker, and I mean a real puppy kicker.

[R2s Muse]

Here is my problem with that. The further the story continues, it seems that Thedas is becoming more and more divided by by predjudical values. ie: all mages are bad, all quinari are bad, all Templars are bad, all elves are bad, all humans are bad, all Tevinters are bad...etc.  When the hell are the people gonna pull their heads out of their butts and realize that it's their problems are caused by their mutual hate/distrust of traditional steriotypes.

 

Here you have Solas, a brillant ancient elven mage who carries ancient knowledge and who can become a powerful ally against all the bs and now he's going to become a rival/enemy, that's such a waste of a good character, when a way to recruit his experience would be more logical. Instead of battling him and Mythal, wouldn't it be better to be battling the enemies they were fighting? The ones who tore down Arlethan.

 

There is so much back story that can be developed that explains elven lore, the blight, past events that have thus far only have a one sided view of events, what if there were things happening in the back ground nobody knew about? Things working for and against Thedas. 

 

It just seems to me that there is a darker hand guiding events, darker than Solas and Flemeth, the Quinari, the mages, the Venatori, the Templars and so on, and it has a firm grip on Thedas through the Chantrys, the blight, the elven lore, the national leaders and the leaders of the Templar Order, the Seekers, the Promisers..etc. It supercedes the Tevinter Magisters that brought the blight and it wants to see the veil come down so it can infect Thedas.

 

Maybe I'm just talking through my *bleep*, I'm just a player of the game and have no idea what the writers have in store, but I'm concerned that the game is going to turn into a podium for justifying the encouragment of prejudices and stereotyping.

I.... hmmm, I guess I just don't see this at all. All three games have tried to explore the gray areas in these issues, in between the stereotypes, to varying levels of success. But I wouldn't say the whole world/game is casting all the things as bad. Solas, least of all. 

 

And, I think they're making brilliant use of his character. As the villain, with a complicated and conflicted rationale, he gets new life as a character. I think the alternative is more of a waste, since otherwise, he would be unlikely to feature in future games, outside of a random codex letter, maybe a cameo if we're lucky. 

[VivainaDX]

Keep in mind, tho, that part of their investment in DA:I was building the frostbite infrastructure. Investment on the front end so that they can now use it. My hope is that the next game will be less "wow, pretty, another really detailed desert" and more ":cracks knuckles: now lets get to some story telling!" But of course... the game will likely run its course at some point. Dragon Age: Andromeda? 

It was beautiful, wasn't it? They did a wonderful job.

[SamaraDraven]

Here is my problem with that. The further the story continues, it seems that Thedas is becoming more and more divided by by predjudical values. ie: all mages are bad, all quinari are bad, all Templars are bad, all elves are bad, all humans are bad, all Tevinters are bad...etc. When the hell are the people gonna pull their heads out of their butts and realize that it's their problems are caused by their mutual hate/distrust of traditional steriotypes.

Here you have Solas, a brillant ancient elven mage who carries ancient knowledge and who can become a powerful ally against all the bs and now he's going to become a rival/enemy, that's such a waste of a good character, when a way to recruit his experience would be more logical. Instead of battling him and Mythal, wouldn't it be better to be battling the enemies they were fighting? The ones who tore down Arlethan.

There is so much back story that can be developed that explains elven lore, the blight, past events that have thus far only have a one sided view of events, what if there were things happening in the back ground nobody knew about? Things working for and against Thedas.

It just seems to me that there is a darker hand guiding events, darker than Solas and Flemeth, the Quinari, the mages, the Venatori, the Templars and so on, and it has a firm grip on Thedas through the Chantrys, the blight, the elven lore, the national leaders and the leaders of the Templar Order, the Seekers, the Promisers..etc. It supercedes the Tevinter Magisters that brought the blight and it wants to see the veil come down so it can infect Thedas.

Maybe I'm just talking through my *bleep*, I'm just a player of the game and have no idea what the writers have in store, but I'm concerned that the game is going to turn into a podium for justifying the encouragment of prejudices and stereotyping.

Your post reminds me of my hypothesis: the Maker is a lie. He's either The Malevolent Force. Or the Dread Wolf was warped into that legend. Think about it: according to the Chantry, the Maker's first children (spirits) were too destructive and he locked them behind the Veil. Sounds awfully similar to Solas's tale about the evanuris.

The elves worship their old gods still and think of the dread wolf as bad, something I think the evanuris influenced through the veil. Solas said Tevinter was built "on the bones of my people". I'm thinking he meant his first people, the ancient elves. Yet it was supposedly Tevinter magisters who heard "old gods" from the Fade promising power in exchange for freedom. Sounds like Solas's prisoners were trying to escape.

Then there's Andraste... What if she was Mythal reborn? Or the first mortal to house her soul like Flemeth did? They're both rather invested in elves' well being for humans, no?

There are so many parallels to all the legends that I wonder if they're one and the same. And the "Maker" is either Solas mistaken for a god or a different entity and nemesis to Solas. And it is this unknown entity that has been engineering everything? Perhaps they engineered the peoples of Thedas to subjugate elves to retaliate against Solas? And Solas can't think of a way to free his people again without restoring them by tearing down the Veil and dealing with the evanuris directly.

[VivainaDX]

I.... hmmm, I guess I just don't see this at all. All three games have tried to explore the gray areas in these issues, in between the stereotypes, to varying levels of success. But I wouldn't say the whole world/game is casting all the things as bad. Solas, least of all. 

 

And, I think they're making brilliant use of his character. As the villain, with a complicated and conflicted rationale, he gets new life as a character. I think the alternative is more of a waste, since otherwise, he would be unlikely to feature in future games, outside of a random codex letter, maybe a cameo if we're lucky. 

Oh, I know that. How grey areas have been handled is one of the reasons why I enjoy the series, I don't want to see that change. There has been a great deal of growth with the characters, the amount of conflicting emotion vs Values has been wonderful so far and the work that's gone into many of the characters has been phenominal. 

 

Honestly, I have a hard time picturing Solas as a villian and I hate to think about it, to me, Solas could be Thedas's version of Spock, or Gandalf, or Zeddicus Zul Zorander(Sword of Truth series) or Master Harper Robinton (PERN). I would've cast him more as the wise sage who everyone turns to and keep him as a major player that effects what happens all across Thedas. 

[VivainaDX]

Your post reminds me of my hypothesis: the Maker is a lie. He's either The Malevolent Force. Or the Dread Wolf was warped into that legend. Think about it: according to the Chantry, the Maker's first children (spirits) were too destructive and he locked them behind the Veil. Sounds awfully similar to Solas's tale about the evanuris.

The elves worship their old gods still and think of the dread wolf as bad, something I think the evanuris influenced through the veil. Solas said Tevinter was built "on the bones of my people". I'm thinking he meant his first people, the ancient elves. Yet it was supposedly Tevinter magisters who heard "old gods" from the Fade promising power in exchange for freedom. Sounds like Solas's prisoners were trying to escape.

Then there's Andraste... What if she was Mythal reborn? Or the first mortal to house her soul like Flemeth did? They're both rather invested in elves' well being for humans, no?

There are so many parallels to all the legends that I wonder if they're one and the same. And the "Maker" is either Solas mistaken for a god or a different entity and nemesis to Solas. And it is this unknown entity that has been engineering everything? Perhaps they engineered the peoples of Thedas to subjugate elves to retaliate against Solas? And Solas can't think of a way to free his people again without restoring them by tearing down the Veil and dealing with the evanuris directly.

 

See, here's some of what I've come up with, unfortunately not everything I want to explain comes easy. I posted this before, don't know if it sounds ok.

 

https://forum.biowar...ion/?p=20355556

 

Ok...If I may present an entirely off the wall concept of the Maker AND the Creators... 

    I`m going to go on the assumption that the Golden City is NOT the Black Palace in the fade, the Golden City is in fact in an area or realm that is the source where all life and magic originates from and it is the only area that maintains it`s pre-veil structure. (ie: floating castles, stone spires, river of spirits etc) 

 

    On the outside,the area looks like a swirling white house sized orb, with two stone pathways on opposite sides leading to it and is sealed in a timeless black void. Inside the orb time flows as fast or as slow as it`s needed to and nothing ages after maturity, one path on the outside leads into the orb the other leads out of it and to enter or exit the time stasis void you need a specific transport stone. Outside the void is Thedas, where time flows normally. The void was created or the Golden City was pulled into the void, just before the veil was formed.

 

The conversation with Solas at the end of Trespasser left me with the impression that someone or someones of great importance was left behind or lost to him when the veil went up and I want to say that he had been waiting for a person or people who didn`t appear at a rendezvous point and these people were a couple of very talented, powerful and young elves that the Evanuris were exploiting for their magical skills.

 

The young elves are brother and sister -The Brother has a brilliant mind for making magical items, coming up with powerful spells and rituals and is basically a master of non-living matter, where as the sister is brilliant at healing, creating new creatures, interacting with spirits and ghosts and extracting white lyrium. They where helping Solas by setting wards, placing runes and creating barriers to prepare for the 'raising' of the veil but got caught and were chased until they took refuge in the Golden City and sent it into the void to cut off access to it, moments before Solas manipulated the veil. Because he doesn't know what happened to them and the Golden City, Solas assumes they died along with many others and since it was them that had the only transport stone into the Golden City, Solas, nor anyone else can enter the city.

 

Because of their close contact with the Golden City, the brother and sister have not aged and over the millenia they have been slowly trying to create transport points so they can travel to and from areas in Thedas, hoping to find Solas and manipulating events by helping certain people and creating new artifacts, spells and rituals that include the use of white lyrium. 

 

I believe there should be a third type of lyrium, it would be clear with a frosty core and as a liquid it would have the consistency of corn syrup and could be consumed for rituals and medicines, used for things like quenching blades and armor as a solid it could be formed into gems that when set in silverite or stormheart  would become extremely powerful amulets, runes, rings, weaponry and armor. 

 

White lyrium would be the purest form of lyrium and would basically be liquid or solid life, magic, ethereal plasma. 

 

Blue lyrium gets it`s color from mortal worldly particles that contaminated white lyrium during the forming of the veil, the particles are pretty well harmless if taken in small doses, but they also work to neutralize  the effectiveness of the lyrium. A templar would have to consume a daily dose of blue lyrium because impurities dilute the effectiveness of the lyrium, where as one dose of white lyrium, (which is the source of pure magic/life) is all a templar would ever need.It would be what the first Templars used but they ran out of it and switched to the blue. It's the impurities in the blue lyrium that effect the brains of the causing addiction and memory loss Templars and not the lyrium itself. White lyrium added to the darkspawn/archdemon blood concoction drunk by Grey Wardens would protect the wardens from the taint and still allow them to detect darkspawn.    

[BevH]

Your post reminds me of my hypothesis: the Maker is a lie. He's either The Malevolent Force. Or the Dread Wolf was warped into that legend. Think about it: according to the Chantry, the Maker's first children (spirits) were too destructive and he locked them behind the Veil. Sounds awfully similar to Solas's tale about the evanuris.

The elves worship their old gods still and think of the dread wolf as bad, something I think the evanuris influenced through the veil. Solas said Tevinter was built "on the bones of my people". I'm thinking he meant his first people, the ancient elves. Yet it was supposedly Tevinter magisters who heard "old gods" from the Fade promising power in exchange for freedom. Sounds like Solas's prisoners were trying to escape.

Then there's Andraste... What if she was Mythal reborn? Or the first mortal to house her soul like Flemeth did? They're both rather invested in elves' well being for humans, no?

There are so many parallels to all the legends that I wonder if they're one and the same. And the "Maker" is either Solas mistaken for a god or a different entity and nemesis to Solas. And it is this unknown entity that has been engineering everything? Perhaps they engineered the peoples of Thedas to subjugate elves to retaliate against Solas? And Solas can't think of a way to free his people again without restoring them by tearing down the Veil and dealing with the evanuris directly.

I haven't decided, yet, if the Maker is a lie. But after playing Trespasser, I definitely thought, "Boy does this throw out the Chant of Light!" What Solas tells the Quizzy is too much coincedence to be discounted.

 

As for when the Dragon Age might end as a game, consider that DAI, after Trespasser, ends in the year 9:42 Dragon. Depending on what year the next game starts, there's likely to be just over 50 years left.

[VivainaDX]

Your post reminds me of my hypothesis: the Maker is a lie. He's either The Malevolent Force. Or the Dread Wolf was warped into that legend. Think about it: according to the Chantry, the Maker's first children (spirits) were too destructive and he locked them behind the Veil. Sounds awfully similar to Solas's tale about the evanuris.

 

Yes, exactly! And Solas says he did it because the Evanuris murdered Mythal. Ok, I admit I'm not completely up to date on all of the elven gods and their temperments, but if I remember correctly their was a group of them enslaving the elves and now we know Solas was protecting them/freeing them. I wonder if part of helping them was supplying them with Evanuris items and knowledge of magic and this caused a problem with the Evanuris. Maybe even Mythal helped Solas do so along with the young elves I shall dub the Maker and Creator. That's why Mythal was mudered.

The elves worship their old gods still and think of the dread wolf as bad, something I think the evanuris influenced through the veil. Solas said Tevinter was built "on the bones of my people". I'm thinking he meant his first people, the ancient elves. Yet it was supposedly Tevinter magisters who heard "old gods" from the Fade promising power in exchange for freedom. Sounds like Solas's prisoners were trying to escape.

 

Yup, and close proximity to the ruins of the ancient elves and to the ancient artifacts left them vulnerable to the influence of the Evanuris. They want out of the fade or they want Thedas destroyed because they have that "If we can't have it no one can" mentality.

Then there's Andraste... What if she was Mythal reborn? Or the first mortal to house her soul like Flemeth did? They're both rather invested in elves' well being for humans, no?

 

I'd go completely off script for this one and have Andraste be a dwarf, but that's because of what I have written about my two young elves. When the Evanuris began enslaving the dwarves, My elves helped free some of them and brought them to "The Golden City".  When the blight came, the sister elf was no longer able to travel Thedas because of her close connection to life magic, so their dwarven companion took her place in marking transport areas and information gathering. There's more to explain here, but one big reveal is that this dwarf is also Sandals mother and they lose her because she had been wearing a ring that absorbed her physical body and placed her essence into the form of a human child as a disgiuse, the form was made out of white lyrium and replicated everything a human body does. That is why her ashes are able to cure sicknesses. The ring containg her essence was taken by a blood mage just before they put her to the stake and the mage shielded it from detection, so when my elf buddy shows up, he's demanding the ring back and the people assume it's a wedding ring. Elf buddy collects her essence, her lyrium body dissolves but the ring with her true body inside is never recovered....until the wards protecting the Holy Urn in the temple of Haven are brought down. So brother elf travels to Haven to collect the ring and ends up snagging the entire urn. He returns back to the GC where he reunites Andraste's essence/soul/spirit with her body. You'd think she'd be happy, but some how, some way her brilliantly talented son disappeared years earlier in the deeproads, so she is not. You see, when Da'el disappeared, he was wearing a silverite/white Lyrium infused ring that had one white lyrium stone that contained a ppart of his essence and one white lyrium stone that contained a spirit of knowledge, named San.(San being the shortened name of some elven word) and had a solid chunk of white lyrium in his pocket, he was in the deeproads collect blue lyrium samples when a carta member knocked him out and stole his ring, thinking it held diamonds, the spirit in the ring drives the carta member crazy and makes him head to the surface world where he ends up just along the South Reach/Bracillian Forest border. Once there he starts going crazy and throws himself off a cliff, at the bottom, his body remains and slowly decays., until the day young lady Rutherford (Cullen's little sister), who is about 12-13 years old, happens across the skeletal remains and finds the ring with San still inside. San leads her to an elven that has a secret door, she enters it and meets brother elf. 

There are so many parallels to all the legends that I wonder if they're one and the same. And the "Maker" is either Solas mistaken for a god or a different entity and nemesis to Solas. And it is this unknown entity that has been engineering everything? Perhaps they engineered the peoples of Thedas to subjugate elves to retaliate against Solas? And Solas can't think of a way to free his people again without restoring them by tearing down the Veil and dealing with the evanuris directly.

 

I would say they have been engineering an entire hate on for magic and elves completely. Like it or not, magic is needed to battle the enemy trying to enter Thedas, it's to the bad guys advantage to weaken Thedas' magic defenses. 

 

 

[DreamerM]

Can I just state for the record that with all this talk about the Fade, Lyrium, the Veil and all of it is connected to Magic and so on.....

... If DA4 pulls a "ME4 and the Relays" where every option to Save the World requires destroying all magic forever or making every mage in the world Tranquil or killing all mages or anything of the like, I will.. I will... be disappointed.

[R2s Muse]

I don't have time this morning to really jump in here. But I'll remind everyone that DG has talked in the past about the difference between the Maker (i.e., the Creator, who predates all the other legends) and the Elvhen gods and the Old Gods. So he already basically told us, years ago, that the Elvhen pantheon basically weren't the same thing as the 'real god' who is the Creator.

 

Now... he has also said repeatedly that Thedas is not a world where you'll meeting your gods, like in the Forgotten Realms et al., and that he wants to maintain the notion of faith in a higher being. Of course, they came awfully close to violating this in DA:I, and in my Lavellan's bed, ahem, but not really, if you consider that the Maker is really the Creator, and everyone else is just some super powerful being. 

 

https://forum.biowar...page-3?p=508158

[The Elder King]

The Maker isn't necessarily the Creator though. That's why they don't want to reveal his identity I think, because he'd mean there's no God in DA.
On the other hand, DAI put doubts on the credibility of the Maker, at least in the way the Chantry portrayed him.
They might decide to reveal the Maker's identity if he's proven to not be the Creator and at the same time give hints on a Godlike being still present in thedas.

[SamaraDraven]

I don't have time this morning to really jump in here. But I'll remind everyone that DG has talked in the past about the difference between the Maker (i.e., the Creator, who predates all the other legends) and the Elvhen gods and the Old Gods. So he already basically told us, years ago, that the Elvhen pantheon basically weren't the same thing as the 'real god' who is the Creator.

Now... he has also said repeatedly that Thedas is not a world where you'll meeting your gods, like in the Forgotten Realms et al., and that he wants to maintain the notion of faith in a higher being. Of course, they came awfully close to violating this in DA:I, and in my Lavellan's bed, ahem, but not really, if you consider that the Maker is really the Creator, and everyone else is just some super powerful being.

https://forum.biowar...page-3?p=508158

Far be it from me to question the lead writer. However... From reading all the codexes, I always get the impression the ancient elves predate the legend of the Maker. There's something off about the timelines, in my opinion. I wonder if maybe DG was speaking fast and loose and not really keeping all the established lore in mind. Or maybe he was laying down the law once and for all like he had to about Cullen's retconned post-Origins slide?

To me it seems, the formation of the Andrastian faith had to form after Arlathan fell. Andraste campaigned against Tevinter. Solas says Tevinter was built over the bones of his people and we know the ancient elves were already fading away when humans came along so the Andraste portion of Chantry lore post-dates the elven gods. Andraste freed the current mortal elves from human magister enslavement. Solas's ancient elves were slaves to the evanuris which were also ancient elves like them but they were puffed up on their own importance. There's no mention of Andraste at this time. So it seems she came along later.

The chantry lore from Origins also states the Maker created spirits first and then locked them away behind the Veil. I forget if he was credited with creating the Veil. But if he locked them behind the veil that already existed, and Solas claims to have made the veil... The Makers banishment of his first children would have come after the evanuris. If the Maker was credited with building the veil, then we have a conflict in the lore as there are two claims to this and either someone is lying or they're both the same entity.

I don't see how the ancient elven could have come after the Maker. Unless he came along, built the world, made spirits and then left things that way? Then the ancient elves rose into prominence, fought a war, the evanuris rose to false god hood and Solas locked them all away and the Maker's spirits were included behind the veil somehow? This would also contradict the Chantry lore about who locked the spirits away and wouldn't the Maker have been upset if some elven upstart locked his kids up? Unless they are one and the same beings?

Random hypothesis! The Makers' spirits drove the venerated ancient elves mad and led them to believe they were gods? Orrrrrrr.... The war Solas mentioned was fought against the spirits the Maker made? Though he never mentioned if spirits existed back then...

But I digress...

Perhaps the Maker did come first, created spirits and left the development of the ancient elves alone and the humans crafted a tale about their god's greatness since they lacked any further info.

After all of this, Tevinter rose and enslaved mortal elves and Andraste came along, singing about the Maker so the one thing the Chantry faith hinges on, it's greatest claim to legitimacy, came after the evanuris. Whether that means the Maker also post-dates the evanuris is unclear. But I'd find it reasonable to infer the Maker came along after and saw this newly blank canvas and started creating his own vision. It seems to me the ancient elves were before the maker's time unless he simply waited around. I'd also find it reasonable to infer that the Maker existed before and that his spirits were what Solas's people fought in the war he mentioned. Though the Maker would have been rather complacent all this time and just watching events unfold...

It's all so mixed up, I have to wonder if DG wasn't just talking fast and loose and in the spur of the moment about his personal vision. Being lead writer and all, he might have had every intention of sticking to this but it got too tangled later on.

[BevH]

In the post R2 cited, DG states this:

In terms of the elven religion's view of the Maker (or lack thereof), it might be interesting to point out that the elven creation myth doesn't stem from their gods. According to Dalish understanding, Elgar'nan and Mythal, the Father and the Mother, did not create the world. They were born of the world. The world was always there, and while it doesn't indicate the presence of a single creator that made the world it also doesn't necessarily contradict it.

So, he doesn't really give is a definitive answer, but from this he makes it pretty clear that the elvhan did not create the word.

[Illegitimus]

In the post R2 cited, DG states this:


So, he doesn't really give is a definitive answer, but from this he makes it pretty clear that the elvhan did not create the word.

 

Well of course they didn't.  Most polytheistic religions don't have any of the actually worshipped gods create the world.  They do tend to create humanity, but then the elf gods probably did reshape the original human inhabitants into elves.