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The Official Cullen Discussion Thread v.3.0


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#138626
R2s Muse

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Far be it from me to question the lead writer. However... From reading all the codexes, I always get the impression the ancient elves predate the legend of the Maker. There's something off about the timelines, in my opinion. I wonder if maybe DG was speaking fast and loose and not really keeping all the established lore in mind. Or maybe he was laying down the law once and for all like he had to about Cullen's retconned post-Origins slide?

To me it seems, the formation of the Andrastian faith had to form after Arlathan fell. Andraste campaigned against Tevinter. Solas says Tevinter was built over the bones of his people and we know the ancient elves were already fading away when humans came along so the Andraste portion of Chantry lore post-dates the elven gods. Andraste freed the current mortal elves from human magister enslavement. Solas's ancient elves were slaves to the evanuris which were also ancient elves like them but they were puffed up on their own importance. There's no mention of Andraste at this time. So it seems she came along later.

The chantry lore from Origins also states the Maker created spirits first and then locked them away behind the Veil. I forget if he was credited with creating the Veil. But if he locked them behind the veil that already existed, and Solas claims to have made the veil... The Makers banishment of his first children would have come after the evanuris. If the Maker was credited with building the veil, then we have a conflict in the lore as there are two claims to this and either someone is lying or they're both the same entity.

I don't see how the ancient elven could have come after the Maker. Unless he came along, built the world, made spirits and then left things that way? Then the ancient elves rose into prominence, fought a war, the evanuris rose to false god hood and Solas locked them all away and the Maker's spirits were included behind the veil somehow? This would also contradict the Chantry lore about who locked the spirits away and wouldn't the Maker have been upset if some elven upstart locked his kids up? Unless they are one and the same beings?

Random hypothesis! The Makers' spirits drove the venerated ancient elves mad and led them to believe they were gods? Orrrrrrr.... The war Solas mentioned was fought against the spirits the Maker made? Though he never mentioned if spirits existed back then...

But I digress...

Perhaps the Maker did come first, created spirits and left the development of the ancient elves alone and the humans crafted a tale about their god's greatness since they lacked any further info.

After all of this, Tevinter rose and enslaved mortal elves and Andraste came along, singing about the Maker so the one thing the Chantry faith hinges on, it's greatest claim to legitimacy, came after the evanuris. Whether that means the Maker also post-dates the evanuris is unclear. But I'd find it reasonable to infer the Maker came along after and saw this newly blank canvas and started creating his own vision. It seems to me the ancient elves were before the maker's time unless he simply waited around. I'd also find it reasonable to infer that the Maker existed before and that his spirits were what Solas's people fought in the war he mentioned. Though the Maker would have been rather complacent all this time and just watching events unfold...

It's all so mixed up, I have to wonder if DG wasn't just talking fast and loose and in the spur of the moment about his personal vision. Being lead writer and all, he might have had every intention of sticking to this but it got too tangled later on.

If you read DG's post, he partially addresses this. The Maker is a renaming of the Creator who predates Tevinter. The myth that this creator god turned away from humanity already existed. Andraste and her subsequent church re-discovered the Maker with the goal of returning humanity to His worship. She and the Chantry come much later in history. 

 

As far as the Chant, the writers have been pretty wink-wink-nudge-nudge that modern understanding of religious history in Thedas is pretty flawed, Andrastians and Dalish alike, and all the Chant's dissonant verses and whatnot show how politics has shaped what remains. So my feeling is that the whole story of the Black/Golden City is wrong in probably substantial ways, particularly given what Corypheus says about how it wasn't golden when he got there. The story of the Maker consigning the old gods to their slumber is also likely wrong, since DG said explicitly  in that thread that it's an open question whether the Maker or the Old Gods predate each other. 

 

As far as the Maker's first children from the Chant, I personally think that's just a poetic way of describing the Elvhen people before the Veil, who basically functioned as spirit-like beings who weren't always flesh. 

 

DA:I, and Solas himself, told us that the Elvhen gods and the Evanuris aren't gods at all. So, I don't really see any kind of contradiction with there also existing some mysterious, non-interacting Creator god, whom Thedas now calls the Maker, who created the world and then sat back to watch it  burn go. 


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#138627
thats1evildude

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What if the ancient elves were originally spirits who took physical form?

(Also, don't put too much stock in Solas' dialogues with Cole. Those are just movie references. The "war in the Fade" is a reference to The Prophecy with Christopher Walken. He also references Angels in the Outfield at one point.)


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#138628
Fadburger

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What if the ancient elves were originally spirits who took physical form?

(Also, don't put too much stock in Solas' dialogues with Cole. Those are just movie references. The "war in the Fade" is a reference to The Prophecy.)

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0114194/

 

I think that's the current working theory, at least the most popular one. Somebody shared it with Weekes and ...somebody else on Twitter...and they got super excited about it lol. It also explained a lot about Elf biology etc. if they are descendant from spirits. It was very clever, well thought out and presented, I was sold anyway lol


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#138629
thats1evildude

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Here's a nice cosplay piece. Doesn't show too much but it suggests a lot, lets you imagine that it's your Inquisitor.

 

http://amaleighcp.de...ength-555070359



#138630
R2s Muse

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What if the ancient elves were originally spirits who took physical form?

Yes, this is the point I was making about the Maker's first children (i.e., the spirits), so I agree. 


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#138631
meanieweenie

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Popping in real quick from my lurking corner... anyone know if there's been any talk or rumors of the writers deviating from the original Book of Gaider regarding Thedas theology? I'm just wondering if the aforementioned comments from him will stand in the future since DG has moved on.  Like R2 said, they've already come close to violating a few notions already. 

 

*midichlorians*

:lol: 


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#138632
SamaraDraven

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Popping in real quick from my lurking corner... anyone know if there's been any talk or rumors of the writers deviating from the original Book of Gaider regarding Thedas theology? I'm just wondering if the aforementioned comments from him will stand in the future since DG has moved on. Like R2 said, they've already come close to violating a few notions already.

*midichlorians*
:lol:


I don't see the spirits=elves thing but if I think about it; I think it would've been possible that spirits didn't become elves but that the elves who were in their long sleep became spirits. When the veil was raised, they were severed from their physical forms and their souls left to wander the Fade. The bodies could have either died or become Tranquil. That's my take on it.
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#138633
Qun00

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We won't face Solas as the Inquisitor though. The player might feel the conflict, but the new PC, not so much. Well, at least in the way I roleplay.
It'd have been actually really interesting to roleplay a Lavellan Who romanced Solas, that goes to stop him. It'd have make overcome my problems with the elves' anatomy.


All I know is that there will be a Solas boss battle and then it will be up to DA4 Hero's to decide whether to spare or kill him.

It's gonna be like Loghain but with more reasons to choose the merciful option.

#138634
R2s Muse

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D'awww, cute-ellyna strikes again. More giddy happiness for Cullen in her stunning style. 

 

tumblr_oa9w4rYEHb1qah051o1_500.jpg

 

Happiness/2

 

http://cute-ellyna.t...e-im-still-on-a


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#138635
SamaraDraven

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D'awww, cute-ellyna strikes again. More giddy happiness for Cullen in her stunning style.

tumblr_oa9w4rYEHb1qah051o1_500.jpg

Happiness/2

http://cute-ellyna.t...e-im-still-on-a


I LOVE how animated their expressions are!
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#138636
R2s Muse

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I LOVE how animated their expressions are!

I know. Her smiles are the best!


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#138637
Hellion Rex

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Forums will be closed in a month. Just thought you all ought to know, so you can save anything you need to now while you have the chance.
  • meanieweenie, R2s Muse et neonmoth aiment ceci

#138638
Dishycrazychick

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Hi all!

Have you heard the news they are shutting down the forums! I know I don't post really but I love reading others posts and looking at all the fab pictures you post.

I am sad!
  • R2s Muse, Morlanwen et neonmoth aiment ceci

#138639
MageTarot

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Hi all!

Have you heard the news they are shutting down the forums! I know I don't post really but I love reading others posts and looking at all the fab pictures you post.

I am sad!

Likewise. While I don't hang out in this forum as much as I used to, it was still a nice place to pop into now and then and know that I could spend time with kindred souls.

 

Maybe we can start a Facebook group?


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#138640
BevH

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I had the sads about the closure of BSN. It's been around in some form or another for almost 20 years. So, for old time's sake, one last dance:

may_i_have_this_dance_by_bevh0531-d9f196


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#138641
neonmoth

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Forums will be closed in a month. Just thought you all ought to know, so you can save anything you need to now while you have the chance.


Just read the news. I feel like someone is planning to bulldoze my family home. I was mostly lurking these days, since we're between games, but I was really looking forward to getting together before another release. Sad news :( :( :(
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#138642
neonmoth

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So much info, devs insights, peeps musings, art and fanfic directories. I don't even know where to start saving :/
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#138643
R2s Muse

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Sigh. Yeah, I just heard. So much will be lost!! Not the least of which, our little community here.

:group hug:
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#138644
Hellion Rex

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Nothing gold can stay, ma'am.


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#138645
neonmoth

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Sigh. Yeah, I just heard. So much will be lost!! Not the least of which, our little community here.
:group hug:

I feel absolutely gutted. So many years worth of content, so many little communities. What a low blow. I just don't feel like I can wave the saveBSN flag. Don't believe it will change anything.

Now I've lost enthusiasm about future bioware games. It won't be as fun without you all ;_;
  • duckley, R2s Muse et rapscallioness aiment ceci

#138646
duckley

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I have lost enthusiasm too - feels like a total slap in the face for loyal fans. I don't know anything about starting forums, but I would gladly join and pay a fee if someone with the know how could set up an independent board.


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#138647
fontofnothing

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Just heard the news about the forums. Haven't had time to read/post here in a while, but this is very saddening.

Don't really know where to go to discuss DA games/characters now. Not a fan of Facebook or Twitter, so guess this will force me to finally make that Reddit account. :unsure: There's a Cullenmancers subreddit over there, at least, but it's not very active these days.


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#138648
Ananka

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I'm sad to see this place go. The Cullen thread has been a nice and positive place, and it's such an amazing collection of everything from art and fanfics to character discussions and just plain fun. I'm having a hard time picturing this kind of community growing in a subreddit or on Twitter.

 

Take care you guys. 


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#138649
BioFan (Official)

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Thank you all for the wonderful experiences I had here. Thank you for the good times. Thank you for the the years spent speculating about Cullen. Thank you for being the wonderful community that was apart of my life and I will remember fondly. 


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#138650
Kaidan Fan

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I know I haven't posted often.  But I have been a lurker/part time poster since the DA2 Cullen thread.  I would hope that some of you would like to keep in touch through origin or steam or on the Vroom forums.  If so, pls feel free to send me a msg so I can send you all my usernames!  Lets not lose touch <3


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