138964 réponses à ce sujet

[Divine Justinia V]

So he only questions it if you side with Templars? I don't really like that.

[Panda]

When did he express doubts on starting the RoA? The only time I remember him questioning Meredith was when she wanted to kill Hawke. 

In templar ending if I remember right he questions it two times. When preparing to battle you can talk with him and he is nervous about the situation and doesn't think it's right but says he will do what he's ordered to do. In cutscene he even says that Rule of Annulment should require something more but Meredith shuts him down by saying that it requires her word.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

During the pro-templar ending,when the three mages surrender.

That's not expressing doubt on the RoA in and of itself, but just Meredith's extreme version of it.

[Panda]

So he only questions it if you side with Templars? I don't really like that.

You can't see him if you side with mages since he's off-screen with other templars and Meredith. So you can't know if he questions it then or not since you aren't with him ^^

[Potato Cat]

So he only questions it if you side with Templars? I don't really like that.

Well you're off helping mages. There isn't really chance, to be fair.

[Lorien19]

So he only questions it if you side with Templars? I don't really like that.

To be honest,I think he questions it anyway,but only pro-templar Hawke is able to ask his opinion about it,which kinda makes sense since they fight on the same side.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So he only questions it if you side with Templars? I don't really like that.

He is totally all for killing all mages when you're not there. 

[Lorien19]

That's not expressing doubt on the RoA in and of itself, but just Meredith's extreme version of it.

He doesn't question it as a measure,he expresses doubt on Meredith invoking it in that particular occasion,that's pretty much what I meant .

[Divine Justinia V]

You can't see him if you side with mages since he's off-screen with other templars and Meredith. So you can't know if he questions it then or not since you aren't with him ^^

 

Mmmmmmmm, I see what you're saying, but:

 

He is totally all for killing all mages when you're not there. 

 

 

Well you're off helping mages. There isn't really chance, to be fair.

 

I don't think "being fair" is strong enough wording for what this is.

I choose to aid innocent Mages from the Circle to avoid the injustice of being slaughtered, Cullen says nothing. Even in the beginning he stands with Meredith until she decides to kill me, the Champion. So it seems like only my status has saved me, there.

I choose to slaughter innocent Mages from the Circle, even though they were not involved, and Cullen decides it's the best time to basically say; "ehh Mer, maybe u should chill. Ferelden was much worse, ukno."

 

I'm not "hating" on him, but let's call a spade a spade, yeah?

[Lorien19]

Yeah, I know he did it's just that with all this bad stuff(bad stuff which is possibly caused by magic) going on he could go back to his "kill all the mages!" business.

I hope it will be as you said: equally wary of mages and templars.

Well,the red templars play a major role in all this bad stuff so yeah,but I agree I wouldn't like to see him becoming anti-mage again after the way his views evolved in DA2.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Mmmmmmmm, I see what you're saying, but:

 

 

 

 

I don't think "being fair" is strong enough for what this is.

I choose to aid innocent Mages from the Circle to avoid the injustice of being slaughtered, Cullen says nothing. Even in the beginning he stands with Meredith until she decides to kill me, the Champion. So it seems like only my status has saved me, there.

I choose to slaughter innocent Mages from the Circle, even though they were not involved, and Cullen decides it's the best time to basically say; "ehh Mer, maybe u should chill. Ferelden was much worse, ukno."

 

I'm not "hating" on him, but let's call a spade a spade, yeah?

Yeah, he sure doesn't speak up when Orsino offers a peaceful compromise and Meredith turns it down. 

[Dirgegun]

Well, to be fair...

 

Hawke would have had balls all to do if all the moderate templars just told Meredith no. And then we wouldn't have a game. Oops.

 

DAII was also kind of a lot rushed. The Devs have already acknowledged that there was mistakes because of this; Cullen not recognising a mage Hawke for example. 

 

Edit: And I could go into psychology and how difficult some people find it to say no to someone of authority, but I'm too lazy to double check what the experiment was called. 

[Divine Justinia V]

Well, to be fair...

 

Hawke would have had balls all to do if all the moderate templars just told Meredith no. And then we wouldn't have a game. Oops.

 

LOL no one is saying that though??

I'm just saying, ONE Templar that can only speak up if you choose to be a mass murderer but not if you choose to be the diplomat. I'm not asking for "all the moderate Templars", especially considering Cullen is the only one that I know of.

She wouldn't have stopped if he had said something, but his support sure as hell would've been welcomed.

I think it has less to do w time management and more to do w his character, but that's just my opinion

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well, to be fair...

 

Hawke would have had balls all to do if all the moderate templars just told Meredith no. And then we wouldn't have a game. Oops.

No, we'd just get this scene a lot quicker.

 

[Dirgegun]

LOL no one is saying that though??

I'm just saying, ONE Templar that can only speak up if you choose to be a mass murderer but not if you choose to be the diplomat. I'm not asking for "all the moderate Templars", especially considering Cullen is the only one that I know of.

She wouldn't have stopped if he had said something, but his support sure as hell would've been welcomed.

I think it has less to do w time management and more to do w his character, but that's just my opinion

 

It was a sort of bad joke, but anyway!

 

I'm not saying Cullen is perfect, but to assume his opinion immediately and completely changes to the exact opposite of what's shown in that video just because we don't see that one scene if you side with the mages is kind of silly. The Templar playthrough just reveals more about the people on that side. Much like how you find out more about Meredith and her motivations if you side with the Templars. 

[Divine Justinia V]

It was a sort of bad joke, but anyway!

 

I'm not saying Cullen is perfect, but to assume his opinion immediately and completely changes to the exact opposite of what's shown in that video just because we don't see that one scene if you side with the mages is kind of silly. The Templar playthrough just reveals more about the people on that side. Much like how you find out more about Meredith and her motivations if you side with the Templars. 

 

Well, we can agree to disagree because we had the chance, more than once, to see him say something in the pro-mage playthrough.

[Potato Cat]

Edit: And I could go into psychology and how difficult some people find it to say no to someone of authority, but I'm too lazy to double check what the experiment was called. 

When I learned about it, it was pretty much every participant in every experiment who couldn't stand up to authority.

[Panda]

LOL no one is saying that though??

I'm just saying, ONE Templar that can only speak up if you choose to be a mass murderer but not if you choose to be the diplomat. I'm not asking for "all the moderate Templars", especially considering Cullen is the only one that I know of.

She wouldn't have stopped if he had said something, but his support sure as hell would've been welcomed.

I think it has less to do w time management and more to do w his character, but that's just my opinion

 

Yea well Cullen is pretty passive during DA2 and also seems to take following orders and his duty as templar important in both games. He's pretty much like soldier who says his opinion but still follows through orders his superior gaves him although he might not personal think it's right thing to do. I think it's also because his traumatic experience in DA2, he follows Meredith cause he believes she strong leader that is needed to keep mages on check so that Ferelden's tragedy doesn't happen again. But I also thinks he is quite oblivious in DA2 and lacks intrest to get into things and try to improve mages situation in Kirkwall although he's second in command and could have done that by little investigation (like he'd have notice how some templars abuse mages and stop it from happening).

[Dirgegun]

When I learned about it, it was pretty much every participant in every experiment who couldn't stand up to authority.

 

Yeah. It was quite interesting... also uncomfortable. Especially when it's easy to assume that 'nah, people would say no', but that didn't turn out to be the case. At all.

[Potato Cat]

Yeah. It was quite interesting... also uncomfortable. Especially when it's easy to assume that 'nah, people would say no', but that didn't turn out to be the case. At all.

Oh I think it 's Milgram's you mean, because that's the dodgy one everyone remembers. Zimbardo's is also brilliantly dodgy, not about authority, but still sort of relevant to mages and templars.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

I'm just saying, ONE Templar that can only speak up if you choose to be a mass murderer but not if you choose to be the diplomat. I'm not asking for "all the moderate Templars", especially considering Cullen is the only one that I know of.

She wouldn't have stopped if he had said something, but his support sure as hell would've been welcomed.

I think it has less to do w time management and more to do w his character, but that's just my opinion

huh, i saw pro-templar ending as a futile damage mitigation attempt when i sided with templars, an extremaly pro-mage PT at that. unfortunately the game has given me no chance of saving mages (aside from those three mages, and it was Cullen's idea, not Hawke's). Cullen's little rant, when Meredith tells her men to kill Hawke, baffled me - the guy has no idea about chain of command (and so far he showed only evidence to the contrary). but i guess he's just huge Champion's fanboy, thus the outrage 

[Divine Justinia V]

Yea well Cullen is pretty passive during DA2 and also seems to take following orders and his duty as templar important in both games. He's pretty much like soldier who says his opinion but still follows through orders his superior gaves him although he might not personal think it's right thing to do. I think it's also because his traumatic experience in DA2, he follows Meredith cause he believes she strong leader that is needed to keep mages on check so that Ferelden's tragedy doesn't happen again. But I also thinks he is quite oblivious in DA2 and lacks intrest to get into things and try to improve mages situation in Kirkwall although he's second in command and could have done that by little investigation (like he'd have notice how some templars abuse mages and stop it from happening).

 

eeeeeeeeeeeh but that cancels out when he says something during the pro-templar playthrough

 

Look, I'm not trying to start a debate even though, well, it's already started.. but every character has flaws, that's why they're a character. To turn a blind eye at them and simply blame this that and the other, completely takes away from it. I've started to like Cullen within the past couple weeks but I'm not going to purposely act oblivious to his faults in previous games. That's asinine.

I'm not saying he should've started an investigation, or what ever else is being said in any of your posts. What I'm saying, and I'll make it perfectly clear this time;

if he could have said that when the Champion chose to help Meredith extinct Kirkwall Mages, he could have said something when Orsino offered a peaceful option or at any other time, besides when he decided Meredith killing Hawke was going to far.

 

I don't expect him to have stopped it, I expected him to have the compassion that he did in an alternate ending.

 

and that's all I've left to say on this.

[Dirgegun]

Oh I think it 's Milgram's you mean, because that's the dodgy one everyone remembers. Zimbardo's is also brilliantly dodgy, not about authority, but still sort of relevant to mages and templars.

 

I honestly can't remember which one it was. It's been a years since my psychology classes. 

 

Did seem relevant to this, though! Even if it's a bit dodgy. 

[Sylvianus]

I kinda agree with Divine. Sometimes, I feel that some of his fans can't stand the fact that he is definitely less concerned about mages than what they'd wish. 

[Dirgegun]

eeeeeeeeeeeh but that cancels out when he says something during the pro-templar playthrough

 

Look, I'm not trying to start a debate even though, well, it's already started.. but every character has flaws, that's why they're a character. To turn a blind eye at them and simply blame this that and the other, completely takes away from it. I've started to like Cullen within the past couple weeks but I'm not going to purposely act oblivious to his faults in previous games. That's asinine.

I'm not saying he should've started an investigation, or what ever else is being said in any of your posts. What I'm saying, and I'll make it perfectly clear this time;

if he could have said that when the Champion chose to help Meredith extinct Kirkwall Mages, he could have said something when Orsino offered a peaceful option or at any other time, besides when he decided Meredith killing Hawke was going to far.

 

I don't expect him to have stopped it, I expected him to have the compassion that he did in an alternate ending.

 

and that's all I've left to say on this.

 

No one is turning a blind eye to his flaws, though. We were just discussing that your interpretation that he is completely okay for killing everything in a mage-sided playthrough is wrong. Instead of discussing or debating, though, you're waving a dismissive hand and saying 'I'm right and you're wrong and you just don't want to admit this character has flaws.'

 

When we're more 'yes he most definitely has flaws, but this is why we don't exactly agree with your interpretation-- oh, you don't even want to debate it and just want to say we're erasing his character flaws. Okay then.'