64 réponses à ce sujet

[Abelas Forever!]

How would you like to handle the situations where you can't for some reason do something in a fantasy world? Can you handle it or does it make you angry?

 

I use as an example the Dark Ritual with Morrigan if you are playing as a female protagonist. I guess I have mentioned this quite many times but I consider it to be a good example. I hope you don't mind me bringing it out again So you are with Alistair and if you want  that both of you will be alive after the final battle then you have to persuade Alistair to do the dark ritual. I didn't like that all because if you play as a male protagonist then you might be with Morrigan and you can do the ritual by yourself and you can do the ritual even if you are not with Morrigan or you can persuade Alistair to do it or you can sacrifice Alistair in the final battle. Anyway the options for the female protagonist are fewer. It is just annoying that you have to persuade the love of your life to have sex with another woman. Even if I don't like it I see it that it is the price to pay for you to have a happy ending. I think that I can accept that even if I would have wanted that I wouldn't have to do it.

 

I guess that there is also a risk that characters become shallow if many of them don't tell about their past relationships and I would see this as a problem which might happen when there are romantic relationships because at some point people usually start to talk about their past relationships. Even the knowledge whether a character had past relationships is meaningful at least in my opinion so I want to know about their past relationships. I would also like that there would be different dialogue options for female and male PCs. That would make me feel special such as discussion about lipstick between your PC and your female friend for example.

[Gervaise]

I don't know about lipstick but I remember that Lelianna brings up the subject of shoes with a Warden of either sex.   The dialogue options allowed you to go with gender stereotype, so female Warden chats enthusiastically and male Warden is uninterested, or opt for the opposite.

 

What was a little annoying in DA2 was that whilst the companions could be romanced by either sex, certain dialogue only came up with one gender.  So you only learn that Karl was Anders' lover if you are a male Hawke, which seemed odd since why wouldn't he want a female Hawke to know?   This suggested that Anders was not bisexual but homosexual for a male Hawke and heterosexual for a female.    There was also a conversation with Fenris concerning his reluctance for being touched and something about it hurting and I'm pretty sure it only happened with a female Hawke, not a male, when again it seemed odd that only a female Hawke should be considered sensitive enough to care about the information.  

 

The Morrigan thing I felt was fair enough.    Did you love Alistair enough to put aside your personal feelings on the matter?   My female Warden did and actually felt worse for Alistair considering how he had always disliked Morrigan.    I must admit I always thought it strange how easily you could persuade Alistair, whether you are male or female, compared with Loghain, who literally begged my Warden not to make him do it.

 

 I find it more annoying when the companions fail to react to PC's actions as  their attitude suggests they should.   Both Anders and Fenris are vehemently against blood magic and give Merrill a really hard time over it, yet Hawke can become a blood mage and so far as I am aware no reference is made to it whatsoever.   Even if Anders could overlook it on the basis that Hawke had been forced into doing so by events (which is how he excuses most other mages), I found it hard to believe that Fenris would ever consider a romance (even a rival based romance) with a blood mage.   In fact I would have thought it was the sort of thing that would make him have nothing more to do with Hawke whether in a romance or not.

 

Also I felt the ending scene in DA2  if you side with the Templars should have altered depending on whether you were a mage or not.   Clearly it was assumed that no mage would side with the Templars because if they did, after defeating Meredith, all the Templars bow down in respect to a mage!.    It was fun seeing it but it just didn't fit with everything that occurred in the game and the attitudes that had been displayed up to then.  

 

I don't really mind if companions can't be romanced by either gender.   It just makes more of an incentive to play the game again with a different gender PC.   The first time I play Origins it was with a male Warden and when I discovered how great Alistair was as a friend, after finishing I immediately replayed as a female Warden just so I could romance him.  

[dragonflight288]

Having separate content for male or female characters doesn't bother me in the slightest. It just increases replayability for me. 

[Neon Rising Winter]

I love to see differences in how PCs are treated based on what kind of character you've rolled up. You've covered gender, but more importantly there's the effect of race and class selection. Just look at the difference race made in DAO. A lot of it might just have been flavour text - although by no means all - but it gave the origins a sense of uniqueness. When Inquisition hits I will seriously consider rolling with Qunari first just because it's bound to be interesting on that front.
 

The other big one is class selection. There's a lot made in the game universe of how mages are treated, so obviously this carries over to mage PCs. The choice of mage PC should affect everything from simple conversation, to opening and closing doors plotwise, especially if the game recognised when you'd decided you wanted to be a blood mage. That should make for some highly uncomfortable contacts with Chantry folks.

[Mockingword]

Oh good, for a minute there I was worried this thread would avoid talking about romance availability altogether. Lord knows we don't get nearly enough of this type of discussion.

 

If a character is "shallow", it's because they were already that way. Their sexuality has nothing to do with it, and restricting access to their content wouldn't fix anything.

 

As for different content for player characters of different genders, I'm largely against it, although there have been exceptions that I was able to live with. I think that as much game content as possible should be accessible in a single playthrough. If I ever feel like being barred from content because of my gender, I'll just go outside.

 

Also, it doesn't help that most of the "different content" for female protagonists in Dragon Age is that they get talked down to by men.

[Abelas Forever!]

I don't know about lipstick but I remember that Lelianna brings up the subject of shoes with a Warden of either sex.   The dialogue options allowed you to go with gender stereotype, so female Warden chats enthusiastically and male Warden is uninterested, or opt for the opposite.

 

What was a little annoying in DA2 was that whilst the companions could be romanced by either sex, certain dialogue only came up with one gender.  So you only learn that Karl was Anders' lover if you are a male Hawke, which seemed odd since why wouldn't he want a female Hawke to know?   This suggested that Anders was not bisexual but homosexual for a male Hawke and heterosexual for a female.    There was also a conversation with Fenris concerning his reluctance for being touched and something about it hurting and I'm pretty sure it only happened with a female Hawke, not a male, when again it seemed odd that only a female Hawke should be considered sensitive enough to care about the information.  

 

The Morrigan thing I felt was fair enough.    Did you love Alistair enough to put aside your personal feelings on the matter?   My female Warden did and actually felt worse for Alistair considering how he had always disliked Morrigan.    I must admit I always thought it strange how easily you could persuade Alistair, whether you are male or female, compared with Loghain, who literally begged my Warden not to make him do it.

 

 I find it more annoying when the companions fail to react to PC's actions as  their attitude suggests they should.   Both Anders and Fenris are vehemently against blood magic and give Merrill a really hard time over it, yet Hawke can become a blood mage and so far as I am aware no reference is made to it whatsoever.   Even if Anders could overlook it on the basis that Hawke had been forced into doing so by events (which is how he excuses most other mages), I found it hard to believe that Fenris would ever consider a romance (even a rival based romance) with a blood mage.   In fact I would have thought it was the sort of thing that would make him have nothing more to do with Hawke whether in a romance or not.

 

Also I felt the ending scene in DA2  if you side with the Templars should have altered depending on whether you were a mage or not.   Clearly it was assumed that no mage would side with the Templars because if they did, after defeating Meredith, all the Templars bow down in respect to a mage!.    It was fun seeing it but it just didn't fit with everything that occurred in the game and the attitudes that had been displayed up to then.  

 

I don't really mind if companions can't be romanced by either gender.   It just makes more of an incentive to play the game again with a different gender PC.   The first time I play Origins it was with a male Warden and when I discovered how great Alistair was as a friend, after finishing I immediately replayed as a female Warden just so I could romance him.  

Maybe the lipstick example wasn't good because depending the gender the protagonist could have different dialogue options like with Leliana and her shoes. I was thinking something that female characters could have some girl talk dialogue options and men could have some boy dialogue options.

 

I think there were quite many moments in DA2 when I expected that I should have gotten friendship or rivalry points but I didn't get any.  I remember that those moments were with Fenris and Anders. So I thought that because I help mages I should have gotten friendship points from Anders and rivalry points from Fenris. So if I had them both with me all the time then they would have be in maximum rivalry or friendship phase quite fast. I'm not sure was it because it was intended that you can't get friendship or rivalry points so easily or the developers didn't have enough time to do it. I guess the lack of points in cases of Anders and Fenris was weird because they had so strong opinios about the mages.

[AlanC9]

I use as an example the Dark Ritual with Morrigan if you are playing as a female protagonist. I guess I have mentioned this quite many times but I consider it to be a good example. I hope you don't mind me bringing it out again So you are with Alistair and if you want that both of you will be alive after the final battle then you have to persuade Alistair to do the dark ritual. I didn't like that all because if you play as a male protagonist then you might be with Morrigan and you can do the ritual by yourself and you can do the ritual even if you are not with Morrigan or you can persuade Alistair to do it or you can sacrifice Alistair in the final battle.

A female warden can choose to refuse the DR too. While you don't like the consequences if romancing Alistair, it's still an option. The difference between the two genders is only that male Wardens have the option to do the DR personally. Which is an additional option for males, yes.

[Abelas Forever!]

A female warden can choose to refuse the DR too. While you don't like the consequences if romancing Alistair, it's still an option. The difference between the two genders is only that male Wardens have the option to do the DR personally. Which is an additional option for males, yes.

When you put it like that I see that there are only one option less. I guess I just felt that the options where worse than they really were because it was so important to me to get the happy ending with Alistair. I think that if he wouldn't have been my LI then I wouldn't have paid so much attention to that thing. Interesting.

[AlanC9]

Sure. The options really are worse if your Warden's in a relationship with Alistair, both in terms of Alistair being a bit more meaningful and because of how you get out of one of you dying. I haven't faced this myself since all my female Wardens either didn't get into a relationship with Alistair or broke up with him after the Landsmeet.

 

I'm OK with that. I don't think it's desirable or even possible to design a game so choices are equally difficult for all characters.

[Nefla]

I didn't like how in DA:O and DA2 I couldn't walk up hills or step over 1 foot tall barriers...

[EmissaryofLies]

How would you like to handle the situations where you can't for some reason do something in a fantasy world? Can you handle it or does it make you angry?

 

 

If it comes down to being railroaded down a particular path, such as slaughtering elves or killing mages, I will have no patience for it. 

 

As far as romances go, I think there should be as many options as possible to make as many people happy within reason. There are always going to be people who complain about certain options in rpgs. So I hope that Bioware does the best that they can. 

 

I'd drop the franchise entirely if they botch the mage/templar conflict in terms of choice, however. 

[KainD]

 It is just annoying that you have to persuade the love of your life to have sex with another woman. 

 

Right, stop right there, that's not how it works. Blight is more important to both the protagonist and Alistair than their relationship. If the relationship was really the focus, then both would spit on the blight and travel as far away as possible to live together as long as possible instead of risking their lives, specially considering that both would be considered dead at Ostagar by the other wardens. Doesn't matter if the blight catches up, still would have plenty years to live and enjoy the life together. The door is right there and you are free to leave. If saving the world is more important to you, then don't complain about the sacrifices you have to make. 

The more frustrating thing to me would be that the game doesn't allow me to express priority for a romance over saving the world, but then the plot fails to function soo, yeah. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Never change, Kain. 

[KainD]

Never change, Kain. 

 

 

Btw. 

 

 

I guess it could be hilarious that male inquisitor could say that he likes to use red lipstick 

 

I am hilarious. 

[myahele]

It is also speculated that Morrigans dad may have been Maric

[KainD]

It is also speculated that Morrigans dad may have been Maric

 

Alistair / Morrigan incest? 

[myahele]

It makes the dark ritual even more unethical.

[EmissaryofLies]

How disturbing.

[KainD]

It makes the dark ritual even more unethical.

 

Perhaps where you come from. 

[EmissaryofLies]

And do you happen to come from Bates Motel, Kain?

[KainD]

And do you happen to come from Bates Motel, Kain?

 

Nah, but it's irrelevant. I just don't have any problem with incest. 

[AlanC9]

It makes the dark ritual even more unethical.

 

Is this really an ethics question? OK, maybe there's a little squick factor, but that's it.

[EmissaryofLies]

You're trusting a potentially very powerful child to someone who's known to be self interested and in love with power as an expression of strength and freedom. 

 

It's like agreeing to give nukes to the cannibal warlords of Africa. 

[KainD]

You're trusting a potentially very powerful child to someone who's known to be self interested and in love with power as an expression of strength and freedom. 

 

It's like agreeing to give nukes to the cannibal warlords of Africa. 

 

It's a shame Morrigan wasn't in love with PC above that, yes. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Indeed, but it makes me respect her even more for it.