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[TheJediSaint]

She's a good counterpoint to the trend in fiction, particularly in videogames, for strong female characters to be killers.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

As I did not censor your critique of the treatment of demisexuality in Bioware games thus far, I'll thank you not to censor my critique of Josephine's romance.

All I did was ask for a change of subject. There is so much to her character, so I would like to discuss some of those on the thread about her that I created. 

 

She's a good counterpoint to the trend in fiction, particularly in videogames, for strong female characters to be killers.

Agreed. 

[TheAvatar]

Thank you for taking the time to share that TheAvatar. I do agree that Josephine is adorable (or lovely, as I notice the game itself uses a lot).
 
If you find yourself unable to pull away from her I suppose there's always Youtube for the others!

She is so adorable and lovely and cute like my feels can't handle it hahaha

I agree though, YouTube is there as the alternative and that way I won't feel like my Inquisitor is cheating on Josie because it will be a complete different Inquisitor!

It was my pleasure to make that post. I actually made an account exclusively to comment on this thread because I saw a lot of negativity and we just can't have that ☺

[Costin_Razvan]

I don't really think a sex scene was in order, despite my annoyance at not having one, along the annoyance at how Josephine acts with regards to romance, she clearly knows nothing despite being a former bard and ambassador to Orlais. Here's a woman who has negotiated with Empires!

Still I was thinking during the romance that a sex scene may not work well here.

[TheAvatar]

Not to be rude or anything but those who insist that a sex scene would have made a world of difference with Josephine's romance or would have made it better make me feel a bit uncomfortable because what you're saying is you are upset that the creators of the game and/or her character did not wish to strip her down for you and animate what is in all reality a porn scene. I love Bioware romance and sex scenes as much as the next person but to get this upset at the lack of it? If you want animated boobs please romance someone else or go watch hentai. This is a story, a game, a work of art, and the creators don't owe us porn. 

 

I for one am glad that while playing I don't have to worry about my girlfriend watching me play and seeing something awkward like a sex scene in my game. I'm sure people who have significant others and/or family around can agree with this. 

 

#NoPornNeededInMyRomance2k14

[Xilizhra]

Not to be rude or anything but those who insist that a sex scene would have made a world of difference with Josephine's romance or would have made it better make me feel a bit uncomfortable because what you're saying is you are upset that the creators of the game and/or her character did not wish to strip her down for you and animate what is in all reality a porn scene. I love Bioware romance and sex scenes as much as the next person but to get this upset at the lack of it? If you want animated boobs please romance someone else or go watch hentai. This is a story, a game, a work of art, and the creators don't owe us porn. 

 

I for one am glad that while playing I don't have to worry about my girlfriend watching me play and seeing something awkward like a sex scene in my game. I'm sure people who have significant others and/or family around can agree with this. 

 

#NoPornNeededInMyRomance2k14

The creators "owe" us nothing beyond that which they think we're willing to shell out sixty bucks for. That, however, is not the point, at least for me. To repost part of a PM to someone else:

 

Not only that, but given Josephine's general personality, along with general past conventions of Bioware games, I never saw any reason to assume we'd started having sex without it coming up. Because, for Josephine, I know that it'd be something important to her; like Leliana and Merrill, she's the romantic sort. How it would happen would be of tremendous emotional importance and is something that I enjoyed seeing in all prior romances, and I feel badly hurt about being unable to do so now, because I know it would have mattered. I don't and will never be able to know her in the way that I knew anyone else I've ever romanced, and I find that horrible.

[costalren28]

I'm a little concerned about the bugs I've been reading about in the past 2 pages. In other words, if you play a Female inquisitor, and do not recruit Blackwall, likely you will not have the accidental "blocked" problem with Josephine? Male inquisitors don't seem to have this issue as they can't romance Blackwall. Is this correct?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Not to be rude or anything but those who insist that a sex scene would have made a world of difference with Josephine's romance or would have made it better make me feel a bit uncomfortable because what you're saying is you are upset that the creators of the game and/or her character did not wish to strip her down for you and animate what is in all reality a porn scene. I love Bioware romance and sex scenes as much as the next person but to get this upset at the lack of it? If you want animated boobs please romance someone else or go watch hentai. This is a story, a game, a work of art, and the creators don't owe us porn. 

 

I for one am glad that while playing I don't have to worry about my girlfriend watching me play and seeing something awkward like a sex scene in my game. I'm sure people who have significant others and/or family around can agree with this. 

 

#NoPornNeededInMyRomance2k14

 

So your character having sexual intercourse is pornography ? I wonder what kind of mental gymnastics did you employ to reach this conclusion. 

 

If you are capable of roleplaying, and this is a roleplaying game, technically speaking, you should play the game in such a way that you character is unaware that she is a playable character in a video game. 

 

What this means in Josephine's romance arc context is that here she is, with the Inquisitor, after going through so much crap and it all ends is a handholding in front of a fireplace with a few pecks. Its like you and your romantic partner in real life, having gone through a lot and culminate the relationship by hugging and pecking at each other. There is even no snogging. It just falls flat. Its like "After all this, that's it ?"

 

Now this type of arc makes sense in a Disney movie tailored towards children since children are not supposed to be exposed to sexual material in media. However, this, in a game that will be played by a lot of adults who has had sex, who understand what it is as opposed to just misconstruing it as pornography, it makes no sense. 

 

Do you even know what pornography is my dear ? Pornography is the portrayal of sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual arousal. The Inquisitor would have sex with Josephine not to arouse the player, it would be to show their deepest and most intimate towards her.

 

Additionally, if you actually get sexually aroused from watching a few pair of breasts, few bare chests and a bare arse, then, no offense, you are a very sorry adult indeed. It would be the equivalent of you being aroused from watching swimwear commercial, shampoo advertisements and lingerie promotions. 

 

What's more, from your post, you are saying that just because your girlfriend is uncomfortable watching you play, that means the rest of us have to suffer. Sorry to inform you but your significant other's comfort level should not affect what type of material the game puts out. That's between you and her. Work it out. 

 

To be clear, I do not hate Josephine. I like her and her pacifistic approach to things are refreshing. However, after knowing that she will not engage in a sexual intercourse with your Inquisitor, I do not find her an appealing romance option anymore. I cannot imagine myself being in a relationship with someone who will not engage in sexual intercourse and I do not wish to put my Inquisitors through the same torture. Her cuteness and adorableness does not justify the lack of one. Merrill was cuter, Tali was cuter, Leliana in DAO was just as cute, Cullen is adorable as well and they all did it. 

 

That is all. 

[TimXP]

People getting real het up about not being able to sex a fake lady ITT.

 

Still early in my first playthrough, but I like Josephine so far. I was wondering if I would, since her introduction seemed the most awkward out of all the advisers. That first montage where you form the Inquisition is like "Here's all your favorites! Leliana! Cassandra! Cullen! And Josephine!" Wait, who? You know... Josephine!

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Having finished Josephine's romance arc, I'm left with many more questions than answers.

 

Spoiler

Why am I dueling someone when I have no reason to have rapier skill? Why am I going behind Josephine's back for this? How am I going behind Josephine's back for this, given that I basically stated my intent to duel this guy earlier, and gave Cullen the order to send the duel notification while he and Josephine were in the same damn war room? Why is the fact that we love each other, by this point in the relationship, a surprise, and why did anyone think that was a good idea when everything in it was supposed to be somehow ambiguous? Why did I shove the couch in front of my fireplace and then shove it back to its illogical corner position after Josephine left? Why did the crack animation team always make it look like I was making out with her neck in the garden? Why did an Antivan lord come to Val Royeaux for a duel when it's farther away from Antiva than Skyhold is?

Also, the sex thing.

 

Same here.

 

My character was a Jedi Knight Knight Enchanter. I was surprised when I could not use my lightsaber spirit blade and win outright by melting the rapier sword with lightsaber power spirit energy. As far as I know, rapiers and lightsabers spirit blades are not the same thing so how my Inquisitor became proficient at rapier fighting is truly beyond me. 

 

About the going behind Josephine's back, yeah, I did not understand that either. All three advisers were with my Inquisitor in the war room at all times. 

 

The romance arc as a whole felt very weird.

 

I mean, here we have a former bard, currently politician, diplomat and ambassador...

 

Yet she cannot tell if someone is flirting with her ?

 

Then this same person who my Inquisitor is flirting with through the whole game...who spends her time schooling nobles...cannot come forth herself to confront my Inquisitor but must use her friend as a proxy ?

 

Then she dislikes my Inquisitor for participating in a duel when she was in the very room during which the Inquisitor sent the invitation and could have said something about it ?

 

Why did the duel have to be in Val Royeaux ? Travel to Ferelden, and indeed to Skyhold from Antiva would be far cheaper and far shorter. 

 

Then there is the very anti-climatic end of her romance arc.

 

I personally consider Josephine to be the asexual romance option in the game, not the straight male or straight female or lesbian female love interest. 

 

TL;DR :

 

 

It never ends well. 

[Catche Jagger]

The creators "owe" us nothing beyond that which they think we're willing to shell out sixty bucks for. That, however, is not the point, at least for me. To repost part of a PM to someone else:

 

Not only that, but given Josephine's general personality, along with general past conventions of Bioware games, I never saw any reason to assume we'd started having sex without it coming up. Because, for Josephine, I know that it'd be something important to her; like Leliana and Merrill, she's the romantic sort. How it would happen would be of tremendous emotional importance and is something that I enjoyed seeing in all prior romances, and I feel badly hurt about being unable to do so now, because I know it would have mattered. I don't and will never be able to know her in the way that I knew anyone else I've ever romanced, and I find that horrible.

 

How do you know it would be important? It was never brought up to be so important in-game. Your previous comments on how you feel that the major story beats of the romance feel confusing or silly seem like reasonable grievances, but I still don't see why the sex is so important outside of your personal opinion (which is based around assumptions) that Josephine values sex highly.

I would propose that since the sex, or lack thereof, is left ambiguous, it simply isn't that important to the relationship between the characters. What matters is that they are together.

^However, this is just conjecture on my part.

[TheAvatar]

So your character having sexual intercourse is pornography ? I wonder what kind of mental gymnastics did you employ to reach this conclusion. 

 

If you are capable of roleplaying, and this is a roleplaying game, technically speaking, you should play the game in such a way that you character is unaware that she is a playable character in a video game. 

 

What this means in Josephine's romance arc context is that here she is, with the Inquisitor, after going through so much crap and it all ends is a handholding in front of a fireplace with a few pecks. Its like you and your romantic partner in real life, having gone through a lot and culminate the relationship by hugging and pecking at each other. There is even no snogging. It just falls flat. Its like "After all this, that's it ?"

 

Now this type of arc makes sense in a Disney movie tailored towards children since children are not supposed to be exposed to sexual material in media. However, this, in a game that will be played by a lot of adults who has had sex, who understand what it is as opposed to just misconstruing it as pornography, it makes no sense. 

 

Do you even know what pornography is my dear ? Pornography is the portrayal of sexual subject matter for the purposes of sexual arousal. The Inquisitor would have sex with Josephine not to arouse the player, it would be to show their deepest and most intimate towards her.

 

Additionally, if you actually get sexually aroused from watching a few pair of breasts, few bare chests and a bare arse, then, no offense, you are a very sorry adult indeed. It would be the equivalent of you being aroused from watching swimwear commercial, shampoo advertisements and lingerie promotions. 

 

What's more, from your post, you are saying that just because your girlfriend is uncomfortable watching you play, that means the rest of us have to suffer. Sorry to inform you but your significant other's comfort level should not affect what type of material the game puts out. That's between you and her. Work it out. 

 

To be clear, I do not hate Josephine. I like her and her pacifistic approach to things are refreshing. However, after knowing that she will not engage in a sexual intercourse with your Inquisitor, I do not find her an appealing romance option anymore. I cannot imagine myself being in a relationship with someone who will not engage in sexual intercourse and I do not wish to put my Inquisitors through the same torture. Her cuteness and adorableness does not justify the lack of one. Merrill was cuter, Tali was cuter, Leliana in DAO was just as cute, Cullen is adorable as well and they all did it. 

 

That is all. 

 

 

As much as I wish I had time right now to go over everything you said, I do not. I would just like to point out that you're basically arguing with strangers online who don't find an animated sex scene necessary to enjoy a romance arc because you need some sort of fulfillment that you will only achieve through the use of nudity in a video game. 

 

You don't have to agree with me the way I don't agree with you, and that's fine. At the end of the day, this is a fantasy adventure game. Not a dating sims game. 

[Xilizhra]

How do you know it would be important? It was never brought up to be so important in-game. Your previous comments on how you feel that the major story beats of the romance feel confusing or silly seem like reasonable grievances, but I still don't see why the sex is so important outside of your personal opinion (which is based around assumptions) that Josephine values sex highly.

I would propose that since the sex, or lack thereof, is left ambiguous, it simply isn't that important to the relationship between the characters. What matters is that they are together.

^However, this is just conjecture on my part.

It's somewhat conjectural, but all of her personality that I can discern would seem to point to her seeing sex as preferred within an emotionally important context, and not casually.

 

 

You don't have to agree with me the way I don't agree with you, and that's fine. At the end of the day, this is a fantasy adventure game. Not a dating sims game. 

No, that would be Legend of Zelda. This is a roleplaying game, and those roles exist in ways beyond just adventuring.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

 Bleh wish people would stop having endless debates about this.

Anyway just played the first Josephine quest thingie

Spoiler

Annulling the contract on her life. I admit I was tempted to use Leliana, but decided Josephine's path is less blood-sheddy, plus she'll be safe in Skyhold. It took quite a while though I admit, 3-4 20 minutes war table missions!  

Anyway the best part wasn't this really, it was finding out she was a BARD. Jaw dropped that moment, and it was interesting to see how she openly admitted that the life wasn't for her at all, made me connect with her instantly. And of course, courting her is fun

 

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Changed my profile picture at last. You know what this means. It feels soooo surreal.. 
I feel so happy about it, I've never gushed and smiled so much at a romance in my life, the scene had balanced amounts of shyness and cuteness, it's not over done and I absolutely loved it. Can't wait to play more!

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Shout out to Richard (I forgot his twitter .-.) because the couple of scenes I've played were directed and animated so well, thank you! 

[Xilizhra]

She doesn't even seem to really acknowledge the romance in dialogue afterward, especially at the Winter Palace...

 

I confess, I'm close to tears at this point.

[AresKeith]

She doesn't even seem to really acknowledge the romance in dialogue afterward, especially at the Winter Palace...

 

I confess, I'm close to tears at this point.

 

And did you start the romance before it?

[Xilizhra]

And did you start the romance before it?

Started and finished.

[Br3admax]

She doesn't even seem to really acknowledge the romance in dialogue afterward, especially at the Winter Palace...

I confess, I'm close to tears at this point.

Considering all the evidence to the contrary, seems like a personal issue.

[Espurr]

There is dialogue from her in the Winter Palace, between the two of you and her sister. It's actually pretty adorable. There's also a scene with her post-quest before you leave to return to Skyhold, and she's acknowledges it in dialogue later on. If it's not coming up for you, you may be bugged. 

 

After playing through her whole romance I'm really glad there wasn't an explicit scene, actually. I'm sure we're doing the do, but a scene depicting it would have been out of line with the tone of everything up until that point. 

[Xilizhra]

Considering all the evidence to the contrary, seems like a personal issue.

Such as?

[Mr.House]

She doesn't even seem to really acknowledge the romance in dialogue afterward, especially at the Winter Palace...

 

I confess, I'm close to tears at this point.

False, keep lying, it's hilarious. I can say with certainty her romance is acknowledge not just by her but other characters including her

Spoiler

sister

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 Bleh wish people would stop having endless debates about this.

Anyway just played the first Josephine quest thingie

Spoiler

Annulling the contract on her life. I admit I was tempted to use Leliana, but decided Josephine's path is less blood-sheddy, plus she'll be safe in Skyhold. It took quite a while though I admit, 3-4 20 minutes war table missions!  

Anyway the best part wasn't this really, it was finding out she was a BARD. Jaw dropped that moment, and it was interesting to see how she openly admitted that the life wasn't for her at all, made me connect with her instantly. And of course, courting her is fun

 

Spoiler

I performed her way as well. It took longer, but it was what she wanted so since she was the target I felt helping her out in her way was better. 

Yeah, I have to admit I was shocked at that as well. But when she goes into it, I like how they did that. She was a bard, but operated completely differently from Leliana. Where Leliana employed every dirty trick under the sun, Josephine was a moral bard who did none of those dirty tricks.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Spoiler

I performed her way as well. It took longer, but it was what she wanted so since she was the target I felt helping her out in her way was better. 

Yeah, I have to admit I was shocked at that as well. But when she goes into it, I like how they did that. She was a bard, but operated completely differently from Leliana. Where Leliana employed every dirty trick under the sun, Josephine was a moral bard who did none of those dirty tricks.

 

Spoiler

Exactly! When I first heard she was a bard I was stunned for a moment, then kept hoping it'll play out well and not another 'I was such a different person'. It seems like she's always been that way and matured even more in both morals and ideals excellently. I loved how she said the life wasn't suited for her, and I love how she never was going to kill the target, but only did so out of self defense and still regrets it. I'm guessing having assassins after her triggered that memory. 

Anyway I'll be writing a post analyzing and writing about what I like about Josephine when I finish the game. I'm honestly so pleasantly surprised by her character and romance, I'm not even finished yet I'm so satisfied and happy.