16177 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I still dont get how she totally misses them though.

She is normally the social expert.

Some people can be great at reading people but are just oblivious to flirting. 

[Joe25]

I still dont get how she totally misses them though.

She is normally the social expert.

Love is tender, love is kind, love is deaf, and love is blind.

[Giggles_Manically]

Love is tender, love is kind, love is deaf, and love is blind.

And the night is dark and full of terrors.....oh wait wrong Dark Fantasy series.

[Joe25]

And the night is dark and full of terrors.....oh wait wrong Dark Fantasy series.

And love is drunk and full of wine.

[Master Warder Z_]

Arbor wine!

[Giggles_Manically]

Actually to get a more serious question now:
 

Where does the romance go post end game?

Josie is going to be the head of a major house and like 90% or more of inquisitors are not socially the accepted partner or someone in her position.

 

So what now?

I suppose her knowing the next divine could help, or being the Herald.

[ShadowLordXII]

Actually to get a more serious question now:
 

Where does the romance go post end game?

Josie is going to be the head of a major house and like 90% or more of inquisitors are not socially the accepted partner or someone in her position.

 

So what now?

I suppose her knowing the next divine could help, or being the Herald.

 

What's not socially acceptable about being the Leader of the Inquisition; Herald of Andraste and Personal Ally of the Orlesian Emperor/Empress that just saved the entire world no less than three times in the Span of a Year? (closed the Breach; defeated Corypheus; Foiled the Demon and Assassination plots)

[Master Warder Z_]

Not being a male human noble capable of giving the family heirs and ties?

[Tayah]

What's not socially acceptable about being the Leader of the Inquisition; Herald of Andraste and Personal Ally of the Orlesian Emperor/Empress that just saved the entire world no less than three times in the Span of a Year? (closed the Breach; defeated Corypheus; Foiled the Demon and Assassination plots)

Well if you're not a human inquisitor there's the lack of noble birth, if you're a mage then you bring magic into the gene pool and that's still not good as far as most people are concerned regardless of what the divine decrees it's likely going to take a while for nobility to change their views and prejudices against mages (they may still leave mages unable to inherit after all) so in the immediate future mage is still not going to be seen as good. If your inquisitor is female then the union doesn't lead to heirs (probably not with races other than human either and nobility are the most racist part of society in thedas generally speaking so problems would exist with elf blooded or other children also) and depending on race there would be scandals attached for that as well.

 

The nobility is going to be fine with being saved and may be grateful enough to give money and some prestige to an inquisitor but they certainly won't view a non-human inquisitor or a mage inquisitor as being on the same social level as them. Yes they would deal with you and politely enough too but they're never going to allow a commoner and worse for other races to be seen as their equal... they're nobles and that would potentially cost them power and worse have other 'riff raff' trying to follow an inquisitor's example. It would be socially acceptable to deal with an inquisitor on a 'business' level but not on a marriage level. And I think this is something that should have been addressed in Josie's romance by the way. 

 

As for Josie missing flirts I sometimes think she's deliberately oblivious and uses it as a tactic to avoid entanglements at court and with bards, if you keep missing flirts and hints people eventually give up and move on, she's not caught in any compromising situations or traps by rivals and develops a reputation of being oblivious and uninterested in flirtations so it's a tactic less used on her. I'd guess at the start she's not sure why the inquisitor is flirting with her but assumes it's just fun and light (she almost says something along the lines of yes I knew you were flirting but I knew you weren't serious) when you start the romance.

[ShadowLordXII]

Well if you're not a human inquisitor there's the lack of noble birth, if you're a mage then you bring magic into the gene pool and that's still not good as far as most people are concerned regardless of what the divine decrees it's likely going to take a while for nobility to change their views and prejudices against mages (they may still leave mages unable to inherit after all) so in the immediate future mage is still not going to be seen as good. If your inquisitor is female then the union doesn't lead to heirs (probably not with races other than human either and nobility are the most racist part of society in thedas generally speaking so problems would exist with elf blooded or other children also) and depending on race there would be scandals attached for that as well.

 

The nobility is going to be fine with being saved and may be grateful enough to give money and some prestige to an inquisitor but they certainly won't view a non-human inquisitor or a mage inquisitor as being on the same social level as them. Yes they would deal with you and politely enough too but they're never going to allow a commoner and worse for other races to be seen as their equal... they're nobles and that would potentially cost them power and worse have other 'riff raff' trying to follow an inquisitor's example. It would be socially acceptable to deal with an inquisitor on a 'business' level but not on a marriage level. And I think this is something that should have been addressed in Josie's romance by the way. 

 

As for Josie missing flirts I sometimes think she's deliberately oblivious and uses it as a tactic to avoid entanglements at court and with bards, if you keep missing flirts and hints people eventually give up and move on, she's not caught in any compromising situations or traps by rivals and develops a reputation of being oblivious and uninterested in flirtations so it's a tactic less used on her. I'd guess at the start she's not sure why the inquisitor is flirting with her but assumes it's just fun and light (she almost says something along the lines of yes I knew you were flirting but I knew you weren't serious) when you start the romance.

 

Again, Leader of the Inquisition and Herald of Andraste.

 

One title possesses nearly unequal religious prestige especially since the Inquisitor has the Veil-manipulating Mark to back it up.

 

The other title means that the Inquisitor is the leader of one of the most powerful organizations in Thedas at the current moment with many connections across southern Thedas including the personal endorsement of the emperor/empress of Orlais.

 

The nobles are free to have a hissy fit if the Inquisitor is non-human, a mage, or female. Especially when the Inquisition was first starting out. But to let that blind them from the pragmatic advantages of allying with the Inquisitor? Or in the case of the Montilyets, marrying your heir to a powerful lord that was personally blessed and empowered by Andraste herself?

 

I actually picture my Inquisitor laughing in Josephine's father's face if he actually pulls that nonsense and actually believes that it's a valid reason to withhold his blessing for the marriage.

 

 

Though Josephine probably wouldn't approve and scold Adaar...

 

Also, the Montilyets have one other daughter and 3 sons available for political marriages, so it's not like the family is losing it's sole heir being placed into a position of being locked out of other marriage alliance opportunities.

[Master Warder Z_]

The inquisition may not last but the shame of accepting the match of a non human?

That's going to linger.

[herkles]

The inquisition may not last but the shame of accepting the match of a non human?

That's going to linger.

but peaceful divine lelianne turns southern thedas into a bastian of tolerance and love for mages and the other races? 

[Master Warder Z_]

but peaceful divine lelianne turns southern thedas into a bastian of tolerance and love for mages and the other races?

Ha!

She can decree what she likes and probably die for it.

But the enforcement of laws on the people who enforce them tends to usually be a matter of others agreeing in a uniform decision.

That's where even the Chantry fails to intercede because it cannot.

It doesn't write social or legal policy in Thedas

[Giggles_Manically]

Yeah as much as Thedas approves of the PC there is just no way its going to be socially acceptable for Josie to marry an ex carta member, or a dalish elf, or a Qunari Mercenary or a mage.

 

There were plenty of Medal of Honor and famous war heroes from minorities in the last century who did great deeds, then went home and got forgotten about.

Just look up Tommy Prince as a Canadian example.

 

The Herald may have kicked ass and taken names, but Thedas is still Thedas, and the Herald did not change the society in it.

As much as I enjoyed the Josie romance I cant escape the sense of dread that it wont last with most PCs.

 

Josie loves her family and is very dedicated to its future.

What if some noble offers her, his hand that would secure her families future for sure?

 

Are you all that certain that Josie would risk her family standing and all she worked for over love for the PC?

[ShadowLordXII]

Yeah as much as Thedas approves of the PC there is just no way its going to be socially acceptable for Josie to marry an ex carta member, or a dalish elf, or a Qunari Mercenary or a mage.

 

There were plenty of Medal of Honor and famous war heroes from minorities in the last century who did great deeds, then went home and got forgotten about.

Just look up Tommy Prince as a Canadian example.

 

The Herald may have kicked ass and taken names, but Thedas is still Thedas, and the Herald did not change the society in it.

As much as I enjoyed the Josie romance I cant escape the sense of dread that it wont last with most PCs.

 

Josie loves her family and is very dedicated to its future.

What if some noble offers her, his hand that would secure her families future for sure?

 

Are you all that certain that Josie would risk her family standing and all she worked for over love for the PC?

 

What is there to risk? What could secure your family greater than being the wife of the Herald of Andraste? (You're really underestimating the connotations of that title)

 

Again, even if it defies social convention, it makes no sense to deny a marriage which provides plenty of religious prestige and a great deal of potential economic and political gain considering the Inquisition's connections and power.

 

Oh yeah and you'd now be matrimonially tied to someone that your religion's christ-figure personally blessed. A personally political ally of the empress/emperor of Orlais.

 

And saving the world isn't something like a normal soldier doing well in a war. That's a false equivalency.

 

This is literally the equivalent of saving all of the world from destruction and death from powerful obvious and secretive forces. A giant hole appeared in the sky and unleashed a demonic invasion that threatened to destroy the world. We saw the bad future where said invasion literally destroyed the world. And the Inquisitor stopped it. He also destroyed the force behind the breach and other plots involving deceiving the Grey Wardens into creating a demonic army and destabilizing Orlais through an assassin plot.

 

In fact, would the Montilyet's standing gain more harm from refusing to bless the match? How exactly would Lord Montilyet be able to deny the match despite the obvious advantages which clearly and largely outweigh the "social unacceptability?" How would he not lose face by telling the Herald of Andraste that they can't marry his daughter? It would be one thing if Lord Montilyet didn't know about the Inquisitor's reputation, titles, deeds, actions and alliances; but even that's dubious considering how wide of networking that the Inquisition possesses.

 

And again, the social class thing just doesn't fly when your credentials place you politically, socially, economically and religiously above 95% of Thedas' population including the majority of non-royal nobles.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Are you all that certain that Josie would risk her family standing and all she worked for over love for the PC?

Josephine's romance quest is essentially her putting her love for you above her love for family, so yes. 

 

 

Josie loves her family and is very dedicated to its future.

What if some noble offers her, his hand that would secure her families future for sure?

You mean like Lord Otranto, in which her response is working on annulling the engagement so you and she can continue being together?

[Master Warder Z_]

All assuming that the inquisition and thus the inquisitor retains relevance in the world.

Which I doubt.

[Tayah]

Again, Leader of the Inquisition and Herald of Andraste.

 

One title possesses nearly unequal religious prestige especially since the Inquisitor has the Veil-manipulating Mark to back it up.

 

The other title means that the Inquisitor is the leader of one of the most powerful organizations in Thedas at the current moment with many connections across southern Thedas including the personal endorsement of the emperor/empress of Orlais.

 

The nobles are free to have a hissy fit if the Inquisitor is non-human, a mage, or female. Especially when the Inquisition was first starting out. But to let that blind them from the pragmatic advantages of allying with the Inquisitor? Or in the case of the Montilyets, marrying your heir to a powerful lord that was personally blessed and empowered by Andraste herself?

 

I actually picture my Inquisitor laughing in Josephine's father's face if he actually pulls that nonsense and actually believes that it's a valid reason to withhold his blessing for the marriage.

 

Though Josephine probably wouldn't approve and scold Adaar...

 

Also, the Montilyets have one other daughter and 3 sons available for political marriages, so it's not like the family is losing it's sole heir being placed into a position of being locked out of other marriage alliance opportunities.

First Josie marrying someone deemed unacceptable by society at large would definitely have an impact on the prospects of her siblings, the better families in wealth and standing would distance themselves from entanglements with the Montilyets very quickly so actually No that's not going to make up for the lack of an heir.

 

Second the inquisitor may have saved the world but in doing so they will have made enemies and religion figurehead isn't going to stop power-hungry nobles looking for ways to prevent/keep the inquisitor out of their elite circles for the most part. A non-human inquisitor will never really be accepted by them, and Josie marrying a non-human (male since s/s marriage doesn't exist in Thedas) or staying in a monogamous relationship with a female inquisitor is going to weaken her standing and the standing of her family in the long term especially as the world settles down again and the events that lead to the inquisition fade in people's memories after a few years. 

 

The inquisitor's fame won't last long and it's highly unlikely that the prejudices of Thedas are going to be overturned in the near future so generations of classism, racism and prejudice will continue to be a major part of how the nobles re-act and to them social standing matters more than anything else, not sure why you think a religious figure will change that when many of the noble families are clearly just paying lip service to their religion anyway and still doing what they want (like Vaughn disrespecting a mother and continuing to rape Shianni in Origins). The chantry isn't the sole power in Thedas, the nobles have plenty of power of their own they usually follow the chantry for their own benefit and the chantry doesn't usually demand things the nobles don't like, it's not like the chantry has been much more tolerant than the nobles after all.

 

As for the Montilyets being practical or pragmatic the most pragmatic option from their point of view would have been Josie marrying Otranto and keeping the inquisitor on the side so they gain the appropriate standing and future heirs plus benefits from being close to the inquisition while it remains relevant. The exception would have been for male rogue or warrior humans as they're at least noble and potentially they could then marry their younger daughter to Otranto as well.

 

 

Josephine's romance quest is essentially her putting her love for you above her love for family, so yes. 

 

You mean like Lord Otranto, in which her response is working on annulling the engagement so you and she can continue being together?

Yes this needed far more development to me than anything else especially since there's a war table mission where Josie forces another noble to marry against her wishes for the sake of family and considers that fair and expected behaviour. Josie's responses in the Otranto situation were very different to what she and Viv imply is normal noble behaviour and should have been explored more at the very least. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Stop trying to ruin this for me, Tayah. It's already hard enough. 

 

Yes this needed far more development to me than anything else especially since there's a war table mission where Josie forces another noble to marry against her wishes for the sake of family and considers that fair and expected behaviour. Josie's responses in the Otranto situation were very different to what she and Viv imply is normal noble behaviour and should have been explored more at the very least. 

Um, I just did that War Table questline and Josephine's option is the one that supports the noble marrying the man she loves.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

All assuming that the inquisition and thus the inquisitor retains relevance in the world.

Which I doubt.

According to the Epilogue, it will. 

[Master Warder Z_]

According to the Epilogue, it will.

That's immediately post main campaign.

Prospects change quickly.

Give it a month or six

[Tayah]

Stop trying to ruin this for me, Tayah. It's already hard enough. 

 

Um, I just did that War Table questline and Josephine's option is the one that supports the noble marrying the man she loves.

Sorry Hanako. This is why I usually don't post now because playing a female inquisitor romancing Josie I have logic problems and that can spoil it for others I suppose though I've just been trying to find a way to make it work with the lore as I understand it for me and haven't been successful.

 

Realistically if you're playing a human male inquisitor Otranto's appearance or even just before is also where you should have the chance to discuss a future with and get betrothed to Josie assuming that's what you want. 

 

Oh and the war table questline, I'm pretty sure she does... I just checked the wiki and as it's a quest with several stages it turns out we're both right... depends on the options you pick earlier as to what options you get at that point. I don't even remember the options I'd picked to get there but there you go. 

[Master Warder Z_]

The secret is ale

[Giggles_Manically]

Well I just:

 

Thedas has a long history of forgetting its debt to certain groups (Grey Wardens) and for being incredibly close minded about certain things.

Can you really say that Josie, her family, and the nobility of Thedas would over look Josie marrying a non human or a mage?

 

Eventually Josie would probably understand that its all well and good to love someone, but that does not mean they get heirs or a political future from it.

I mean it would break both her and the PC pretty bad, but eventually everyone involved would see where it ends up.

 

Kinda funny in a way.

The least angst filled romance in the game, is probably just going to end up like Solas' romance in the end.

If nothing else it would make an interesting story to say the least.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Thedas has a long history of forgetting its debt to certain groups (Grey Wardens) and for being incredibly close minded about certain things.

Can you really say that Josie, her family, and the nobility of Thedas would over look Josie marrying a non human or a mage?

 

Eventually Josie would probably understand that its all well and good to love someone, but that does not mean they get heirs or a political future from it.

I mean it would break both her and the PC pretty bad, but eventually everyone involved would see where it ends up.

 

Kinda funny in a way.

The least angst filled romance in the game, is probably just going to end up like Solas' romance in the end.

If nothing else it would make an interesting story to say the least.

The Grey Wardens also kept themselves separate from the rest of the world for the most part. The Inquisition meanwhile is now a central player in Southern Thedas. 

 

I can, since there are nobles in Val Royeaux who talk about it. One talks about you and her being in love, and the other is concerned since it gives Josephine a ton of influence. 

 

Again, her romance quest is putting her love for you above that. And as others have pointed out, there are ways that the Montilyets wouldn't falter, like having the child of one of Josephine's siblings become the next heir if she doesn't have any. 

 

It's not funny and wouldn't make an interesting story in any way, shape, or form.