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[Ieldra]

OK people, let's talk about something else than relationships and characters. This thread is intended to collect speculation about DAI's plot inspired by events in The Masked Empire.

I'll start with my list.

(1) There will apparently be three, not two factions in the Orlesian civil war: Gaspard's faction, Celene's faction and Briala's elves.

(2) It appears somewhat possible that we may be able to use the eluvians for fast travel.

(3) The hidden entity in the epilogue is either itself DAI's primary antagonist or allied to him or her. It also has the powers of a Dreamer. It may be a possessed Dreamer.

(4) While the elven Inquisitor will be Dalish, the Dalish as a faction will play a lesser part in the story compared to the city elves. It appears plausible that no Inquisitor background will strongly predispose players towards a specific faction.

(5) Felassan has some connection to Fen'Harel. It is currently unclear if this connection is symbolic only, making him some kind of priest-analogue, or if there really exists an entity of that name. It appears possible that lore of the elven pantheon will come into play at some point, maybe magic associated with it as well. This may be a part of a global effect hinted at by Sandal's statement that the magic will come back.

Hmm....so far the regrettable short list. Let's see what else comes up.

[Xilizhra]

The Dalish will have a part in the story, I think, but not be connected directly to Orlais.

 

I also think it's possible that there could be only two factions that can be joined in the Orlesian civil war, in part because I see Celene and Briala as hopefully being able to reconcile.

[Darth Krytie]

I think that there's hints of the potential for the Elves getting a piece of their own land back. I just get the sense that, of course depending on what you choose, that there will be a huge change in the standing of both City/Dalish elves by the end of it.

 

I too hope that Briala and Celene reconcile. I admit they have...um...a lot to work through, but I don't believe that Celene's willingness to aid Briala was disingenuous.

[Xilizhra]

I think that there's hints of the potential for the Elves getting a piece of their own land back. I just get the sense that, of course depending on what you choose, that there will be a huge change in the standing of both City/Dalish elves by the end of it.

 

I too hope that Briala and Celene reconcile. I admit they have...um...a lot to work through, but I don't believe that Celene's willingness to aid Briala was disingenuous.

It'll be the one thing that can make the book not horrible, so...

[Ieldra]

I think that there's hints of the potential for the Elves getting a piece of their own land back. I just get the sense that, of course depending on what you choose, that there will be a huge change in the standing of both City/Dalish elves by the end of it.

I had actually included exactly that in my list, but deleted it because I think the scope of divergence in the big-picture outcomes is likely to be limited, the occasional discontinued outcome notwithstanding.

@Xil:
Would you PLEASE leave that topic out of this thread!!!!!!!!!

[Banxey]

I think that there's hints of the potential for the Elves getting a piece of their own land back. I just get the sense that, of course depending on what you choose, that there will be a huge change in the standing of both City/Dalish elves by the end of it.

 

I too hope that Briala and Celene reconcile. I admit they have...um...a lot to work through, but I don't believe that Celene's willingness to aid Briala was disingenuous.

 

I would like Celene and Briala to work things out. I sort of see it as a way for them to come together as equals instead of Empress and servant. Celene as an Empress and Briala as the leader of the city elves. If Briala shakes things up enough, the Orlesian nobility might have no choice but to concede to negotiations. It would finally give Celene and Bria some even ground in their relationship. 

[Darth Krytie]

It'll be the one thing that can make the book not horrible, so...

 

For Celene and Briala to meet again on more equal footing. With Briala not being Celene's subordinate. I have grabby hands all over that.

 

It does make me wonder if the Inquisitor can affect (or if the game at all will address) Celene's rule. If she'll maintain it or be deposed. I'm very curious about that.

[Darth Krytie]

I had actually included exactly that in my list, but deleted it because I think the scope of divergence in the big-picture outcomes is likely to be limited, the occasional discontinued outcome notwithstanding.
 

 

I think if it doesn't go there completely, it'll at least lean toward it. I do think that the world is slowly pushing towards having more equal footing between the elves and the humans, especially given some things Darrah (or Laidlaw, I can't recall which) said about having an idea where they wanted DA to eventually get to...

 

I would like Celene and Briala to work things out. I sort of see it as a way for them to come together as equals instead of Empress and servant. Celene as an Empress and Briala as the leader of the city elves. If Briala shakes things up enough, the Orlesian nobility might have no choice but to concede to negotiations. It would finally give Celene and Bria some even ground in their relationship. 

Apparently, we're on the same page. We posted at the same time. I like it.

[Ieldra]

If this continues, I'll have to disown my own thread. Not five posts, and it's already being hijacked by the stuff I wanted to avoid. Don't you have the other thread for that?

[Wolfen09]

briala's elves will be a big part of the war in orlais, my belief is that the inquisitor will have the choice of helping them or crushing them...  however i see as more of a combination of the brecilican forest and orzamar quest lines from origins...  you pick a ruler to side with, then decide to help the elves or crush them....

 

as for the main bad guy, i agree with the entity from the epilogue being a major player.  As for the whole connection to fen harel, i really dont think they would bring a god character out, but i wont deny that its a possibility

[Ieldra]

as for the main bad guy, i agree with the entity from the epilogue being a major player.  As for the whole connection to fen harel, i really dont think they would bring a god character out, but i wont deny that its a possibility

Neither do I think so, but Felassan giving Briala that mark appears to be significant in some way. So I think maybe lore or magic connected to stories of the elven pantheon might come in somewhere, pointing at some historical core of the old myths without revealing the "truth of the gods".  

 

@Darth Krytie:

It's possible that Briala's elves and Celene's faction will come to an agreement, but I doubt this will happen before DAI's main events. I think it rather more likely that the Inquisitor will be able to influence how things go.

[Darth Krytie]

If this continues, I'll have to disown my own thread. Not five posts, and it's already being hijacked by the stuff I wanted to avoid. Don't you have the other thread for that?

 

Apologies.

 

I'll rephrase it then. I wonder if the Inquisitor will have a hand in deciding the fate of the Orlesian Civil War. I wonder if that'll be decided at all in the game. Can we influence that or will it just be background.

[Wolfen09]

after reading TME, it seems to me like the mage v templar war will take a major back seat...  since the game is almost exclusively in orlais, it would make sense to focus on the civil war and not a war that spans all of thedas, even if many major players in the mage v templar war are in orlais

[Ieldra]

@Darth Krytie:

I would be very surprised if we couldn't influence the fate of Orlais. The more interesting question is how independent the fate of Orlais will be from the main plot events. Will choosing one particularly direction in the civil war predispose us towards a specific direction in the main plot or vice versa?

 

@Wolfen:

Likely the Fade tears will affect a specific area rather than all of Thedas. So what we have may be much like the Blight: a conflict that could engulf all of Thedas if not contained.

[lil yonce]

I think the Inquisitor will become involved in the Game to some significant end in DA:I as a player or as a willing and unwilling pawn, or even all of those things, and all of the main factions will have a part in this Game. Perhaps playing it well will net the Inquisition all kinds of goodies like coin, weapons and armor, information, alliances, status, power, etc, and perhaps not playing it well can leave the Inquisition ham-stringed. I really want to go hunting in the countryside with a bunch of nobles, and I want a "hunting accident" to occur in my favor...

[TK514]

Given Gaider has said many times that choices are meant to matter in the games they are made rather than handcuffing the writers in future games, I expect Briala will be forced to compromise or be crushed.  Since the plot is 'stop the veil tears', not 'destroy Orlesian society and economy', anything that prevents us from bringing the Civil War to a close and gaining Orlesian support, like a third faction stupidly trying to prolong it in the face of global catastrophe, will have to step aside or be stepped on.

 

This could, however, be the beginning of a change in the status quo for the elves.  I doubt the writers are so ham handed that they would make a major change to Thedas, like the elves being given a new homeland or full equality, as part of a side quest over the course of one game.  Instead, this is the sort of thing I would expect them to build up over multiple games, and this is the opportunity to start that.

[Xilizhra]

Given Gaider has said many times that choices are meant to matter in the games they are made rather than handcuffing the writers in future games, I expect Briala will be forced to compromise or be crushed.  Since the plot is 'stop the veil tears', not 'destroy Orlesian society and economy', anything that prevents us from bringing the Civil War to a close and gaining Orlesian support, like a third faction stupidly trying to prolong it in the face of global catastrophe, will have to step aside or be stepped on.

 

This could, however, be the beginning of a change in the status quo for the elves.  I doubt the writers are so ham handed that they would make a major change to Thedas, like the elves being given a new homeland or full equality, as part of a side quest over the course of one game.  Instead, this is the sort of thing I would expect them to build up over multiple games, and this is the opportunity to start that.

Briala alone? I think not. If she works with someone else, both sides would have to compromise.

And now is exactly the time for major changes.

[Ieldra]

Given Gaider has said many times that choices are meant to matter in the games they are made rather than handcuffing the writers in future games, I expect Briala will be forced to compromise or be crushed.  Since the plot is 'stop the veil tears', not 'destroy Orlesian society and economy', anything that prevents us from bringing the Civil War to a close and gaining Orlesian support, like a third faction stupidly trying to prolong it in the face of global catastrophe, will have to step aside or be stepped on.

 

This could, however, be the beginning of a change in the status quo for the elves.  I doubt the writers are so ham handed that they would make a major change to Thedas, like the elves being given a new homeland or full equality, as part of a side quest over the course of one game.  Instead, this is the sort of thing I would expect them to build up over multiple games, and this is the opportunity to start that.

On the other hand, the Fire From Above trailer indicates that the decisions we could make may be pretty big. Since they need a lesser scope of divergence affecting future games in order to not "handcuffing their writers" too much, that's why I considered the possibility of discontinued outcomes. 

 

Also, the primary direction taken by Orlais could be anything. Its destruction as a nation may be as much foreordained as "the elven rebellion is doomed to insignficance" or "a reasonable accomodation is reached that benefits all sides but the racists".

[azarhal]

Given Gaider has said many times that choices are meant to matter in the games they are made rather than handcuffing the writers in future games, I expect Briala will be forced to compromise or be crushed.  Since the plot is 'stop the veil tears', not 'destroy Orlesian society and economy', anything that prevents us from bringing the Civil War to a close and gaining Orlesian support, like a third faction stupidly trying to prolong it in the face of global catastrophe, will have to step aside or be stepped on.

 

That is if the Inquisition needs Orlesian support, which I'm starting to doubt since yesterday when BioWare announced an entire map, the Highland, as optional despite a Masked Empire character being there and being a large war camp for the Red Templars one of the antagonists of the game.

[Ieldra]

That is if the Inquisition needs Orlesian support, which I'm starting to doubt since yesterday when BioWare announced an entire map, the Highland, as optional despite a Masked Empire character being there and being a large war camp for the Red Templars one of the antagonists of the game.

While we may not strictly need Orlesian support, I'm sure we'd benefit from it. It could be the ultimate outcome we get with little support from factions x,y,z is equal to low-EMS Destroy. A win. Technically. We totally didn't need Orlesian support to close the Veil tears, no...

[Iakus]

(4) While the elven Inquisitor will be Dalish, the Dalish as a faction will play a lesser part in the story compared to the city elves. It appears plausible that no Inquisitor background will strongly predispose players towards a specific faction.

 

I'm not so sure about that last part.  I'm pretty sure we've been told that there will be a great deal of reactivity to the Inquisitor's race, and some actions may be near-impossible to accomplish based on race.  I'd say the Inquisitor background will not completely block off factions, but it will certainly make gaining aid from certain factions easier/harder.

 

More likely I'd say gaining the aid of Dalish clans will not lend military aid, but something more akin to intelligence or support.  There are far fewer Dalish than city elves, after all.

[TK514]

On the other hand, the Fire From Above trailer indicates that the decisions we could make may be pretty big. Since they need a lesser scope of divergence affecting future games in order to not "handcuffing their writers" too much, that's why I considered the possibility of discontinued outcomes. 

 

Also, the primary direction taken by Orlais could be anything. Its destruction as a nation may be as much foreordained as "the elven rebellion is doomed to insignficance" or "a reasonable accomodation is reached that benefits all sides but the racists".

 

True, I would expect the destabilization of the social and political landscape of Thedas to fall firmly into the 'let the world burn' category.

 

On the other hand, what in the previous two games would suggest or foreshadow that the most powerful Empire in the known world was on the verge of social and economic collapse?  In fact, what in TME suggested to you that the City Elves of Orlais were in any way cohesive or united enough to take advantage of Briala's sudden windfall in the short time frame they are given?    Even as potentially powerful as the eluvians are, they aren't an I WIN button.  It will take time to convince anyone she's not insane, followed by time to organize the move out of the cities.  People are going to notice if large numbers of their servants and merchants disappear, and that doesn't count the elves who would betray their fellows for honor, love, or money.

 

Even if they did manage to disappear, then what?  What suggests that the city elves are even remotely prepared to take on even the light troops that would be guarding supplies while the armies were in battle, much less seasoned soldiers (or a third army or undead roaming the Exalted Plains)?  Recall that the only reason the elves in Halimshiral saw any success at all is because the lord of the city was intentionally limiting response in the hopes it would blow over and he wouldn't have to do anything harsher.

 

On top of all that, recall that the situation in Orlais is one of several crisis points in the game.  We still have the Templar/Mage war to deal with, plus whatever the Grey Wardens are up to that made Cass pay them a visit, plus a potential Kal-Shirok cameo and assuming that whatever we're doing in Western Ferelden isn't related to any of those.  Then there's the actual main plot itself, which has to tie into all of that.  To be honest, something like an elven homeland/equality or Mage freedom are big enough issues I would expect their conclusions to be the focus of a game in and of themselves.  To relegate them to side quests while 'more important' things are going on cheapens them, and their resolution takes a great deal of the conflict out of the setting, which isn't particularly good for the lifespan of the franchise.

[Xilizhra]

True, I would expect the destabilization of the social and political landscape of Thedas to fall firmly into the 'let the world burn' category.

 

On the other hand, what in the previous two games would suggest or foreshadow that the most powerful Empire in the known world was on the verge of social and economic collapse?  In fact, what in TME suggested to you that the City Elves of Orlais were in any way cohesive or united enough to take advantage of Briala's sudden windfall in the short time frame they are given?    Even as potentially powerful as the eluvians are, they aren't an I WIN button.  It will take time to convince anyone she's not insane, followed by time to organize the move out of the cities.  People are going to notice if large numbers of their servants and merchants disappear, and that doesn't count the elves who would betray their fellows for honor, love, or money.

 

Even if they did manage to disappear, then what?  What suggests that the city elves are even remotely prepared to take on even the light troops that would be guarding supplies while the armies were in battle, much less seasoned soldiers (or a third army or undead roaming the Exalted Plains)?  Recall that the only reason the elves in Halimshiral saw any success at all is because the lord of the city was intentionally limiting response in the hopes it would blow over and he wouldn't have to do anything harsher.

 

On top of all that, recall that the situation in Orlais is one of several crisis points in the game.  We still have the Templar/Mage war to deal with, plus whatever the Grey Wardens are up to that made Cass pay them a visit, plus a potential Kal-Shirok cameo and assuming that whatever we're doing in Western Ferelden isn't related to any of those.  Then there's the actual main plot itself, which has to tie into all of that.  To be honest, something like an elven homeland/equality or Mage freedom are big enough issues I would expect their conclusions to be the focus of a game in and of themselves.  To relegate them to side quests while 'more important' things are going on cheapens them, and their resolution takes a great deal of the conflict out of the setting, which isn't particularly good for the lifespan of the franchise.

Obviously the city elves would never win in a straight-up war. Luckily, this is not that; the plague of demons is probably going to be Orlais' first priority, and the whole thing could in theory be resolved by negotiation from the Inquisition (after all, if we need the Eluvians, we'll have to back Briala's faction), or, failing that, a brief participation in the war.

 

In any case, it's far too race-specific to be the focus for its own game when we now have dwarf and Vashoth PCs, and will likely not be getting rid of them anytime soon. I don't see it as "cheapening," nor do I see it removing conflict; even if we remain mired in Andrastian Thedas in the next game, which I hope we're not, there's plenty of conflict potential if human reactionaries come along trying to destabilize any elven state.

[Wolfen09]

@ ieldra

 

sorry for not specifying on that, i was referring to the mage v templar war in all of thedas, not the veil tear...  my bad

[azarhal]

plus a potential Kal-Shirok cameo

 

Kal-Shirok is north of Nevarran lands (the Blasted Hills), if we are not going to Nevarra despite it being right beside Orlais, we are certainly not going across Nevarran territory to Kal-Shirok.