1992 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

Just gonna transplant this from a post I made in the other thread:

 

I'm totally spit-balling here, so indulge me for a second. It was interesting to me how Imshael gave a red crystal to Celene to reawaken the mirrors. Connection?

[Ieldra]

Somniari are supposed to be able to kill people in their dreams by controlling the Fade around them.  Maybe his master did the same to him.
 
Though being a Dreamer himself, that would mean his master would have to be very, very, powerful...
 
Edit:  Or maybe someone else killed him in the waking world while his master was giving him the "You have failed me" speech

I think it is linked to DAI's main antagonist, maybe it *is* DAI's main antagonist, so of course it would be very powerful.

[AresKeith]

I think it is linked to DAI's main antagonist, maybe it *is* DAI's main antagonist, so of course it would be very powerful.

Antagonist(s)

[Sir JK]

I think it is linked to DAI's main antagonist, maybe it *is* DAI's main antagonist, so of course it would be very powerful.

 

It's certainly set up as if it is.

[Iakus]

Missed a ton of updates, but what I've been wondering is how can briala realistically be a third option. Yes she has the eluvians, but where's her army? She doesn't like the Dalish, why would the city elves listen to a complete stranger who wants them to step into a giant glowing mirror portal? Especially if any of them know she used to be the girlfriend of the empress who just put a city full of rebellious elves to death? Furthermore, how can the eluvians prolong the war? Sure she can move elves along, but who's gonna be dumb enough to match an army through an eluvian controlled by someone who's goals are entirely detrimental to yours. The only realistic option I can see is her bargaining the use of the eluvians to the inquisitor for allowing elves to join your forces/be under your protection.

 

I don't think she intends to take the throne.  Just carve out a piece for the elves.  She doeesn't need an army, she just needs Celene and Gaspard at each others' throats so they stay too busy to interfere.   

 

ANd the city elves don't know about her relationship with Celene.  The only people left alive who know are Celene herself, Gaspard, and Michel (well, and Imshael, I guess)

[efd731]

I don't think she intends to take the throne. Just carve out a piece for the elves. She doeesn't need an army, she just needs Celene and Gaspard at each others' throats so they stay too busy to interfere.

ANd the city elves don't know about her relationship with Celene. The only people left alive who know are Celene herself, Gaspard, and Michel (well, and Imshael, I guess)

But carving still involves knives. I get that as long as "mommy and daddy" are fighting she can operate unhindered. But what can she really do? The Dales are a spirit ridden wasteland ATM, no other Orlesian area has any significance for them, and if they attempted to take a city gaspard and celene would quickly find they have larger worries.

[Iakus]

But carving still involves knives. I get that as long as "mommy and daddy" are fighting she can operate unhindered. But what can she really do? The Dales are a spirit ridden wasteland ATM, no other Orlesian area has any significance for them, and if they attempted to take a city gaspard and celene would quickly find they have larger worries.

 

I guess this depends on which piece of Orlais Briala intends to carve out.

[LobselVith8]

Missed a ton of updates, but what I've been wondering is how can briala realistically be a third option. Yes she has the eluvians, but where's her army?

 

I get the impression that Briala will use the Eluvians to hinder either side in the civil war from a total victory, in order to open up the opportunity for the status quo to be revoked and for the elves to empower themselves. That would explain why she didn't let Celene return to the capital.

 

She doesn't like the Dalish, why would the city elves listen to a complete stranger who wants them to step into a giant glowing mirror portal? Especially if any of them know she used to be the girlfriend of the empress who just put a city full of rebellious elves to death?

 

Briala only knew Clan Virehn (who were atypical of the Dalish in even summoning a spirit), and she still extends the offer to Mihris to accept Dalish aid in helping all the elves.

 

Furthermore, how can the eluvians prolong the war? Sure she can move elves along, but who's gonna be dumb enough to match an army through an eluvian controlled by someone who's goals are entirely detrimental to yours. The only realistic option I can see is her bargaining the use of the eluvians to the inquisitor for allowing elves to join your forces/be under your protection.

 

As Briala points out, she can warn a specific group about an impending army, or deal with supply lines that a military force is dependent on. As for who would help her, I'd imagine that after the massacre of thousands of elves, there would be plenty of people who want to permanently dissolve the status quo. The elven massacre at Halamshiral might the equivalent to the Annulment of the Circle of Kirkwall for the Circle mages, showing how far the injustice can go (from the point of view of the elves who disagree with Celene's actions).

[Milan92]

As Briala points out, she can warn a specific group about an impending army, or deal with supply lines that a military force is dependent on. As for who would help her, I'd imagine that after the massacre of thousands of elves, there would be plenty of people who want to permanently dissolve the status quo. The elven massacre at Halamshiral might the equivalent to the Annulment of the Circle of Kirkwall for the Circle mages, showing how far the injustice can go (from the point of view of the elves who disagree with Celene's actions).

 

But won't that at some point seem a bit odd? If she keeps informing both sides, at some point someone will notice that she is playing both sides. Then they might as well focus their attention on her. I assume you didn't mean her warning Celene of a certain attack from Gaspard and vice versa right? Because they are not idiots.

[LobselVith8]

But won't that at some point seem a bit odd? If she keeps informing both sides, at some point someone will notice that she is playing both sides. Then they might as well focus their attention on her. I assume you didn't mean her warning Celene of a certain attack from Gaspard and vice versa right? Because they are not idiots.

 

It's what Briala tells Felassan when she explains how she can utilize the Eluvians (from feeding the hungry in the Alienage to warning specific groups about impending dangers), although she doesn't provide specifics on who she would warn. Felassan also notes her interest in using the Eluvians to help empower her people.

[Milan92]

It's what Briala tells Felassan when she explains how she can utilize the Eluvians (from feeding the hungry in the Alienage to warning specific groups about impending dangers), although she doesn't provide specifics on who she would warn. Felassan also notes her interest in using the Eluvians to help empower her people.

 

Ah I see.

[stuffystuffs]

But carving still involves knives. I get that as long as "mommy and daddy" are fighting she can operate unhindered. But what can she really do? The Dales are a spirit ridden wasteland ATM, no other Orlesian area has any significance for them, and if they attempted to take a city gaspard and celene would quickly find they have larger worries.

 

I was of the impression that she really doesn't have a plan besides sitting back and waiting for an opportunity to do...something...in order to help the elves out.

 

I don't see anything wrong with that.  Briala may see things more clearly as the war progresses.

 

So what can she do?  Wait it out.  As Lobselvith mentions, she can also help save elves from getting caught in the cross-fire, so to speak.  Plus, at the start of DA:I, she can use the portal system to save them from the hot mess involving Fade tears (or from the stuff that comes out of them).

[efd731]

^^^see that I get, but it still doesn't make complete sense.(referring to lob) they are fast travel sure, by someone's still got
To view the event and run back to briala and have her send them through the eluvian. And what's stopping the seperate sides
From holding onto the couriers and torturing them for info. Or usin them as bargaining chips, or killing them outright in frustration for prolonging a civil war during the apocalypse when their aid could possible end the war in one parties favor (while giving the elves a bargaining chip for much better social position.)

[LobselVith8]

Ah I see.

 

If you're curious, Briala specifically says, "Celene and Gaspard saw an army, but that would be fighting their fight. With the paths, I could get food to alienages where elves would otherwise starve. They would let me move ahead of an incoming army and warn the target, or move behind them and attack their supply lines."

[LobselVith8]

^^^see that I get, but it still doesn't make complete sense.(referring to lob) they are fast travel sure, by someone's still got
To view the event and run back to briala and have her send them through the eluvian. And what's stopping the seperate sides
From holding onto the couriers and torturing them for info. Or usin them as bargaining chips, or killing them outright in frustration for prolonging a civil war during the apocalypse when their aid could possible end the war in one parties favor (while giving the elves a bargaining chip for much better social position.)

 

Gaspard and Celene are already aware of what the Eluvians can do, but Briala is the only one informed with the passphrase necessary to use them. And the veil tears haven't taken place at the time that Briala is preparing to help her people free themselves. By the time the veil tears become an issue for Orlais, the Inquisitor may become involved in helping one of the three parties once the cataclysm in the Beyond has taken place - with the player having the option to help Celene, Gaspard, or Briala.

 

While everyone has their own feelings on what may eventually arise with Inquisition, I doubt that the developers would have provided an elven racial option, only to prohibit the player from siding with the elves.

[Milan92]

If you're curious, Briala specifically says, "Celene and Gaspard saw an army, but that would be fighting their fight. With the paths, I could get food to alienages where elves would otherwise starve. They would let me move ahead of an incoming army and warn the target, or move behind them and attack their supply lines."

 

Interesting. Thanks for the that! Looking forward to reading the book!

[Shadow Fox]

And interestingly, that's one of the lines Gaspard would never cross himself.

...*Makes plans to side with Gaspard*

[TheJediSaint]

I see Gaspard and Celene being similar to Harrowmont and Behlen from DAO.   One is more honorable but is also reactionary.  The other more progressive, but also more deceitful.

[Dean_the_Young]

It would be misleading, since Gaspard isn't a reactionary and Celene's progressivism is a bit overstated as an aspect of her relationship with Briala.

 

How much Celene would push racial reforms without her elven lover is unclear, but Gaspard isn't even campaigning on rolling them back.

[TheJediSaint]

Gaspard has a romantic view of Orlais' past, especially in regard to the occupation of Fereldan.  Reactionary is perhaps too strong a word, but he's definitely traditionalist.

 

Celene's progressivism isn't just in regards to the elves.  She's a patron of the arts and academia, after all.  Its true that she may not be as motivated to help the elves, but all her talk of making things easier for them was just part of her larger vision of a more "enlightened" Orlais.

[Dean_the_Young]

Gaspard has a romantic view of Orlais' past, especially in regard to the occupation of Fereldan.  Reactionary is perhaps too strong a word, but he's definitely traditionalist.

 

Celene's progressivism isn't just in regards to the elves.  She's a patron of the arts and academia, after all.  Its true that she may not be as motivated to help the elves, but all her talk of making things easier for them was just part of her larger vision of a more "enlightened" Orlais.

 

Gaspard's traditionalism focuses on Chavalier values, not normal social values or prejudices.

[TheJediSaint]

Of course.  The Chevaliers have a culture all their own, distinct even from that of the other nobility.  That was well illustrated by his conflict with Remache.  But given those values, I think it would be safe to say than an Orlais under Gaspard would be more conservative and more aggressive than it would be under Celene.  Which isn't to say one is better than the other, Celene is no angel after all.

[Cobra's_back]

I get the impression that Briala will use the Eluvians to hinder either side in the civil war from a total victory, in order to open up the opportunity for the status quo to be revoked and for the elves to empower themselves. That would explain why she didn't let Celene return to the capital.

 

 

Briala only knew Clan Virehn (who were atypical of the Dalish in even summoning a spirit), and she still extends the offer to Mihris to accept Dalish aid in helping all the elves.

 

 

As Briala points out, she can warn a specific group about an impending army, or deal with supply lines that a military force is dependent on. As for who would help her, I'd imagine that after the massacre of thousands of elves, there would be plenty of people who want to permanently dissolve the status quo. The elven massacre at Halamshiral might the equivalent to the Annulment of the Circle of Kirkwall for the Circle mages, showing how far the injustice can go (from the point of view of the elves who disagree with Celene's actions).

 

 

I agree 100%. The haven't finished reading this book yet but she has to take this on her own and win the freedom for the CE. She knows Celene plays the game and will tell her anything then throw her under the bus again. 

 

If I'm an Inquisitor, I helping the elves. I just can't stand how they treat them and I'll do it as a human as well.

[Cobra's_back]

Well, for one he can be reasoned with, and he keeps his word once given.  For another, he's going to be fairly powerless to follow through for some time given Civil Wars are pretty hard on standing armies, what with them fighting and killing fellow Orlesians, friends and family, rather than foreign soldiers.  The Exalted Plain preview seems to suggest the fighting is particularly brutal, so it may take years to rebuild.  Lastly, he doesn't appear to be particularly racist, nor is class as important to him as merit.  He's really quite egalitarian, all things considered.

 

If Celene has her way he is dead. 

[Dean_the_Young]

If Celene has her way he is dead. 

 

If Celene had her way Celene would not have her way because what Celene wants in one context is countered by what she wants in another.