1992 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Of course.  The Chevaliers have a culture all their own, distinct even from that of the other nobility.  That was well illustrated by his conflict with Remache.  But given those values, I think it would be safe to say than an Orlais under Gaspard would be more conservative and more aggressive than it would be under Celene.  Which isn't to say one is better than the other, Celene is no angel after all.

 

Aggressive? Certainly. Conservative? That depends- the meritocratic attitude and lack of reactionary impulses might not spur an active instigation of reforms, but reforms that could be sold on their own merit would be viable if raised/proposed by others.

 

TK has raised the prospect of a Gaspard-Celene alliance, but personally I could also see a Gaspard-Briala alliance as well, in which Briala trades elven/her own support to Gaspard in exchange for elven rights. Certainly a bargain made with Gaspard might be harder to strike, but once struck it would be less prone to rollback by the person who agreed to it.

 

Progress versus conservatism is a relative measure, and the big question comes from Celene's own aspects. How much is she actually willing to initiate liberalism without Briala to spur her? And how willing is she to not compromise reforms already made if/when political tides turn?

[jtav]

Just finished the book. Gaspard won me over by not caring about Michel's heritage and because I'm a sucker for the type. Celene strikes me as moderately reformist and extremely but also cold-blooded in a way I find chilling. I don't think either is a bad choice, but for now I go with Gaspard. I also hope to see Michel again, and help him slay his de--choice spirit. Who is probably the funniest character in the book.

[TheJediSaint]

@ Dean.

 

Whether Celene keeps pushing Orlais in the same direction without Briala is an open question, but it's safe to say that she's the more progressive leader.

 

The only thing that Gaspard wants to change about Orlais is who rules it.  (Answer: Him).  Beyond that, he has no interest in reforming Orlais, but expanding it.

[wcholcombe]

If Celene had her way Celene would not have her way because what Celene wants in one context is countered by what she wants in another.

I don't know, being forced to do something she doesn't want to in order to maintain power hardly makes her wishy washy. She is committed to social improvement of Orlais and Briala or no Briala she still wants to improve the lot of the CEs as she sees them as Orlesian citizens.

Gaspard on the other hand views them as little more then animals.

[TK514]

Gaspard on the other hand views them as little more then animals.

 

Demonstrably untrue, as illustrated several times in the book.

[Hellion Rex]

Demonstrably untrue, as illustrated several times in the book.

Yup, considering he praises Briala's skills as Celene's spymaster, as well as keeps the elven-blooded Michel's secret. He may treat elves as he would any other poor commoner in Orlais, he doesn't even remotely consider them to be animals.

[Giggles_Manically]

Anyone else afraid that Gaspard vs Celene will be the new Harrowmont vs Bhelen fodder?

 

Not Loghain level though that dude stole every thread.

I admit I once derailed a thread on another forum by mentioning Loghain.

 

He is kinda like the Mishapocolypse

[Hellion Rex]

Anyone else afraid that Gaspard vs Celene will be the new Harrowmont vs Bhelen fodder?

Doubt it. I'm really liking both characters, versus where I honestly didn't give two sh*ts about Harrowmont and Bhelen. In my opinion, these two are much better characters, so no I'm not even remotely worried.

[Iakus]

Demonstrably untrue, as illustrated several times in the book.

 

The major difference between Celene and Gaspard is Celene will stab you in the back if you get in her way.  Gaspard, however, will stab you in the face

[Hellion Rex]

The major difference between Celene and Gaspard is Celene will stab you in the back if you get in her way.  Gaspard, however, will stab you in the face

In that regard, I'm more scared of Celene than Gaspard.

[Cobra's_back]

Okay did Felassan really work for Fen Harel?

[Hellion Rex]

Okay did Felassan really work for Fen Harel?

Unknown. It was hinted at, but never confirmed who his boss actually was.

[jtav]

In that regard, I'm more scared of Celene than Gaspard.

In that regard, I'm more scared of Celene than Gaspard.

Yeah, if she can do what she did to Briala, what will she do to me? Gaspard has his code and seems to really believe it. Celene's pretty great in her own way. I just prefer Gaspard.

[Cobra's_back]

If Celene had her way Celene would not have her way because what Celene wants in one context is countered by what she wants in another.

 

Will she look at that fairly or will she think her cousin is too dangerous? She is more likely to stab you in the back and more likely to want to eliminate a threat.

[TheJediSaint]

I liked both Gaspard and Celene, even if they're both kind of despicable people.  It'll be interesting to see how they're realized in game.

[Cobra's_back]

I can appreciate that Gaspard has honor. I just can't support him if he doesn't change the way he treats the CE.

 

Celene is just too untrustworthy for me to support. I can't believe what she did to Briala. Celene is a bloody viper.

 

I wonder how this will change Briala.

[Iakus]

Unknown. It was hinted at, but never confirmed who his boss actually was.

 

I'm holding out hope his boss was Morrigan 

[wcholcombe]

Demonstrably untrue, as illustrated several times in the book.

Really? His stated preference to just kill the warehouse owner if he could have gotten away with it, his stated views on elves at the end of the book, his conversation with the lord of hamlishirral,he is an honorable man, and on an individual basis can appreciate the abilities and merits of an elf, but he very much sees them as bring beneath humans and occupying the spacethey deserve.

[TheJediSaint]

I doubt we'll ever get a straight answer from Bioware about who Felassan worked for.  They enjoy seeing us squirm to much to do that.

[TheJediSaint]

Really? His stated preference to just kill the warehouse owner if he could have gotten away with it, his stated views on elves at the end of the book, his conversation with the lord of hamlishirral,he is an honorable man, and on an individual basis can appreciate the abilities and merits of an elf, but he very much sees them as bring beneath humans and occupying the spacethey deserve.

 

I think Gaspard considers anyone who isn't a Chevalier beneath him.  The only character he really treats as an equal is Michel.

[wcholcombe]

Aggressive? Certainly. Conservative? That depends- the meritocratic attitude and lack of reactionary impulses might not spur an active instigation of reforms, but reforms that could be sold on their own merit would be viable if raised/proposed by others.
 
TK has raised the prospect of a Gaspard-Celene alliance, but personally I could also see a Gaspard-Briala alliance as well, in which Briala trades elven/her own support to Gaspard in exchange for elven rights. Certainly a bargain made with Gaspard might be harder to strike, but once struck it would be less prone to rollback by the person who agreed to it.
 
Progress versus conservatism is a relative measure, and the big question comes from Celene's own aspects. How much is she actually willing to initiate liberalism without Briala to spur her? And how willing is she to not compromise reforms already made if/when political tides turn?

Considering she still thinks about helping the elves at the end of the book after Burial as move, I think she is still committed.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think Gaspard considers anyone who isn't a Chevalier beneath him.  The only character he really treats as an equal is Michel.

 

He showed a lot of respect to Ramache and even made a point of apologizing to him for not realizing right away that "there is honor outside the Chevaliers."

[The Elder King]

I doubt we'll ever get a straight answer from Bioware about who Felassan worked for.  They enjoy seeing us squirm to much to do that.

It depends. Felassan's boss might be one of the antagonists in DAI.

[MWImexico]

In that regard, I'm more scared of Celene than Gaspard.

 

One way to avoid that would be to make sure that the ruler we pick in one playthrough is the one who share the same political view than our Inquisitor in that same playthrough. Less chances to rub Gaspard or Celene in the wrong way if you know where you step.

 

 

***

On another topic, if I remember well, didn't DG said that there will be no political weddings in DAI? Anyways, personnaly I don't see a marriage between Gaspard and Celene work, they are like fire and water, too dangerous for each other.

 

Edit :
Also, they both symbolise two differents approaches for the political future of Orlais :

Celene : progressive in the arts and culture, master of the Game, in favor of an improvement of the elfs' condition (but not at any cost, also this improvement will be slow and difficult if Celene rules alone). If the elves want to rise in society, they will have to prove themselves "worthy" in cultural / intellectual realms. The main enemy of Celene's progressive view is the Orlesian nobility who actually seems to be closer to Gaspard in their way of thinking (and who will oppose her if she push them too hard).

Gaspard : more concervative of the traditions of Orlais, want's to bring power and glory to Orlais through war and conquests. The only way for elves to win something will be to fight for it and prove themselves "worthy" in Gaspard eyes. If Gaspard rules alone, he might distract the inccessant complaints of the nobility and their silly Game by offering them more power and wealth thanks to Ferelden's conquest (though I'm not sure it's financially preferable to take Ferelden than to start an alience with them?). Also, until now, we didn't have the possibility to see what sort of ruler Gaspard could be and if he will be fit for the job.  

Add to this Briala. I think that, at the start of DAI, she will already have gathered some power in her side. That would be enough to use as leverage and bargain with the Inquisitor and the futur ruler of Orlais.

 

Edit 2 : Also, I think this :
-Political advantage for the Inquisitor : Celene > Gaspard
-Military advantage for the Inquisitor : Gaspard > Celene

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Felessan seemed to know the Veil Tears were coming. Imsahel even kind of hinted at them as if they were something Felessan was going to cause.