1992 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

"Cashing in Michel's debt to her, making him spare Gaspard's life, and making him technically betray Celene."

 

Yup sounds totally like she didn't force him at all. Not to mention the fact that this is just a summoning of what happend. Its not the actual dialogue. 

 

I suggest. Xil. that you actually read the book before you make judgements like these again.

Was it blood magic? Or was she perchance strong enough to grapple him and yank his arms away from Gaspard, despite not needing a favor to actually accomplish either of those? Was she able to convince him that she would kill him otherwise?

[The Elder King]

If true, I'm guessing he'll be part of an optional quest to deal with Is-Ish.   The Demon-No, Spirit thing.

There was a speculation that Ishmael might be related to the Red templars, and that Michel is in the Highlands to find info about it.
Though yes, it's possible that Ishmael is in that location too.

[Milan92]

Was it blood magic? Or was she perchance strong enough to grapple him and yank his arms away from Gaspard, despite not needing a favor to actually accomplish either of those? Was she able to convince him that she would kill him otherwise?

 

Since when is magic needed to "make" somebody do things?

[Xilizhra]

Since when is magic needed to "make" somebody do things?

That's why I included two nonmagical ways in which it could also be accomplished. However, manipulating someone's honor does not, in my mind, count as "forcing" them.

[Milan92]

That's why I included two nonmagical ways in which it could also be accomplished. However, manipulating someone's honor does not, in my mind, count as "forcing" them.

 

And its very sweet of you to think that way, but that doesn't change the fact that your precious Briala still forced him to do something.

[MWImexico]

If true, I'm guessing he'll be part of an optional quest to deal with Is-Ish.   The Demon-No, Spirit thing.

 

I hope we won't meet Mich-mael the merged. I rather wish a nicer ending for Michel than become an abomination.
...although the good news about that is we still could loot his body to console ourselves with Celene's magical rings.

[Iakus]

That's why I included two nonmagical ways in which it could also be accomplished. However, manipulating someone's honor does not, in my mind, count as "forcing" them.

 

In this case it does.

 

Honor is literally the most important thing in Michel's life.  It's important to all chevaliers, but it goes beyond that for him. He has to be "Better than the best, if only to avoid suspicion" as Ashley Williams would say.

[Xilizhra]

And its very sweet of you to think that way, but that doesn't change the fact that your precious Briala still forced him to do something.

Thank you for your opinion.

 

 

In this case it does.

 

Honor is literally the most important thing in Michel's life.  It's important to all chevaliers, but it goes beyond that for him. He has to be "Better than the best, if only to avoid suspicion" as Ashley Williams would say.

Then it would be trivial for him to say "sorry, I have a preexisting oath that later oaths can't compete with."

[TheJediSaint]

Since when is blackmail magic?

[Iakus]

 

Then it would be trivial for him to say "sorry, I have a preexisting oath that later oaths can't compete with."

 

I admit it was foolish of him not to stipulate that when he gave his word.  Or at least insist the favor shouldn't go against Celene's interests.  But he didn't, and ended up stuck with it.  As Briala knew.

[Wolfen09]

ignoring the discussion in the peanut gallery, more than likely if we see him in the highlands, he will be a major minor character, kind of like shiani or gorim in origins... they dont really do anything, but they are more developed characters than the other random people in the city

[TheJediSaint]

ignoring the discussion in the peanut gallery, more than likely if we see him in the highlands, he will be a major minor character, kind of like shiani or gorim in origins... they dont really do anything, but they are more developed characters than the other random people in the city

 

Based on what Mike Laidlaw said at the Pax panel, assuming it is in fact Michel, it will basically be a "Hey, its that guy from the thing!" moment for people who read TME.

[Xilizhra]

I admit it was foolish of him not to stipulate that when he gave his word.  Or at least insist the favor shouldn't go against Celene's interests.  But he didn't, and ended up stuck with it.  As Briala knew.

Still, though, it was his choice based on his personal priorities, not one that was coerced via force.

[Iakus]

Still, though, it was his choice based on his personal priorities, not one that was coerced via force.

 

He'd have had an easier time of it if it was coerced by physical force.  This was a no-win scenerio for him.  And Briala knew it.  So he took what was to him the "least bad" option:  sparing Gascard and leaving Celene's service (as he knows he can no longer be fully trusted). 

[Xilizhra]

He'd have had an easier time of it if it was coerced by physical force.  This was a no-win scenerio for him.  And Briala knew it.  So he took what was to him the "least bad" option:  sparing Gascard and leaving Celene's service (as he knows he can no longer be fully trusted). 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he sort of a racist ass?

[AresKeith]

Since when is blackmail magic?

 

Apparently it is now

 

@Xil have you atleast read the synopsis of Masked Empire?

[LobselVith8]

I dislike elves as much as anyone but it's kind of hard to justify siding against the powerless lower class when their only request is "Please stop coming to our side of the city and purging it."

I think that's one of the primary reasons that Briala has to resort to using the Eluvians as a means of empowering the elves during the conflict - because there's no alternative to ending the status quo imposed on the elves. Unless the elves do something to change this imbalance, nothing will change.

On the other hand, if they are prolonging a civil war through the use of arcane artifacts, then they suddenly become a much more acceptable target.

Unless you agree that the elves deserve rights.

[Master Warder Z_]

Unless you agree that the elves deserve rights.

 

They have rights, More so then Qunari, Darkspawn or Mages.

 

Take what you can get

 

Also factor in that armed conflict rarely ever results in improvements on "rights".

 

._.

[Iakus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he sort of a racist ass?

 

Michel?  Maybe.  But pretty sure it was at least partly an act.  He deliberately played up the "knife-ear" bit to conceal his elf-blooded heritage.  Human nobles are expected to act like that, after all. 

 

Not sure what this has to do with his duel with Gaspard though.

[LobselVith8]

if they hand over briala to be executed, they can burn down the whole of thedas for all i care... backstabbin b**** made ser michel abandon his duty

That's because Briala put her people first, and I greatly respect that. As she said (about the potential of the Eluvians): "Celene and Gaspard saw an army, but that would be fighting their fight. With the paths, I could get food to the Alienages where elves would otherwise starve. They would let me move ahead of an incoming army and warn the target, or move behind them and attack their supply lines."

As for Michel, his implied killing of elves in the chevalier initiation rite and his racism didn't endear him to me.

[TK514]

Unless you agree that the elves deserve rights.

The validity of the end goal has nothing to do with whether or not they are making themselves valid targets in an armed conflict. Briala's elves will be making themselves active participants in the civil war, and their actions will result in additional deaths on both sides. That is Briala's stated method. She's going to be making her people enemies of both sides, and both sides will be perfectly justified in retaliating against her.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's because Briala put her people first, and I greatly respect that. 

 

Because she's an elf, If Gaspard moved to enable Humanity, in a general sense, above Orlais become stronger, more dominant you wouldn't support it!

 

You Humans are all racist! 

As for Michel, his implied killing of elves in the chevalier initiation rite 

 

They are just elves.

 

They pop up again like weeds.

 

 

and his racism didn't endear him to me.

 

O_o Alright?

[Master Warder Z_]

The validity of the end goal has nothing to do with whether or not they are making themselves valid targets in an armed conflict. Briala's elves will be making themselves active participants in the civil war, and their actions will result in additional deaths on both sides. That is Briala's stated method. She's going to be making her people enemies of both sides, and both sides will be perfectly justified in retaliating against her.

 

I really do hope Orlais gets its **** together soon.

 

We will need them in the future, i have a feeling.

[Iakus]

As for Michel, his implied killing of elves in the chevalier initiation rite and his racism didn't endear him to me.

 

His sparing Mihris did help endear him to me.  Even if it came back to bite him later.

 

And like I said, I'm pretty sure at least part of his racism is a mask.

[TK514]

His sparing Mihris did help endear him to me.  Even if it came back to bite him later.
 
And like I said, I'm pretty sure at least part of his racism is a mask.

Considering it is explicitly stated it's a mask, I'm more than pretty sure.