I'm addressing that Briala taking action for a better future for the elves might bring about a better future for the elves.
Honestly, it's not that complicated.
And it will be on the backs of raped and murdered humans. How heroic.
And by your logic, if a chevalier killed 10 elves in his initation rite but then saved a hundred by being a soldier then the murders were justified.
Perhaps there's a reason you continually ignore the actual statement, and try to move the goalpost of the discussion?
Helping Briala end elven oppression is the focus of the statements. Helping bring an end to a system that systematically inflicts harm and death on elves is why it's brought up that future generations can thrive when as a consequence of this conflict. I don't see it as subjective at all.
As long as we ignore the nuances of the debates against the Chantry controlled Circles, of course.
Is there a purpose to this nonsensical statement? Because it has nothing to do with the discussion.
No offense Lob but your "helping Briala prolong the war helps the elves attain freedom so it's worth the many who will suffer and die from it" stance banks on humanity's generosity in letting them be and I doubt once it's learned two elves prolonged their suffering for personal gain they'd be inclined to look kindly on them.
And by your logic, if a chevalier killed 10 elves in his initation rite but then saved a hundred by being a soldier then the murders were justified.
Why couldn't Chevaliers just have initiates drink a gallon of milk out of a beer bong like other fraternities?
No offense Lob but your "helping Briala prolong the war helps the elves attain freedom so it's worth the many who will suffer and die from it" banks on humanity's generosity in letting them be and I doubt once it's learned two elves prolonged their suffering they'd be inclined to look kindly on them.
I agree somewhat. Let's say the elves "win". Next thing you know, Nevarra's knocking on the door, and with help of Mortalitasi I don't know if the elves could still win.
So technically i can kill my neighbor and his entire family then join the military and kill a bunch of terrorists thus saving millions of people and call it justified? Sweet, im gonna go pay my neighbor a visit
And going to the Circle from Redcliffe takes 15 seconds in-real time but in-game time is said to take close to a month.
how can it be a day then? The route to redcliffe is twice as long as it is to orzamar, they even take the same path with orzamar in the middle!
Unless Briala intends to upload her mind into a fleet of Reapers, I don't think she's going to be able to convince Orlesian humans and elves to live peacefully side by side under one nation
I don't know, anything can happen. Esclavagisme and racism are not extraterrestrial concepts, let's hope for an improvement since the situation is already defavorable for the elves.
I don't know, anything can happen. Esclavagisme and racism are not extraterrestrial concepts, let's hope for an improvement since the situation is already defavorable for the elves.
Just keeping in mind that Orlais is one of the nations where elves have it particularly bad. Probably worse than anywhere else but Tevinter.
Actually, it's about a day's journey. It takes roughly about two weeks to get from Orzammar to the Circle and back, as Dagna points out.
I stand corrected then. 
Still factoring in the time it'd take to save the Circle if you haven't done so already wouldn't it be closer to a week then?
I wonder how Nevarra would react to the elves "winning" over Orlais. Probably start drawing up war plans of their own to take advantage of the turmoil.
No offense Lob but your "helping Briala prolong the war helps the elves attain freedom so it's worth the many who will suffer and die from it" stance banks on humanity's generosity in letting them be and I doubt once it's learned two elves prolonged their suffering for personal gain they'd be inclined to look kindly on them.
I don't know, anything can happen. Esclavagisme and racism are not extraterrestrial concepts, let's hope for an improvement since the situation is already defavorable for the elves.
Using the eluvians in order to prolongue a conflict reaping human lives will not incite goodwill from them. At most, she will create a bitter peace where both sides resent each other tremendously but must live together.
Inevitably, this will lead to either Briala having to strengthen the elves and depower the humans in order to assure they never gain enough tract in society to punish the elves for their action during the war or to the humans regaining their former power and inflicting a thousand attrocities upon the elves. And justifiedly so this time around.
Yes, and Briala is trying to change this.
His life is partly build on a lie, and self hatred, this is wrong.
Good read. That was my take as well.
Why couldn't Chevaliers just have initiates drink a gallon of milk out of a beer bong like other fraternities?
"Hey John! John! Pass me that tea will you, old sport. Oh, and two suger please!"
Just keeping in mind that Orlais is one of the nations where elves have it particularly bad. Probably worse than anywhere else but Tevinter.
Yeah, I know, I was thinking that, with the tears in the veil and everything goind to hell around, maybe people will get so scared that they probably will accept a lot of things if it comes from their savior / figure of power / autority. So the Inquisitor. Especialy if the news spread that he/she is capable of closing the tears.
Add to that the possibility that the elf faction might actually help through the country if it rejoins the Inquisition. Also the Inquisitor could be an elf too.
The Warden could have been an elf. And the City Elf boon ends in disaster unless s/he take direct control of the alienage.
I agree somewhat. Let's say the elves "win". Next thing you know, Nevarra's knocking on the door, and with help of Mortalitasi I don't know if the elves could still win.
He was Celene's champion. Her personal bodyguard and her representative on the field of battle and duels of honor. Keeping her alive so she could implement her reforms (however incrementally they might come) is pretty much all he can do.
Or he could have thrown in with Briala.
She states she intends to play Celene and Gaspard off each other, dragging out the civil war as long as possible while she unites the alienages with the eluvians.
She wants her freedom. I think you can work something out with her if she doesn't lose her mind.
The Warden could have been an elf. And the City Elf boon ends in disaster unless s/he take direct control of the alienage.
Are you suggesting that whatever we do, elf and humans will never get along?
Ending injustice now so it isn't an issue for future generations is my stance.
You're welcome to disagree with it, but I'm not inclined to change my mind. When the opportunity arises to irrevocably change the future for countless generations for the better, I would prefer to seize it.
Of course, some humans will take issue with the elves having freedoms (which was also an issue for the elven Bann in Denerim), but I don't think it's sufficient for me to forsake helping an entire race simply because some racists are going to have problems with elves having rights.
But isn't allowing innocents to suffer for your cause also injustice?
That's my point for the Elves freedom to stick humanity has to allow it. What's stopping Orlais when it recovers from attacking the elves for revenge or even if Orlais falls what's to stop the neighboring human nations from attacking the elves for territory?
Or he could have thrown in with Briala.
Why would he when she had just made him betray his oath to the Empress?
Why would he when she had just made him betray his oath to the Empress?
The fact that he considered being a chevalier at all worthwhile with what he had to do to get there is a major part of the problem.
Are you suggesting that whatever we do, elf and humans will never get along?
Yes.
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