Anora explained him as an Idealist who learned what Idealism cost.
Makes sense i suppose, what with the war and all.
Sorry, Loghain was never idealistic. He was pragmatic and a realist yes. Idealistic.....no.
Idealists see the best of people, Loghain never saw that. Product of his upbringing.
Sorry, Loghain was never idealistic. He was pragmatic and a realist yes. Idealistic.....no.
Idealists see the best of people, Loghain never saw that. Product of his upbringing.
We actually never encounter him nor hear much of his upbringing, We really only get his perspective once he joins with the Rebellion and by then he was already assuming responsibility and leading men under his father, factor in the rigors of the following years and we honestly don't know if he was an Idealist at any point, I am of the mind that Anora spoke the truth of the matter.
He may have been an Idealist, but Realism serves far more utility in war, in fact a handful of his own admissions point towards an idealist viewpoint that is tempered by the rigors of knowing war and man's base nature. Such as him acknowledging that the Warden is capable of leading Fereldan to victory upon his defeat and believing to be better suited to the task then himself, Add in a few comments here and there about Alistair, His life and what you and you see or at least i did.
An Idealist who became a Cynic.
We actually never encounter him nor hear much of his upbringing, We really only get his perspective once he joins with the Rebellion and by then he was already assuming responsibility and leading men under his father, factor in the rigors of the following years and we honestly don't know if he was an Idealist at any point, I am of the mind that Anora spoke the truth of the matter.
He may have been an Idealist, but Realism serves far more utility in war, in fact a handful of his own admissions point towards an idealist viewpoint that is tempered by the rigors of knowing war and man's base nature. Such as him acknowledging that the Warden is capable of leading Fereldan to victory upon his defeat and believing to be better suited to the task then himself, Add in a few comments here and there about Alistair, His life and what you and you see or at least i did.
An Idealist who became a Cynic.
Granted, then in our experience, which is what I am referring to, he was never an idealist. I don't know how he was prior to them losing their land, so I was not commenting on that. As we know him, Loghain only exists from beginning of stolen throne to whatever fate has for him at end of DAO. In that span he is never an idealist.
Whereas for our entire knowledge of Celene she has been and still is an idealist. that was the context of the comparison that was made. If loghain was an idealist it was before we knew him as a child. Celene in her mid 30s is still an idealist.
Granted, then in our experience, which is what I am referring to, he was never an idealist. I don't know how he was prior to them losing their land, so I was not commenting on that. As we know him, Loghain only exists from begining of stolen throne to whatever fate has for him at end of DAO. In that span he is never an idealist.
Eh, I guess it depends upon interpretation and if you buy into an offhand comment by Anora i suppose.
Unless, of course, The Masked Empire was Celene's The Stolen Throne and she is gonna be all bitter and slightly crazy go nuts in Inquisition. I could see her going the way of Loghain fairly quickly. Without Briala, she tended to make some bad decisions. Or rather... after so long she has gotten used to using Briala as a crutch for a lot of her Game Playing. It will be interesting to see if she functions the same way without her.
Then I'm sure she'll appreciate a visit from the Inquisitor to help healing those wounds. Its for the good of the realm after all.
Then I'm sure she'll appreciate a visit from the Inquisitor to heal those wounds.
*snip*
Sorry, just loved your Satsuki avi 
I wonder if the story will leave any opportunity to undermine the mechanisms of the Game on a bigger scale.
I wouldn't even know where to begin. It'd be damn hard to damage a system so ingrained in the Orlesian mindset and culture.
I wouldn't even know where to begin. It'd be damn hard to damage a system so ingrained in the Orlesian mindset and culture.
Yeah, you have to remember it isn't just the nobles, its the servants and merchants as well. Heck you could argue that Brialla plays the game more then Gaspard or Celene.
Yeah, you have to remember it isn't just the nobles, its the servants and merchants as well. Heck you could argue that Brialla plays the game more then Gaspard or Celene.
She does.
Like Leliana said: "Everyone in Orlais play the game."
I wouldn't even know where to begin. It'd be damn hard to damage a system so ingrained in the Orlesian mindset and culture.
In an apocalypse situation like this? Faith/religion can easily be the impetus for significant change.
I don't think Briala will be a third party in the Orlesian civil war. Yeah, she does say that the city elves will have to fight and win their freedom, but I don't see her actually be thematically opposed to either Celene nor Gaspard. Neither of them really defend the Orlesian ingrown racism. Celene will fight for the empire first, yes. Gaspard don't particularly care for the elves, no. But they're not opposed to the elves as such.
What Briala will have to fight is not a war for the throne, or for land, but for rights. That's a whole different fight and she'll no doubt have to fight a few nobles. But I don't see conquests of cities or armies remotely figure in (especially since the elves would be crushed and Briala knows this). It's social upheaval, but not outright civil war stuff.
So unless Briala starts attacking Gaspard or Celene I don't see her being part of that plot. I do however think she'll be in a plot, though not neccessarily in person.
I do concur about the mysterious figure in the ending though. That was no doubt our villain or it's Dragon (not a literal dragon, the archetype).
I think the dalish will have a plot, a dalish protag would be rather wasted if we didn't, but like the city elf fight I do not see it being part of the civil war plot. To it's benefit, since it won't have to share spotlight.
As for Fen'Harel... he'll only play part metaphorically.
I initially thought the mysterious figure was Flemeth but it's just a hunch.
I initially thought the mysterious figure was Flemeth but it's just a hunch.
Maybe its Merril duh duh duh.........Just kidding Lob, don't kill me in my sleep.
I don't think Briala will be a third party in the Orlesian civil war. Yeah, she does say that the city elves will have to fight and win their freedom, but I don't see her actually be thematically opposed to either Celene nor Gaspard. Neither of them really defend the Orlesian ingrown racism. Celene will fight for the empire first, yes. Gaspard don't particularly care for the elves, no. But they're not opposed to the elves as such.
What Briala will have to fight is not a war for the throne, or for land, but for rights. That's a whole different fight and she'll no doubt have to fight a few nobles. But I don't see conquests of cities or armies remotely figure in (especially since the elves would be crushed and Briala knows this). It's social upheaval, but not outright civil war stuff.
So unless Briala starts attacking Gaspard or Celene I don't see her being part of that plot. I do however think she'll be in a plot, though not neccessarily in person.
My thought isn't the elves will be exactly a third side. They'll be willing to let Celene and Gaspard bleed each other. But in the meantime they're going to grab as much land and power as they can hold onto. That way, by the time one or the other ends up on top, they will be either too weak to stop the elves from creating their own homeland (or at the least become a semiautonomous province), or the elves will be in a superior bargaining position for more rights within the empre.
My thought isn't the elves will be exactly a third side. They'll be willing to let Celene and Gaspard bleed each other. But in the meantime they're going to grab as much land and power as they can hold onto. That way, by the time one or the other ends up on top, they will be either too weak to stop the elves from creating their own homeland (or at the least become a semiautonomous province), or the elves will be in a superior bargaining position for more rights within the empre.
Sounds like a smart plan.
Maybe its Merril duh duh duh...
You mean i spent fifteen seconds killing her for nothing?! 
I think the dalish will have a plot, a dalish protag would be rather wasted if we didn't, but like the city elf fight I do not see it being part of the civil war plot. To it's benefit, since it won't have to share spotlight.
I can see that being the case, and as the reason why the Dales is cited as a separate location, rather than as part of Orlais.
As for Fen'Harel... he'll only play part metaphorically.
Agreed. I don't see the developers revealing that any of the deities are real at this point in time.
The elves aren't really a third side in the war in the same way the other two are. Briala's plan was about using her underground network to help elves and make sure the the humans keep fighting. But even if she brings in Dalish clans to help her, she doesn't really have an army of their own strong enough to challenge either side directly. However, she and Celene have opposite and incompatible goals. They cannot exactly reconcile unless of of them is defeated or surrenders.
I really did not like Felassan, and I'm a little weirded out that almost nobody in the novels and few people on the forums called him out for being as sinister as he was. I got the sense that he cared about Briala and really did want her to succeed in her plans to free elves but he also knowingly allowed the clan to be wiped out by Imshael. Say what you will about the extreme foolishness of Thelhen of summoning Imshael in the first place, or Michel idiotically taking him at his word, Felassan was the one who knew who he was and what would happen if Michael broke the stones and he said nothing. The massacre was his fault. Not only that, but he was clearly working for Fen'Harel. And his lessons about manipulation to her kind of set off my alarm bells.
Also I think all his references to his clan did not mean a real Dalish Clan. Given that he told Mihris she probably wouldn't want to meet his clan, I'm thinking he actually means hanging out with the Dread Wolf and his other servants.
I would expect Fen'Harel to be involved in the game actually. We know that the Old Gods exist, but their nature is not clear. They can do the same with Fen'Harel.
Maybe its Merril duh duh duh.........Just kidding Lob, don't kill me in my sleep.
or anders / vengence? dunh dunh dunh DUNH!
Maybe its Merril duh duh duh.........Just kidding Lob, don't kill me in my sleep.
{shakes elven somniari fist in the air}
Maybe its Merril duh duh duh.........Just kidding Lob, don't kill me in my sleep.
Start running lol
*merril voice* did i miss something dirty?
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