1992 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Because Celene and Gaspard are FIGHTING a war which is different then Briala who wants to keep one going from the sidelines to benefit from it.

Briala wants all the elves to benefit, while Celene and Gaspard wage war over who rules Orlais.

[Shadow Fox]

Dragon!

Spiders are way more badass then a winged overgrown iguana.

[Divine Justinia V]

Spiders are way more badass then a winged overgrown iguana.

 

goodbye

[Master Warder Z_]

Oh yeah. I would simply use them till we finish the crisis at hand, then throw down a Storm of the Century at the heart of the network, then be done with it. I'm wondering now if the use of eluvians is causing the recent spike in red lyrium.

 

I am usually a fan of using and advancing by any means possible, at any cost, provided my personal code is satisfied but this still reeks to me of a bad short term idea.

 

The sooner those things fade into the mists of time, the better.

[efd731]

Spiders are way more badass then a winged overgrown iguana.

Now I want my inquisitor to fight Godzilla...darn it

[Heimdall]

Briala wants all the elves to benefit, while Celene and Gaspard wage war over who rules Orlais.

Celene and Gaspard both believe their visions for Orlais benefit the people and stability of the Empire the most. Do they want the throne? Yes, but don't boil it down to just that because it suits your point, its disingenuous. They want to end a war to achieve their causes. Briala wants to prolong a destructive and deadly conflict for the benefit of a minority of the affected population.

[Hellion Rex]

I am usually a fan of using and advancing by any means possible, at any cost, provided my personal code is satisfied but this still reeks to me of a bad short term idea.

Me using the mirrors to deal with the crisis? Or me blowing them up with magic?

[Hellion Rex]

You guys are the best
Also, Elu, I'm rather curious about that as red lyrium appears to be crystalline rather than metallic now. A gem of red lyrium could have some chaotic side effects. Just hope it doesn't turn briala into Cerberus, if I end her I want it to be right, not just necessary.

Also, based on what I heard at PAX East, this picture of Viv is in the Highlands, and behind her are red lyrium obelisks growing out of the ground.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

My pet dragon/spider?

Spider dragon?

Spoiler

[LobselVith8]

Briala seems to be signaled out for 2 reasons.
 
1) She is the only one getting a defense from posters like yourself
2) She has access to what could be considered a WMD in the form of the Eluvian Network.

First, it's in retort to how some vilify her for trying to help the elves because of the threat posed by the veil tears, while ignoring Celene and Gaspard fighting a civil war over who will rule the empire despite the veil tears.

Second, she's looking to free the elves, so I'm not seeing the issue with her access to the Eluvians. Feeding the hungry and warning people about impending danger can save lives, and Briala is taking action during the civil war because she doesn't trust Celene to stay true to her word to help the elves if it threatened her political status.

What's the endgame? Putting an end to chevaliers murdering innocent elves, to rapes and abuses, to humans harming elves with impunity, and to purges that kill massive numbers of elves. It's been centuries of this, so I can understand why Briala has decided to use the situation to the advantage of an innumerable number of elven men, women, and children.

[Master Warder Z_]

Me using the mirrors to deal with the crisis? Or me blowing them up with magic?

 

If i am being truthful?

 

Both.

 

Those things reek of danger, their source is pure evil but...There is knowledge no matter how dark there.

 

It's just it should be achieved naturally, by man, not a token offered because the elves sacrificed a billion elven slaves to the Formless one.

 

Advancement, Limitations, the growth and maturation going alongside with the increase in ability and knowledge.

 

I promote stability, Order and safety, i would truthfully and with no remorse kill thousands to preserve the lives of millions, but using a firearm because the Ottomans are pushing at the gates when it could result in future instability to the rapid arms buildup and unchecked growth of technology, or even worse ideologies impacting the growth of technology (trans-humanism) its just well...Perhaps i attach too much erm, well thought to this idea beyond dragon age.

 

It's just that i see in ours and other realities, when you exceeded limitations before they are meant to be breached, that imbalance invites chaos.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

First, it's in retort to how some vilify her for trying to help the elves because of the threat posed by the veil tears, while ignoring Celene and Gaspard fighting a civil war over who will rule the empire despite the veil tears.

Second, she's looking to free the elves, so I'm not seeing the issue with her access to the Eluvians. Feeding the hungry and warning people about impending danger can save lives, and Briala is taking action during the civil war because she doesn't trust Celene to stay true to her word to help the elves if it threatened her political status.

What's the endgame? Putting an end to chevaliers murdering innocent elves, to rapes and abuses, to humans harming elves with impunity, and to purges that kill massive numbers of elves. It's been centuries of this, so I can understand why Briala has decided to use the situation to the advantage of an innumerable number of elven men, women, and children.

That's what I'm saying. When people vilify Celine or Gaspard, there really isn't much of a defense. 

 

That's good in theory, but what's to stop her from say using the Eluvians to infiltrate enemy encampments and slaughter everyone inside or other malevolent means? 

 

And while I agree that all of those need to stop, subjecting the human populace, and elven populace for that matter, to a prolonged civil war in layman's terms makes her no better than the abusers. 

[efd731]

Also, based on what I heard at PAX East, this picture of Viv is in the Highlands, and behind her are red lyrium obelisks growing out of the ground.

Darn it, I saw that pic but was secretly hoping it meant a return to Kirkwall. City of chains and all that.

[Heimdall]

Also, based on what I heard at PAX East, this picture of Viv is in the Highlands, and behind her are red lyrium obelisks growing out of the ground.

Did somebody actually say it was a picture of the Highlands?

[Hellion Rex]

Did somebody actually say it was a picture of the Highlands?

Yeah, the dev in question specifically mentioned this picture of Vivienne when speaking of the Highlands to give people an idea of what it looked like.

[LobselVith8]

I'm not sure if #1 applies, but what lob and Xil seem to be missing is that she is initially at least, in opposition to the inquisition.

Not from where I stand. I'm seeing Celene, Gaspard, and Briala focused on their own goals in the midst of a crisis; despite your wording to paint Briala as an automatic antagonist, you're intentionally leaving out that Celene and Gaspard are fighting for their own interests, in opposition to putting an end to the veil tears. It's a simple fact you seem to have missed.

We want peace and order, and factions to give us troops. She wants chaos in Orlais so she can achieve her goals. Elf equality/rights doesn't enter the equation at that point. Our purpose isn't to be the social justice warriors of thedas, it's to close veil tears and stop demon invasions. Unless briala can offer something better than the combined military might of Orlais, she's an enemy.

The players decides what the Inquisition is; the developers have repeatedly made it clear that it's an organization that is shaped by the protagonist. An organization with it's own soldiers, who are under the command of the Inquisitor. Supporting a status quo of racism, rape, and genocide isn't part of the Inquisition I intend to establish.

I don't mean troops wise, I mean the eluvians have to be as effective in game as getting backed up by gaspard or celene.

The Crestwood preview mentioned the troops for the Inquisition volunteered for the Inquisition. The Inquisitor is said to be the only one who can close the tears. And there's nothing to suggest that the Orlesian Empire is mandatory to deal with the crisis.

[efd731]

First, it's in retort to how some vilify her for trying to help the elves because of the threat posed by the veil tears, while ignoring Celene and Gaspard fighting a civil war over who will rule the empire despite the veil tears.

Second, she's looking to free the elves, so I'm not seeing the issue with her access to the Eluvians. Feeding the hungry and warning people about impending danger can save lives, and Briala is taking action during the civil war because she doesn't trust Celene to stay true to her word to help the elves if it threatened her political status.

What's the endgame? Putting an end to chevaliers murdering innocent elves, to rapes and abuses, to humans harming elves with impunity, and to purges that kill massive numbers of elves. It's been centuries of this, so I can understand why Briala has decided to use the situation to the advantage of an innumerable number of elven men, women, and children.

nvm, you responded lob. But if the civil war ended, briala would still be attempting to change the status quo/cause unrest. The point is that even if we want increased elf autonomy or rights, bioware's going to have to make a very convincing case on how her side is worth what celene and/or gaspard can give us.

[LobselVith8]

Celene and Gaspard both think they're helping their people, Orlais, in the long run as well. You're missing the point, Lob. Whatever their reasons, they're working to end the war, though against one another, while Briala actively seeking to prolong it.

I'm not the one missing the point, I'm the one pointing out that none of them are halting this conflict to deal with the veil tears. All of them are pursuing a goal they believe in, but it's persistently Briala who is brought up, time and again, while Celene and Gaspard aren't treated in the same fashion.

Celene and Gaspard both believe their visions for Orlais benefit the people and stability of the Empire the most. Do they want the throne? Yes, but don't boil it down to just that because it suits your point, its disingenuous. They want to end a war to achieve their causes. Briala wants to prolong a destructive and deadly conflict for the benefit of a minority of the affected population.

As opposed to you disingenuously boiling down Briala's efforts to free the elves into merely extending the civil war?

[efd731]

Lob, everyone accepts that gaspard and celene suck, and are causing the war. But we will obviously be able to end it/affect it.
The problem with that is now most people want to see it end, and briala is in opposition to that. That's where the massive difference in opinion occurs. She doesn't want the war to end, because it ends her opportunity to affect change. Most of us want the war to end so Orlais can get it's sh*t together and help stem the tides of demon baddies flowing into thedas.
Edit: someone call dean in here to logic bomb us all.

[LobselVith8]

lob, did you read my posts 1&2 pages ago? No one(as far as I can tell) is actively saying her goals are bad, just unrealistic. And half of the arguement is that her methods oppose the inquisitions goals.

The civil war between Gaspard and Celene is likely causing chaos as well, yet you repeatedly go back to Briala's actions in trying to help the elves. Also, I don't think her goal is unrealistic.

We want peace and order, and troops to fight off a demon invasion. She wants continued chaos, that deprives us of all three. Elf rights don't come into it, and unless the eluvian network provides an in game bonus as large as the combine might of orlais....why should we?

The civil war isn't focused on stopping the veil tears, last time I checked, so I don't see why Briala gets singled out. The Inquisition isn't dependent on the Orlesian armies for troops, as evidenced by the forts in neighboring Ferelden. I also thank the Creators that I don't have to forge an Inquisition under your narrow parameters, since it's supposed to be shaped by player choices. And I think that it's the Inquisition that will deal with the veil tears, not Orlais.

The inquisition is here to provide order and stability, not be SJW's for the whole of thedas. If there's a way to improve the lot of elves In Orlais, I'll take it, but not at the cost of a massive military blow.

I don't recall the Inquisition being made to restore the Orlesian Empire, and it's up to the player how to deal with the veil tears.

[AresKeith]

Didn't stop Duncan's sword from smashing one.

 

 

You don't mess with Master Splinter

[Heimdall]

I'm not the one missing the point, I'm the one pointing out that none of them are halting this conflict to deal with the veil tears. All of them are pursuing a goal they believe in, but it's persistently Briala who is brought up, time and again, while Celene and Gaspard aren't treated in the same fashion.

As opposed to you disingenuously boiling down Briala's efforts to free the elves into merely extending the civil war?

My point has nothing whatsoever to do with the veil tears.

I'm not distorting Briala's efforts. I never denied her desire to help the elves. I have only pointed out that in doing so she alone amongst the three deliberately makes it her mission to prolong the suffering of thousands. Why? To benefit a fraction of that number, the rest be damned.

[Cobra's_back]

Celene and Gaspard both believe their visions for Orlais benefit the people and stability of the Empire the most. Do they want the throne? Yes, but don't boil it down to just that because it suits your point, its disingenuous. They want to end a war to achieve their causes. Briala wants to prolong a destructive and deadly conflict for the benefit of a minority of the affected population.

Gaspard is not looking for stability. Remember he wants to attack Ferelden. Celene will do anything to keep her throne. Briala wants to help her people. The two I see that I can help is Briala and Celene. Gaspard is a no go for me. 

[efd731]

Lob, my parameters aren't narrow. I'm open to anything as long as it gets us closer to strengthening the inquisition. I just don't see how briala can do that/how her contribution is more effective than either of the throne contenders.

[Master Warder Z_]

The civil war between Gaspard and Celene is likely causing chaos as well, yet you repeatedly go back to Briala's actions in trying to help the elves. Also, I don't think her goal is unrealistic.

 

Those two claimants for the Throne aren't seeking to prolong their war to inflict as much damage on the Human Center of Culture and Influence in the continent like she is either.

 

And in truth? Its very unrealistic, There are far better methods to achievethat, Celene even presented one.

 

 

The civil war isn't focused on stopping the veil tears, last time I checked, so I don't see why Briala gets singled out. The Inquisition isn't dependent on the Orlesian armies for troops, as evidenced by the forts in neighboring Ferelden.

 

No but both armies do possess the resources, logistical capacity and numbers to greatly aid that process.

 

She doesn't aid anything to contribute to the cause?

 

You want to go ask the Nation devastated by Blight and Civil war merely a decade prior to combat a National Threat in a Country that is perhaps their greatest opponent? Brilliant.

 

 

I don't recall the Inquisition being made to restore the Orlesian Empire, and it's up to the player how to deal with the veil tears.

 

Don't recall it being formed to destroy it either.

 

Agreed, and what you proposed won't achieve that.