1992 réponses à ce sujet

[efd731]

I'm just saying it's likely.

That said my Inquisitor will definitly consider her a villain albeit a well intentioned one

Yeah, I think something's being lost in translation in this whole convo. No one wants briala to be a villain (that I can see) it's just that her goals seem at odds with the supposed purpose of the inquisition. And I personally don't see how what she offers can beat what the other 2 factions offer.

[Shadow Fox]

Yeah, I think something's being lost in translation in this whole convo. No one wants briala to be a villain (that I can see) it's just that her goals seem at odds with the supposed purpose of the inquisition. And I personally don't see how what she offers can beat what the other 2 factions offer.

I don't want anymore Merediths and Orsinos.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

We may get more options than that, if the civil war is even mandatory. The entire region of the Highlands being optional suggests that a lot may be left up to the player.

A single region and an entire questline are hardly comparable. 

 

 

Perspectives differ on what Anders did, but that doesn't pertain to this discussion. Suffice it to say, I don't buy into Mercury's insistence that Briala will be a default villain.

And they differ the same way they did for Anders. Some will see her as a hero, others not. 

 

 

Actually, I think tearing down a system that perpetuates racism, murder, and mass killings can stop suffering.

Of the elves, maybe. But what of the other people of Orlais whose lives will be torn apart by this?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I do too but not at the expense of innocent people. Well intentioned and complex villains exist Lobselvith.

Pretty much every 'villain' in Dragon Age so far is this. Loghain, Architect, Meredith, etc.

[efd731]

Pretty much every 'villain' in Dragon Age so far is this. Loghain, Architect, Meredith, etc.

uummmm,Meredith seems pretty 1 dimensional if you side with mages all the way. But yeah, briala could be many things, but if she does end up as some form of antagonist, at least she'll be well explained and have purpose. None of that orsino is a secret bloodmage crap, or Meredith becomes a power ranger nonsense.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

All three actors in the Orlesian Civil War are three dimensional. Although I can't really say what I think Briala's chances are of being a mandatory or optional enemy or ally are. But personally, I'd want to at least get the option to put a stop to her plans because I think they are detrimental to both Thedas an elvenkind. One thing I'm concerned about is  whether opposing Briala will translate to opposing elves in general because that would really annoy me (and my Elf Inquisitor). If I were forced to guess, it seems unlikely the Inquisitor will be able to support her orgional plan in the midst the Veil Tears.

 

Although the end she tells Mihris to go and tell the other clans she's willing to work with the Dalish if they support her pan elven goal and plan to manipulate Celene and Gaspard, but afterward also wonders aloud if she should have killed her instead, so perhaps the potential relationship she may have with the other elves is intentionally ambiguous at the end of the novel and left for the game to decide.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

uummmm,Meredith seems pretty 1 dimensional if you side with mages all the way. But yeah, briala could be many things, but if she does end up as some form of antagonist, at least she'll be well explained and have purpose. None of that orsino is a secret bloodmage crap, or Meredith becomes a power ranger nonsense.

True. I'm thinking of her is you side with her in the debate at the beginning of Act 3.

[efd731]

True. I'm thinking of her is you side with her in the debate at the beginning of Act 3.

Yeah, going protemplar makes her seem
Much more sympathetic and relatable. And I'm sure briala will be the same, all she wants is for there to be equality, and hopefully a little respect. And I'll try to achieve that for the elves.....as soon as I stop her/put her in the ground. Whatever's necessary.

[DontWakeTheBear]

uummmm,Meredith seems pretty 1 dimensional if you side with mages all the way. 

Any antagonist will seem shallow if you never bother to look closer, but few people just wake up one day, grow a mustache, and decide to destroy the world. It's a process over time where they do what they think is best even if bad things happen it's still the "lesser of two evils" at least as far as their concerned. Meredith's biggest problem (besides her mind being addled by the idol) was that she thought she was the hero of the story...turns out that she wasn't.

[The Elder King]

Because she's trying to prolong the war whereas the Inquisition will need to end it?
 
Why?A Dwarf Warden couldn't help Jarvia in Origins.

  
Apple and oranges. Jarvia was an antagonist inside a full dwarven plot, where you have to choose between two dwarves for the throne of Orzammar. The comparison would stand if Celene and Gaspard were elves and Orlais was an elven nation.
Regardless if Briala is an antagonist or not, the comparison with Jarvia isn't good.
It's possible though that the fact that we can choose the race might not mean that we can side with our kind (that's almost sure for the Qunari PC), and even if there are connections between our race and certain plots, Brials and the CE might not be related to the dalish PC. There are dalish i the Exalted plains and there's probably a plot for them as well.

[Xilizhra]

So innocents suffering is acceptable if it supports your cause? I vehemently disagree.

 

 

I do too but not at the expense of innocent people. Well intentioned and complex villains exist Lobselvith.

You do know that both Celene and Gaspard are prolonging the war by continuing to fight it, yes? They're just as much at fault as Briala--more, really, as they're the actual belligerents.

[Heimdall]

You do know that both Celene and Gaspard are prolonging the war by continuing to fight it, yes? They're just as much at fault as Briala--more, really, as they're the actual belligerents.

Celene and Gaspard fight the war with the goal of ending it. Prolonging it is a regrettable consequence, but not what either of them want. Briala has made it her deliberate mission to prolong the war. That's an important distinction in my book.

[Xilizhra]

Celene and Gaspard fight the war with the goal of ending it. Prolonging it is a regrettable consequence, but not what either of them want. Briala has made it her deliberate mission to prolong the war. That's an important distinction in my book.

Not in mine. Briala is only prolonging it so that her end goal can be accomplished; once it is, she'd have no stake in doing so. There's no real distinction in my mind, except that Briala actually has good as opposed to selfish intentions.

[Heimdall]

Not in mine. Briala is only prolonging it so that her end goal can be accomplished; once it is, she'd have no stake in doing so. There's no real distinction in my mind, except that Briala actually has good as opposed to selfish intentions.

Are they? I don't know if that's what I'd call submitting the majority of the population to a bloody conflict for the benefit of a minority. At any rate, both Gaspard and Celene are fighting because they believe the other will lead Orlais to ruin. Yes, they want the throne (Though maybe not Celene, at several points in the book she makes it clear that she does not enjoy the burden of rule) but they certainly have good intentions for their people.

[Xilizhra]

Are they? I don't know if that's what I'd call submitting the majority of the population to a bloody conflict for the benefit of a minority. At any rate, both Gaspard and Celene are fighting because they believe the other will lead Orlais to ruin. Yes, they want the throne (Though maybe not Celene, at several points in the book she makes it clear that she does not enjoy the burden of rule) but they certainly have good intentions for their people.

I don't think that they do; certainly not all of their people, otherwise they'd have compromised with Briala before now. They may want the nation empowered, but that doesn't translate at all to concern for its people.

[Heimdall]

I don't think that they do; certainly not all of their people, otherwise they'd have compromised with Briala before now. They may want the nation empowered, but that doesn't translate at all to concern for its people.

Celene's entire reign has been defined by compromises with Briala. The whole story opens with Celene pressuring the University of Orlais to accept elves as students.

Gaspard may want Orlais empowered, but Celene wants to reform it.

[efd731]

Ugh, Xil this js a case of you actually being narrow minded, because of your pre-existing hate or Orlais(and desire to destroy/dissolve it) unless one of the two contenders suddenly puts being pro-elf above everything else, you won't like them.
Xil won't listen to anything /thread.
By your logic you should be wholeheartedly with celene, because gaspard will continue the status quo. You(your chosen self insert of briala) want elf equality/autonomy, at all costs. Everyone else just so happens to view those costs as costs to the inquisition.

[LobselVith8]

So innocents suffering is acceptable if it supports your cause? I vehemently disagree.

 
You must be opposed to Celene and Gaspard as well, since there are always casualties in war, and innocents will suffer for their struggle over the throne.
 

I do too but not at the expense of innocent people. Well intentioned and complex villains exist Lobselvith.

We really don't need to turn Briala into a villain simply because she wants to free her people. She's also a positive portrayal of a lesbian character, as compared to the morally bankrupt Branka and Marjolaine.

[Dean_the_Young]

Not in mine. Briala is only prolonging it so that her end goal can be accomplished; once it is, she'd have no stake in doing so. There's no real distinction in my mind, except that Briala actually has good as opposed to selfish intentions.

 

Xil, before you can claim your own book, it would behoove you to actually read the actual book.

[AresKeith]

Xil can you please read the book before making claims

[MisterJB]

Briala and Branka are not that different. They both do morally questionable actions for the good of their people.  I supose it comes down to just how far you think someone should go and how much you care about the people in question.

[In Exile]

Briala and Branka are not that different. They both do morally questionable actions for the good of their people.  I supose it comes down to just how far you think someone should go and how much you care about the people in question.

Turning your people into broodmothers is the dividing line. It's a pretty stark one too. 

[LobselVith8]

Ugh, Xil this js a case of you actually being narrow minded, because of your pre-existing hate or Orlais(and desire to destroy/dissolve it) unless one of the two contenders suddenly puts being pro-elf above everything else, you won't like them.

It could be an issue of the two contenders representing goals that Xil finds reprehensible, like Gaspard's interest in conquering Ferelden, or Celene's willingness to capitulate to the nobility to keep her throne (which is why Briala didn't trust Celene, and ended up choosing her own path).

Xil won't listen to anything /thread.

As opposed to the people who want Briala to be a villain and refuse to budge on the slightest issue, you mean?

By your logic you should be wholeheartedly with celene, because gaspard will continue the status quo. You(your chosen self insert of briala) want elf equality/autonomy, at all costs. Everyone else just so happens to view those costs as costs to the inquisition.

Do you think the people who favor Gaspard see him as a "self-insert" for themselves, or was that uncalled for remark reserved for Xil because she takes a stance you strongly oppose? Frankly, some of us want things to change, and don't support the status quo, whether it's the Chantry controlled Circle or the plight of the elves. It's a little ridiculous to take umbrage at that.

[Dean_the_Young]

Turning your people into broodmothers is the dividing line. It's a pretty stark one too. 

 

Depends on how you weigh it. More elves are likely to die in the course of this uprising than dwarves died on Branka's expedition. Not as horrifically, of course, but it would be pretty easy to argue that the horrific demise of a few doesn't outweigh the more mundane killings of many. 

 

Now, you could argue that the fact that the Broodmothers make more darkspawn who do bad things makes it worse- but that becomes an argument of longer-term consequence, not of the immediate harms.

[efd731]

It could be an issue of the two contenders representing goals that Xil finds reprehensible, like Gaspard's interest in conquering Ferelden, or Celene's willingness to capitulate to the nobility to keep her throne (which is why Briala didn't trust Celene, and ended up choosing her own path).


As opposed to the people who want Briala to be a villain and refuse to budge on the slightest issue, you mean?


Do you think the people who favor Gaspard see him as a "self-insert" for themselves, or was that uncalled for remark reserved for Xil because she takes a stance you strongly oppose? Frankly, some of us want things to change, and don't support the status quo, whether it's the Chantry controlled Circle or the plight of the elves. It's a little ridiculous to take umbrage at that.

Everyone here is aware that celene and gaspard are crap, the only issue is whether briala is on the same level. And I said that self-insert thing because I thought it was accurate, not due to misplaced internet rage. If Xil takes offense then I will retract it as apologize(while believing it to still be accurate)