1992 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Read the book. Briala plans to use the Eluvians to work against whoever happens to be winning so the war continues for as long as possible.

She plans to help her people first. She has yet to pick which side to help. The reason she has not pick which side to help because of her new powers she now stands on equal ground of Cilece and  Garpard and can use that power to help her people. That's not giving a better bow to the shooter, that seeing who is the better shooter before giving the bow. The point is that she now has to power to bend the powers at be to help her people and they have no choice but to if they want to use the fast transport.

[Palidane]

Now, I don't want to throw fuel on a fire, but I do think it is likely that Briala will be a villain in DAI.

 

The Inquisitor and Briala have completely opposite goals. The Inquisitor wants to forge order out of chaos and unite everyone capable of holding a sword in the defense of reality. Briala wants to cause as much damage and sow as much chaos as she possibly can so the elves have an opportunity to retake the Dales. She will be actively tearing down the very armies the Inquisitor needs to fight back the demons.

 

I expect her to fit into the Bioware archetype of "Well-meaning villain who gets in the way because they refuse to see the bigger picture". Like in Mass Effect 3, how the world was ending and freaking Cerberus kept trying to steal reaper tech to advance humanity. Or in DAO, when the world was ending and Loghain wouldn't shut up about "Orlesian plots!" I can totally see us fighting off her elvish assassins periodically, before finally entering the eluvians and putting her down.

[leaguer of one]

Have you read the book?

Yes, I have. Only elves can use the transport safely and they can literally live in them.  Unless All the mirrors are broken, the elves have a place to say that no human can touch them.

[LobselVith8]

Briala is being singled out because her plan requires more death and destruction than either of them because she is fighting to extend the war and they are both fighting to end it. The war is a means to each of their respective ends, but hers necessitates more casualties.

It's causing a stalemate to weaken Celene and Gaspard in the civil war, in order to provide the elves with the opportunity to free themselves. It's also an issue of blaming Briala because, in this hypothetical scenario, Celene and Gaspard refuse to back down or compromise from their civil war.

People "singled her out" because she is actively prolonging the war

To free her people, while Celene and Gaspard wage a war over who will sit on the throne. I'm not seeing why Briala should be singled out when all three are participating in this conflict.

[Palidane]

Briala is working to free her people from a tyrannical empire; that was the same goal Shartan had when he opposed the Inperium.

Shartan didn't have the power to bring down Tevinter, so he allied with someone who could. Briala doesn't have the power to take down Orlais, but she's going to try it anyway, and probably get a million elves killed before the end.

[Hellion Rex]

Eluvians alone does not an army make. They have no structure, no organization. The elves are gonna lose, and lose hard unfortunately.

[AresKeith]

To free her people, while Celene and Gaspard wage a war over who will sit on the throne. I'm not seeing why Briala should be singled out when all three are participating in this conflict.

 

And we get that, Doesn't change the fact that her actions can also cause more harm than good just like Celene and Gaspard

[TK514]

I think my real problem with Biala's 'plan' is that she didn't have to go that route.  She had the perfect opportunity to have her cake and eat it too if she'd let Ser Michel kill Gaspard then called in her favor.  The Civil War would have ended without the risk of Gaspard, who doesn't care about the elves, winning, she still would have owned the Eluvians, and she'd have retained her power over the Empress.  She'd have been in the best position she could have hoped for to effect long term change.

 

And let's face it, even if every human in Orlais knew the password, the Eluvians are all but closed to them if the elves don't want them in there, given the ridiculous discrepancy between elves and humans inside the network.

 

As it is, she risks putting her people in an even worse situation once one side or the other wins, because they aren't going to forget that the elves prolonged the conflict.  She risks turning Celene from pro-elf reformer to anti-elf crusader, and she risks pushing Gaspard from apathy to hatred.  Even if she wins, she's destroyed any hope of anyone ever trusting her again, and that will absolutely matter down the line when it comes time to make friends so the various human nations don't eat her people alive.

[In Exile]

It's causing a stalemate to weaken Celene and Gaspard in the civil war, in order to provide the elves with the opportunity to free themselves. It's also an issue of blaming Briala because, in this hypothetical scenario, Celene and Gaspard refuse to back down or compromise from their civil war.

 

It doesn't matter that they're being obstinate from the POV of the Inquisition. What matters for the Inquisition is stopping the demons. If it were just the case of Briala being a rable rouser, then siding with either Celene or Gaspard makes perfect sense. It's the fact she has Eluvians that makes it a three way. 

[Hellion Rex]

I think my real problem with Biala's 'plan' is that she didn't have to go that route.  She had the perfect opportunity to have her cake and eat it too if she'd let Ser Michel kill Gaspard then called in her favor.  The Civil War would have ended without the risk of Gaspard, who doesn't care about the elves, winning, she still would have owned the Eluvians, and she'd have retained her power over the Empress.  She'd have been in the best position she could have hoped for to effect long term change.

 

And let's face it, even if every human in Orlais knew the password, the Eluvians are all but closed to them if the elves don't want them in there, given the ridiculous discrepancy between elves and humans inside the network.

 

As it is, she risks putting her people in an even worse situation once one side or the other wins, because they aren't going to forget that the elves prolonged the conflict.  She risks turning Celene from pro-elf reformer to anti-elf crusader, and she risks pushing Gaspard from apathy to hatred.  Even if she wins, she's destroyed any hope of anyone ever trusting her again, and that will absolutely matter down the line when it comes time to make friends so the various human nations don't eat her people alive.

/drops mic

[LobselVith8]

Now, I don't want to throw fuel on a fire, but I do think it is likely that Briala will be a villain in DAI.
 
The Inquisitor and Briala have completely opposite goals. The Inquisitor wants to forge order out of chaos and unite everyone capable of holding a sword in the defense of reality. Briala wants to cause as much damage and sow as much chaos as she possibly can so the elves have an opportunity to retake the Dales. She will be actively tearing down the very armies the Inquisitor needs to fight back the demons.
 
I expect her to fit into the Bioware archetype of "Well-meaning villain who gets in the way because they refuse to see the bigger picture". Like in Mass Effect 3, how the world was ending and freaking Cerberus kept trying to steal reaper tech to advance humanity. Or in DAO, when the world was ending and Loghain wouldn't shut up about "Orlesian plots!" I can totally see us fighting off her elvish assassins periodically, before finally entering the eluvians and putting her down.

Briala wants to free her people from a regime where abuse, rape, murder, and purges have transpired against the elven populace for Ages. I don't see that as the traits of a villain, and I doubt the Inquisitor is going to be limited to opposing Briala.

Shartan didn't have the power to bring down Tevinter, so he allied with someone who could. Briala doesn't have the power to take down Orlais, but she's going to try it anyway, and probably get a million elves killed before the end.

Shartan and Andraste worked together, and Briala is looking to get like-minded people to assist her cause, city elves and Dalish alike, to work together to help all the elves.

[The Hierophant]

It's causing a stalemate to weaken Celene and Gaspard in the civil war, in order to provide the elves with the opportunity to free themselves. It's also an issue of blaming Briala because, in this hypothetical scenario, Celene and Gaspard refuse to back down or compromise from their civil war.

Too bad they can't compromise because Briala intentionally sent them to different locations that are controlled by the other's supporters in an effort to prolongue the conflict, while there's a possibility that she'll (if she's in DAI) actively seek to sabotage peace efforts.

[LobselVith8]

Eluvians alone does not an army make. They have no structure, no organization. The elves are gonna lose, and lose hard unfortunately.

The story ends when Briala is planning this out. We aren't privy to how successful she might be, how many comprise her network, and whether or not she's made gains for her cause. I also don't share your pessimism about her chances.

[Heimdall]

She plans to help her people first. She has yet to pick which side to help. The reason she has not pick which side to help because of her new powers she now stands on equal ground of Cilece and Garpard and can use that power to help her people. That's not giving a better bow to the shooter, that seeing who is the better shooter before giving the bow. The point is that she now has to power to bend the powers at be to help her people and they have no choice but to if they want to use the fast transport.

My god, you haven't read it have you? Or you have a remarkably self serving memory. From the epilogue:

"Which army are you going to hamstring?"
Briala looked over at Felassan, smiling, even as she started to shiver from the winter's chill. "Whichever one seems to be winning. What was it? Anaris and Andruil?"
Felassan smiled. "You prolong their fight, and in the chaos, your people work free from their bonds?"

[The Hierophant]

Shouldn't there be Qunari spies amongst Orlais' city elves? If so how does everyone else think this'll playout?

[Heimdall]

Too bad they can't compromise because Briala intentionally sent them to different locations that are controlled by the other's supporters in an effort to prolongue the conflict, while there's a possibility that she'll (if she's in DAI) actively seek to sabotage peace efforts.

Actually, she sent Gaspard to Val Chevin, his power base. She only sent Celene to Halamshiral because she knew that Gaspard didn't have a chance if Celene could rally her supporters in Val Royeaux.

[TK514]

The other problem with Briala is that her actions have effects well outside Orlais.  Every major human nation with an elven population uses them as the servant class.  They do the jobs humans won't.  Briala's actions run the risk of disrupting that economic backbone by causing sympathetic uprisings or even just elven exoduses in the other nations.  And that kind of disruption will absolutely get the various human nations beating the drums of war.  The Chantry won't have to call for an Exalted March if the major human nations feel like their economic stability is as risk.  They'll start thinking about putting down the upstarts in southern Orlais, and then finding ways to make sure the elves never pull that crap again.

 

Hey, we even have a great example of a country that made sure the elves knew their place, and knew it so well they forgot what their previous culture was even like.  Maybe the human nations start thinking Tevinter had the right idea when it came to elves....

[Palidane]

Briala wants to free her people from a regime where abuse, rape, murder, and purges have transpired against the elven populace for Ages. I don't see that as the traits of a villain, and I doubt the Inquisitor is going to be limited to opposing Briala.

And I don't care one bit about that. We have a world to save, and she is almost certainly going to be getting in our way. If she wants to improve life for the elves, she will do it by getting her priorities straight and falling in line. If not, I will kill her, and feel bad about it later.

 

And I think you will have to do the same, unless you think Bioware will let you put the plight of the elves before the main plot?

 

 

 

Shartan and Andraste worked together, and Briala is looking to get like-minded people to assist her cause, city elves and Dalish alike, to work together to help all the elves.

No, that would be if Briala helped Celene destroy Gaspard, and held enough cards in the end that Celene gave her the dales. Her current plan would be "Shartan pisses off both sides because he doesn't want to compromise, and is either a nuisance who gets annihilated by the victor, or is a serious threat that forces the two sides to unite to annihilate him".

[Giggles_Manically]

I would hate it if she was just a foe we had to fight.

She does not seem entirely unreasonable.

 

Then again what do I know? I never thought that TIM would go "LOL REAPERTEACH LOL HUMANITY LOL!"

Yeesh.

[leaguer of one]

Have you read the book?

I'm referring to Andraste and her elven Allie.

[Divine Justinia V]

I would hate it if she was just a foe we had to fight.

She does not seem entirely unreasonable.

 

Yeah, I really don't think she's the type to stick her fingers in her ears and refuse to listen to reason.

[The Hierophant]

Actually, she sent Gaspard to Val Chevin, his power base. She only sent Celene to Halamshiral because she knew that Gaspard didn't have a chance if Celene could rally her supporters in Val Royeaux.

Thanks for the correction. If Celene were teleported in her sphere of influence she could've crushed Gaspard's forces as they're not strong enough yet. My fault for the senior moment.

[leaguer of one]

Eluvians alone does not an army make. They have no structure, no organization. The elves are gonna lose, and lose hard unfortunately.

Who said anything about an army. They don't need one. They can now go where human armies can't touch them. They don't need to fight or be part of any human wars any more.

[TK514]

Who said anything about an army. They don't need one. They can now go where human armies can't touch them. They don't need to fight or be part of any human wars any more.

 

They can't live in there forever, and they have to come out and make themselves vulnerable if they want to affect the Civil War.  It's going to take risky action, not desperate wishes, to actually do anything, and that's going to result in elven deaths.

[LobselVith8]

I think my real problem with Biala's 'plan' is that she didn't have to go that route.  She had the perfect opportunity to have her cake and eat it too if she'd let Ser Michel kill Gaspard then called in her favor.  The Civil War would have ended without the risk of Gaspard, who doesn't care about the elves, winning, she still would have owned the Eluvians, and she'd have retained her power over the Empress.  She'd have been in the best position she could have hoped for to effect long term change.
 
And let's face it, even if every human in Orlais knew the password, the Eluvians are all but closed to them if the elves don't want them in there, given the ridiculous discrepancy between elves and humans inside the network.
 
As it is, she risks putting her people in an even worse situation once one side or the other wins, because they aren't going to forget that the elves prolonged the conflict.  She risks turning Celene from pro-elf reformer to anti-elf crusader, and she risks pushing Gaspard from apathy to hatred.  Even if she wins, she's destroyed any hope of anyone ever trusting her again, and that will absolutely matter down the line when it comes time to make friends so the various human nations don't eat her people alive.

Briala already points out that Celene would have gone back on her word to help the elves the moment it compromised her position with the nobility, which is why she didn't support Celene. "But when the nobles protested, when it threatened to weaken the empire, you would have let it go. You would have ignored your promises to me, knowing that I would always forgive. That I would always stand by your side."

As Briala says, "I will fight for the others who have no one to champion their cause."

Felassan gave his life because he thought Briala could succeed in freeing her people, so I'm not sharing the abysmal outlook on her endeavor that some of you seem to have.