1992 réponses à ce sujet

[TK514]

Briala already points out that Celene would have gone back on her word to help the elves the moment it compromised her position with the nobility, which is why she didn't support Celene. "But when the nobles protested, when it threatened to weaken the empire, you would have let it go. You would have ignored your promises to me, knowing that I would always forgive. That I would always stand by your side."

As Briala says, "I will fight for the others who have no one to champion their cause."

Felassan gave his life because he thought Briala could succeed in freeing her people, so I'm not sharing the abysmal outlook on her endeavor that some of you seem to have.

 

Which was true about Celene when Briala didn't have absolute control over the network.  She didn't have the bargaining position to keep Celene in line before.  Now she would have, except she screwed it up.

 

And frankly, Lob, the elves are your blind spot.  You would find a way to justify elven victory in any situation.  You wouldn't admit their chances were abysmal if they were surrounded by all of humanity on the outside with no food or weapons, and a demonic horde had taken over the Eluvian network.

[Cobra's_back]

It's only a means to achieve her true objective, which is the betterment of the CE. It's unclear if her endgame is an armed uprising or mass withdrawal while the Orlesian ruling body is distracted.

*Mind you there's a possibility she changed her goal of prolonging the war after the veil tear. I doubt she'd be that stupid when there's a probable army of demons running around. Although this is only possible if she's alive or has a cameo.*

 

I see what you mean. It wouldn't make sense for her to be that stupid. I would have to wonder why the writer went out of his way to have her tell the Dalish mage that the CE are their people and spread the word. I thought he wanted us to see her as a leader of all elves. 

 

I do agree that it could go either way. 

[LobselVith8]

My god, you haven't read it have you? Or you have a remarkably self serving memory.

It's not implausible to think Briala may be willing to work with one of the contenders for the throne, if freedom for her people can be secured. Everyone has their own opinion on how it might turn out, after all.

[leaguer of one]

My god, you haven't read it have you? Or you have a remarkably self serving memory. From the epilogue:

And the fight is not her's to fight anymore. And what he mean by prolonging the fight is by not taking a side, not giving one side and advantage.

 My argument is against the example you used. It's not giving the shooter a better bow, it's holding the bow back to see who is the better shooter.

[leaguer of one]

They can't live in there forever, and they have to come out and make themselves vulnerable if they want to affect the Civil War.  It's going to take risky action, not desperate wishes, to actually do anything, and that's going to result in elven deaths.

They will only be vulnerable if they come to human lands or place where human have easy access. All they have to do is find the mirrors and arrange them in a way the people can't easily find them. The issue is if the mirrors brake.

[LobselVith8]

And I don't care one bit about that. We have a world to save, and she is almost certainly going to be getting in our way. If she wants to improve life for the elves, she will do it by getting her priorities straight and falling in line. If not, I will kill her, and feel bad about it later.
 
And I think you will have to do the same, unless you think Bioware will let you put the plight of the elves before the main plot?

The civil war in Orlais isn't the "main plot", and I'm fairly certain the player will have the opportunity to side with their preferred faction, even if it's one you personally dislike.

No, that would be if Briala helped Celene destroy Gaspard, and held enough cards in the end that Celene gave her the dales. Her current plan would be "Shartan pisses off both sides because he doesn't want to compromise, and is either a nuisance who gets annihilated by the victor, or is a serious threat that forces the two sides to unite to annihilate him".

That's not an apt comparison, given how neither Gaspard nor Celene would be willing to help the elves of their own volition; Shartan and Andraste had the common goal of defeating the Imperium and ending slavery, in contrast.

[efd731]

/drops mic

BSN turns into crowd at rap battle "oooooohhhhh!!!"
But Seriously, unless briala suddenly decides helping the inquisition is 'what is best in life' then look like there's gonna be some purging goin on.

[The Hierophant]

They will only be vulnerable if they come to human lands or place where human have easy access. All they have to do is find the mirrors and arrange them in a way the people can't easily find them. The issue is if the mirrors brake.

Qunari spies could potentially screw them over too.

[Hellion Rex]

Shouldn't there be Qunari spies amongst Orlais' city elves? If so how does everyone else think this'll playout?

Oh damn, good point. I didn't even think about that. And yeah, there are probably some of those running around.

[The Baconer]

Oh damn, good point. I didn't even think about that. And yeah, there are probably some of those running around.

If there's ever a completely justified use for Blood Magic, it's to find Qunari spies.

[Hellion Rex]

And frankly, Lob, the elves are your blind spot.  You would find a way to justify elven victory in any situation.  You wouldn't admit their chances were abysmal if they were surrounded by all of humanity on the outside with no food or weapons, and a demonic horde had taken over the Eluvian network.

And to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Imshael gave them the damn gem so that the eluvian network could be used against the mortals in Orlais.

[AresKeith]

Yeah, I really don't think she's the type to stick her fingers in her ears and refuse to listen to reason.

Yea, I would hope she's reasonable

Only her plan is in the way atm

[LobselVith8]

I see what you mean. It wouldn't make sense for her to be that stupid. I would have to wonder why the writer went out of his way to have her tell the Dalish mage that the CE are their people and spread the word. I thought he wanted us to see her as a leader of all elves.

I do agree that it could go either way.

That is what Briala said: "I will work with the Dalish, but only if they help all our people. Pass that on to the next clan you meet."

Later, Briala said, "I think it can work. Halamshiral rioted because of a single nobleman. I can find elves who will help me with my work in every city of Orlais, and more who are too afraid to fight, but will serve as eyes and ears if I can help their children survive the winter."

[Palidane]

The civil war in Orlais isn't the "main plot", and I'm fairly certain the player will have the opportunity to side with their preferred faction, even if it's one you personally dislike.

It's not that I personally dislike her, I just don't think she is a faction. There's no way she could could win the civil war, and there's no way she could lose the civil war because she is not a participant in it. Like I said, her interests are diametrically opposed to ours, Celene's, and Gaspards. Everyone else wants, a strong, powerful, united Orlais, while she wants an anarchic collection of feuding warlords and petty disputes that she can take advantage of.

 

From what we have seen, I think she will be the Loghain of DAI. Sure, he was sympathetic, and yeah, you didn't have to kill him, but the game didn't let you join his side either. Because at the end of the day, Dragon Age Origins was about the blight, not screwing over treacherous Orlesians. And Dragon Age Inquisition will be about closing the veil tears, not creating an elven state. Sorry, maybe next time?

[Hellion Rex]

If there's ever a completely justified use for Blood Magic, it's to find Qunari spies.

To be honest, I have no problem with the Qunari at this time. Granted, they are little cray cray, but I think that is a battle for another day.

[leaguer of one]

It's not that I personally dislike her, I just don't think she is a faction. There's no way she could could win the civil war, and there's no way she could lose the civil war because she is not a participant in it. Like I said, her interests are diametrically opposed to ours, Celene's, and Gaspards. Everyone else wants, a strong, powerful, united Orlais, while she wants an anarchic collection of feuding warlords and petty disputes that she can take advantage of.

 

From what we have seen, I think she will be the Loghain of DAI. Sure, he was sympathetic, and yeah, you didn't have to kill him, but the game didn't let you join his side either. Because at the end of the day, Dragon Age Origins was about the blight, not screwing over treacherous Orlesians. And Dragon Age Inquisition will be about closing the veil tears, not creating an elven state. Sorry, maybe next time?

It's not that different then ours. The ripe effect everyone, human, elf and dwarf. I see no reason for her not to help us being that it helps her people as well. We motives are only different from Celene's and Gaspard's being now she is no long part of that war. We only care for the civil war because we need help to close the veal. A whole united Orlais is not our objective. Briala is not going to say no to helping us, she'll only say no to forcing her to pick a side that helps end the civil war that is against her people's benefit. No way is she going to be a like Loghain because she is not blinded by old hates and fears. 

[Cobra's_back]

The other problem with Briala is that her actions have effects well outside Orlais.  Every major human nation with an elven population uses them as the servant class.  They do the jobs humans won't.  Briala's actions run the risk of disrupting that economic backbone by causing sympathetic uprisings or even just elven exoduses in the other nations.  And that kind of disruption will absolutely get the various human nations beating the drums of war.  The Chantry won't have to call for an Exalted March if the major human nations feel like their economic stability is as risk.  They'll start thinking about putting down the upstarts in southern Orlais, and then finding ways to make sure the elves never pull that crap again.

 

Hey, we even have a great example of a country that made sure the elves knew their place, and knew it so well they forgot what their previous culture was even like.  Maybe the human nations start thinking Tevinter had the right idea when it came to elves....

 

You mean crackdown on them until they break. This can backfire. It works if you can easily kill them all quickly because you might have to when they had enough and decide to revolt. Of course you won't have them anymore and there will be damage.

 

Orlais was beaten before by the elves. Other Kingdoms did come to their rescue. The question is why would they do that now when Orlais hasn't been a very good neighbor and has threatened other human Kingdoms. I can't see Ferelden coming in to help.

[Palidane]

It's not that different then ours. The ripe effect everyone, human, elf and dwarf. I see no reason for her not to help us being that it helps her people as well. We motives are only different from Celene's and Gaspard's being now she is no long part of that war. We only care for the civil war because we need help to close the veal. A whole united Orlais is not our objective. Briala is not going to say no to helping us, she'll only say no to forcing her to pick a side that helps end the civil war that is against her people's benefit. No way is she going to be a like Loghain because she is not blinded by old hates and fears. 

Alright, well maybe it's possible that we can convince her to totally drop her stated plan and do a complete u-turn, but I don't think that's terribly likely...

[leaguer of one]

Qunari spies could potentially screw them over too.

And the oxmen can use the mirrors? 

[Hellion Rex]

And the oxmen can use the mirrors? 

Anyone can use the mirrors. It's just that the elves are more comfortable in the inbetween world.

 

 

And he meant elven Qunari spies, similar to Tallis, that can blend into Orlesian society.

[LobselVith8]

It's not that I personally dislike her, I just don't think she is a faction. There's no way she could could win the civil war, and there's no way she could lose the civil war because she is not a participant in it. Like I said, her interests are diametrically opposed to ours, Celene's, and Gaspards. Everyone else wants, a strong, powerful, united Orlais, while she wants an anarchic collection of feuding warlords and petty disputes that she can take advantage of.

Briala wants elven men, women, and children to have a better future, to be free, so she's going to take advantage of the civil war to make that happen. I don't see her as the equivalent of Loghain, since no one has said saving the political system of Orlais is mandatory. I see her as a possible option to side with, especially for an elven Inquisitor who may have no desire to rescue the Orlesian Empire.

From what we have seen, I think she will be the Loghain of DAI. Sure, he was sympathetic, and yeah, you didn't have to kill him, but the game didn't let you join his side either. Because at the end of the day, Dragon Age Origins was about the blight, not screwing over treacherous Orlesians. And Dragon Age Inquisition will be about closing the veil tears, not creating an elven state. Sorry, maybe next time?

You speak as though you're privy to the complete storyline of Inquisition, but we all know this isn't the case. I don't think helping the elves will be precluded for the player, and aside from some negative opinions about Briala, I've read nothing that indicates that the player will be forced to support Celene or Gaspard.

[Cobra's_back]

That is what Briala said: "I will work with the Dalish, but only if they help all our people. Pass that on to the next clan you meet."

Later, Briala said, "I think it can work. Halamshiral rioted because of a single nobleman. I can find elves who will help me with my work in every city of Orlais, and more who are too afraid to fight, but will serve as eyes and ears if I can help their children survive the winter."

 

Excellent. I see her as building an army of CE and Dalish. That is huge and certainly gets my vote.

[HiroVoid]

You mean crackdown on them until they break. This can backfire. It works if you can easily kill them all quickly because you might have to when they had enough and decide to revolt. Of course you won't have them anymore and there will be damage.

 

Orlais was beaten before by the elves. Other Kingdoms did come to their rescue. The question is why would they do that now when Orlais hasn't been a very good neighbor and has threatened other human Kingdoms. I can't see Ferelden coming in to help.

Actually, I believe the only templars that helped came from Orlais according to WoT.

[leaguer of one]

Alright, well maybe it's possible that we can convince her to totally drop her stated plan and do a complete u-turn, but I don't think that's terribly likely...

Again, I think your not getting my point here. She does not need to do a u-turn because what she wants does not go against want we want as an inquisitor who's goal is to close the veal. Being that the veal being open effects and can kill her people she has no reason not to help us. It would be more of an issue getting Celcene and Gaspard to help us then Briala. The former wants the throne and to use it does not matter who has the thrown. The latter just want to help her people, doing that will not go against our objective being that it part of our general goal.

[Hellion Rex]

Excellent. I see her as building an army of CE and Dalish. That is huge and certainly gets my vote.

Yeah...not the Dalish. At least not from what I have seen so far. She'll probably stick to the CEs.