Anyone can use the mirrors. It's just that the elves are more comfortable in the inbetween world.
And he meant elven Qunari spies, similar to Tallis, that can blend into Orlesian society.
1. Sure anyone can walk into them but the non elven are too effected by the world in the mirror to fight well. The elves can easily make a barricade in those worlds.
2. The elven spy are not their main force.
Actually, I believe the only templars that helped came from Orlais according to WoT.
Yeah...not the Dalish. At least not from what I have seen so far. She'll probably stick to the CEs.
With her holding on the the tech of the old world, you think the dalish who very goals are to rediscover the past is going to pass this up?
She now has something they have interest in to get them to help her.
...Did you even read what I posted? They specifically discuss hamstringing one side when it gets too much of an advantage over the other. She even references the Anaris and Andruil story Felassan told her earlier, when the Dread Wolf prolonged the fight between the two by distracting whoever was winning in order to achieve his own ends.And the fight is not her's to fight anymore. And what he mean by prolonging the fight is by not taking a side, not giving one side and advantage.
My argument is against the example you used. It's not giving the shooter a better bow, it's holding the bow back to see who is the better shooter.
I honestly don't know how she's going to build an army T all. She's a complete unknown, with almost no strategic resources, and in order to mobilize the city elves, she has to convince them to step into the magic mirror portals that lead god knows where. The Dalish might be moreYeah...not the Dalish. At least not from what I have seen so far. She'll probably stick to the CEs.
Possible? Maybe, if desperate. But the selection from the epilogue I posted is quite unambiguous about what we know of her future plans.It's not implausible to think Briala may be willing to work with one of the contenders for the throne, if freedom for her people can be secured. Everyone has their own opinion on how it might turn out, after all.
With her holding on the the tech of the old world, you think the dalish who very goals are to rediscover the past is going to pass this up?
She now has something they have interest in to get them to help her.
Alright, well maybe it's possible that we can convince her to totally drop her stated plan and do a complete u-turn, but I don't think that's terribly likely...
History within the franchise speaks ill of what you're expecting to happen. If Bioware games allow you to do anything, it's to arrange compromises between two characters (Anora & Alistair). I highly doubt Briala would be completely immune to any type of persuasion the Inquisitor can conjure up. Also, there's no proof that Briala is the game's Loghain. The only reason Loghain was an antagonist was because he betrayed the king and attempted to frame the wardens because he was afraid of some non existent threat. Unless Briala pulls some Benedict Arnold stunt or screws over the inquisition in some way; I doubt we'll be forced to kill her.
And as it stands right now, there's no reason for her to throw a stick into the gears of the Inquisition seeing as how the Veil tears threaten everyone. Also considering if the Inquisitor is Dalish; this will likely lead to some sort of exchange between the Inquisition and Briala. I would much rather have her Eluvian network than scrambled Orlesian forces fighting for their lord's claim to emperor. If anything, the chance the Inquisitor can convince Celene and Briala to compromise is quite high if history is a judge. Maybe the price will be to burn certain Orlesian noble houses to the ground or just simply wipe out Gaspard's army. For too long the end result has just been, "the elves need to fall in line because.... they're elves." I say screw that, maybe the racist assholes in charge need to fall in line.
Orlais was beaten before by the elves. Other Kingdoms did come to their rescue. The question is why would they do that now when Orlais hasn't been a very good neighbor and has threatened other human Kingdoms. I can't see Ferelden coming in to help.
They don't have to help. Nevarra has been having issues with Orlais for years, especially in regards to the Chantry. The minute they see the level of chaos in Orlais, they are gonna swoop in and clean house. The elves cannot hope to fight both Orlesians and Nevarrans, especially if the Mortalitasi come in to play as well.
Briala wants elven men, women, and children to have a better future, to be free, so she's going to take advantage of the civil war to make that happen. I don't see her as the equivalent of Loghain, since no one has said saving the political system of Orlais is mandatory. I see her as a possible option to side with, especially for an elven Inquisitor who may have no desire to rescue the Orlesian Empire.
Fair enough, I misspoke. Her goal is not diametrically opposed to the Inquisition, but her stated method
Briala wants elven men, women, and children to have a better future, to be free, so she's going to take advantage of the civil war to make that happen. I don't see her as the equivalent of Loghain, since no one has said saving the political system of Orlais is mandatory. I see her as a possible option to side with, especially for an elven Inquisitor who may have no desire to rescue the Orlesian Empire.
You speak as though you're privy to the complete storyline of Inquisition, but we all know this isn't the case. I don't think helping the elves will be precluded for the player, and aside from some negative opinions about Briala, I've read nothing that indicates that the player will be forced to support Celene or Gaspard.
Fair enough, I misspoke. Her goal is not completely opposed to ours, but I feel safe in assuming her stated method is.
Look Lobsel, it's obvious you and I are approaching this issue from different perspectives, so let me pose you a question. Do you think Briala's Fen'Harel gambit will help the world defend itself against the demons? Do you think teleporting elven assassins weakening the strongest nation in Thedas will improve our odds of sealing the veil tears? Will a nascent and unstable elven nation be more beneficial to our cause than the Orlesian Empire?
Serious question, I want to try and understand where you're coming from.
Yeah...not the Dalish. At least not from what I have seen so far. She'll probably stick to the CEs.
Why did the writer add this:
"Your people are my people, even if they've forgotten it. I will work with the Dalish, but only if they help all our people. Pass that on to the next clan you meet."
I don't think she is ruling out the Dalish and the Dalish maybe interested because she has something they want.
They don't have to help. Nevarra has been having issues with Orlais for years, especially in regards to the Chantry. The minute they see the level of chaos in Orlais, they are gonna swoop in and clean house. The elves cannot hope to fight both Orlesians and Nevarrans, especially if the Mortalitasi come in to play as well.
I'll wait and see.
...Did you even read what I posted? They specifically discuss hamstringing one side when it gets too much of an advantage over the other. She even references the Anaris and Andruil story Felassan told her earlier, when the Dread Wolf prolonged the fight between the two by distracting whoever was winning in order to achieve his own ends.
That was not the point you used.
Anyway, it matter not if she is prolonging the fight. She still not at fault being that the issue with the people fighting. Why help the people who's good graces comes and goes as the wind. The issue is that the elves and commoners are pawns to the nobles wimes. Helping one side would never solve that problem, it expands it. If the issue is that innocent die because the nobles fight then those innocent should make it so that the nobles never have that type of power again.
You say Briala should help one side to make the fight quicker and less lives be lost from it. But you miss one thing, what makes sure this type of fight never happens again. You miss the issue here. It's the noble that are the issue.
It's the cynicism some in this forum have about the Dalish, despite the lore making it clear that the clans are different and varied. Given the willingness of one clan to take in an abandoned human child, and the clans pledging to aid during the Blights, I don't think it's unrealistic to think some of the People would be willing to help all the elves.
I'll agree with Lobsel on this. The one clan we ran into in TME were assholes, but none of the other Dalish we've seen have abandoned their urban cousins. Maybe it's just an Orlesian thing, and the clans in other countries are more reasonable?
I'll agree with Lobsel on this. The one clan we ran into in TME were assholes, but none of the other Dalish we've seen have abandoned their urban cousins. Maybe it's just an Orlesian thing, and the clans in other countries are more reasonable?
Well, I guess we will find out soon enough. Isn't there some big ol' clan meeting soon?
And as it stands right now, there's no reason for her to throw a stick into the gears of the Inquisition seeing as how the Veil tears threaten everyone. Also considering if the Inquisitor is Dalish; this will likely lead to some sort of exchange between the Inquisition and Briala. I would much rather have her Eluvian network than scrambled Orlesian forces fighting for their lord's claim to emperor. If anything, the chance the Inquisitor can convince Celene and Briala to compromise is quite high if history is a judge. Maybe the price will be to burn certain Orlesian noble houses to the ground or just simply wipe out Gaspard's army. For too long the end result has just been, "the elves need to fall in line because.... they're elves." I say screw that, maybe the racist assholes in charge need to fall in line.
I would like to point out that we're not exactly swimming in a wealth of DAI information. Yes, this is all speculation. I have no proof for any of it, and nobody else does either.
That said, I'm not saying Briala won't change her mind. I've got nothing against her as a character. Her plan would actually be only marginally stupid under normal circumstances. But the world is about to end, and now is not a time for internal division. And you may not like those racist assholes, but guess what? Those racist assholes have the strongest army in Thedas, with thousands of trained, armed, and armored soldiers. Not to mention the hugely extensive Orlesian spy network, the Chevaliers, their navy, their thriving economy, their influence with the Chantry, and the two Circles of Magi within their borders. That's a lot more useful than a few Dalish clans, so they get to make the elves fall in line. As they always have...
Look Lobsel, it's obvious you and I are approaching this issue from different perspectives, so let me pose you a question. Do you think Briala's Fen'Harel gambit will help the world defend itself against the demons? Do you think teleporting elven assassins weakening the strongest nation in Thedas will improve our odds of sealing the veil tears? Will a nascent and unstable elven nation be more beneficial to our cause than the Orlesian Empire?
Serious question, I want to try and understand where you're coming from.
I would like to point out that we're not exactly swimming in a wealth of DAI information. Yes, this is all speculation. I have no proof for any of it, and nobody else does either.
That said, I'm not saying Briala won't change her mind. I've got nothing against her as a character. Her plan would actually be only marginally stupid under normal circumstances. But the world is about to end, and now is not a time for internal division. And you may not like those racist assholes, but guess what? Those racist assholes have the strongest army in Thedas, with thousands of trained, armed, and armored soldiers. Not to mention the hugely extensive Orlesian spy network, the Chevaliers, their navy, their thriving economy, their influence with the Chantry, and the two Circles of Magi within their borders. That's a lot more useful than a few Dalish clans, so they get to make the elves fall in line. As they always have...
I'm coming from the position that the choices may be left in the hands of the player, rather than dictated to us. The veil tears need to be closed, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Orlesian Empire is mandatory to achieve that end. The Highlands is optional, and this may extend to a plethora of other choices.
Frankly, I'm looking at this from the perspective that some players may want to ally with Briala because her goal aligns with their protagonist's own. It's not about what's optimal, but whether or not the Inquisitor would be willing to take the chance to use his (or her) position to bring about change.
For example, I think the Dalish Inquisitor could have reservations about helping the Orlesian Empire, given what happened to the Dales. If Briala is offering an alternative in helping free the elves, it's not implausible to think some players would prefer to pursue that, over siding with Gaspard or Celene.
You didn't answer my question, but alright, I see your point. So basically, you would sacrifice the superior value of the Orlesian Empire in order to do the right thing and help the elves? Kinda like destroying the Anvil and hoping you can beat the blight without it?
Well, it would be cool if they allowed you to do that, and I hope you get the chance to, but I don't think it's very likely. The standard Bioware formula is "go here, sort out these problems, come back with an army". In DAO, they told you to go the Brecillian Forest and get the Dalish to help. And while you could make a choice and get either the Dalish or the Werewolves, you couldn't come back empty-handed. Same with Bhelen/Harrowmont, Mages/Templars, Geth/Quarians, Salarians/Krogan. I don't know, it just seems the odds are bad.
...When did I ever say I wanted Briala to pick aside? That's entirely irrelevant to my point. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue about, but you don't seem to grasp mine. Let me post this again,That was not the point you used.
Anyway, it matter not if she is prolonging the fight. She still not at fault being that the issue with the people fighting. Why help the people who's good graces comes and goes as the wind. The issue is that the elves and commoners are pawns to the nobles wimes. Helping one side would never solve that problem, it expands it. If the issue is that innocent die because the nobles fight then those innocent should make it so that the nobles never have that type of power again.
You say Briala should help one side to make the fight quicker and less lives be lost from it. But you miss one thing, what makes sure this type of fight never happens again. You miss the issue here. It's the noble that are the issue.
She wants the civil war to go on as long as possible. Who do you think suffers the day to day violence, rapes, pillaging and murder as the war rages across Orlais? The nobles? Certainly they stand to lose much, but it is the common people that die on a daily basis every day she works to keep this war from reaching a conclusion. Given that her own people have suffered on a daily basis from such abuse, Briala's willingness to perpetuate such treatment on others wins her no points in my book."Which army are you going to hamstring?"
Briala looked over at Felassan, smiling, even as she started to shiver from the winter's chill. "Whichever one seems to be winning. What was it? Anaris and Andruil?"
Felassan smiled. "You prolong their fight, and in the chaos, your people work free from their bonds?"
...When did I ever say I wanted Briala to pick aside? That's entirely irrelevant to my point. I'm not sure what you're trying to argue about, but you don't seem to grasp mine. Let me post this again,She wants the civil war to go on as long as possible. Who do you think suffers the day to day violence, rapes, pillaging and murder as the war rages across Orlais? The nobles? Certainly they stand to lose much, but it is the common people that die on a daily basis every day she works to keep this war from reaching a conclusion. Given that her own people have suffered on a daily basis from such abuse, Briala's willingness to perpetuate such treatment on others wins her no points in my book.
1. Picking a side ends the war and saves the innocence you're going on and on about.
2.You're misunderstanding the quote. It's not that she want the war to last longer. It's that her actions would result in that. She care not for how long the war last because it will not effect the people she want to protect. Big difference.
And why should she help end the war. Doing that is just going to give more power to the noble who started the war in the first place allowing them the chance to do it all over again. These innocence you go on about need to go out and make sure the noble don't have this power anymore.
You missing the point here that her help is just going to make the problem worse
You didn't answer my question, but alright, I see your point. So basically, you would sacrifice the superior value of the Orlesian Empire in order to do the right thing and help the elves? Kinda like destroying the Anvil and hoping you can beat the blight without it?
Well, it would be cool if they allowed you to do that, and I hope you get the chance to, but I don't think it's very likely. The standard Bioware formula is "go here, sort out these problems, come back with an army". In DAO, they told you to go the Brecillian Forest and get the Dalish to help. And while you could make a choice and get either the Dalish or the Werewolves, you couldn't come back empty-handed. Same with Bhelen/Harrowmont, Mages/Templars, Geth/Quarians, Salarians/Krogan. I don't know, it just seems the odds are bad.
It's not that I personally dislike her, I just don't think she is a faction. There's no way she could could win the civil war, and there's no way she could lose the civil war because she is not a participant in it. Like I said, her interests are diametrically opposed to ours, Celene's, and Gaspards. Everyone else wants, a strong, powerful, united Orlais, while she wants an anarchic collection of feuding warlords and petty disputes that she can take advantage of.
From what we have seen, I think she will be the Loghain of DAI. Sure, he was sympathetic, and yeah, you didn't have to kill him, but the game didn't let you join his side either. Because at the end of the day, Dragon Age Origins was about the blight, not screwing over treacherous Orlesians. And Dragon Age Inquisition will be about closing the veil tears, not creating an elven state. Sorry, maybe next time?
Speak for yourself. I don't give a damn about Orlais. If the Eluvian network is more useful to me for stopping the Veil tears than Orlesian armies, I'll take that and leave the nobles to burn.
And the game did let you accomplish Loghain's goals, namely saving Ferelden.
1. Picking a side ends the war and saves the innocence you're going on and on about.
2.You're misunderstanding the quote. It's not that she want the war to last longer. It's that her action would result in that. She care not for how long the war last because it will not effect the people she want to protect. Big difference.
And why should she help end the war. Doing that is just going to give more power to the noble who started the war in the first place allowing them the chance to do it all over again. These innocence you go on about need to go out and make sure the noble don't have this power anymore.
You missing the point here that her help is just going to make the problem worse
True. i thought she was pretty reasonable when she still supported Celene even when Celene had her arrested. I remember in the book it seemed she had some reservations when Celene talked about the elves working with the mirrors to help Celenes cause. I think she was beginning to see that Celene was just going to use them to get what she wanted and could throw them under the bus if she needed to. When she finds out Celene killed her parents, the question could turns into a for sure.
Speak for yourself. I don't give a damn about Orlais. If the Eluvian network is more useful to me for stopping the Veil tears than Orlesian armies, I'll take that and leave the nobles to burn.
Anyone who isn't a racist would, IMO. There's just to real choice for the Inquisition here, if there is a "side with one faction of three situation" - the goal should be to side with whoever is best at stopping the demons.
Keep in mind that you're not letting thee nobles burn - you're letting hundreds/thousands of poor peasants die for the opportunity to enrich their betters. Orlais is a classist society as much as it is a segregated one.
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