1992 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

It's possible, but I don't think it would be nearly as good if the deconstruction wasn't followed by a reconstruction. The concept is far from lacking in merit, after all.

 

The reconstruction would likely be of valiant reform efforts, rather than violent reform efforts (which would be the deconstruction of heroic reform). Making a stand to convince a culture to change, rather than thinking you can make it do so by force or by working to destroy it.

 

In any reconstruction including a non-segregated society, the revolutionary rhetoric of 'freedom is taken, not given' will probably be discredited. Social integration is given by others, not taken by force.

 

Mind you, the reconstruction could well come in the next game. Or a few further on.

[Ryzaki]

Yeah, we don't need to screw either of those groups, the game will do it for us.

 

"I want the mages to be free.

No.

Ok."

 

"I want the elves to have a bann.

Stoned to death or run away or assassinated."

 

Eh bann works if it's the PC sort of. The main issue was too many elves from other lands were coming in. But it seems the issue was solved without the king/queen having to get involved in that scenario.

 

 

And on that note I'm still disapointed we're forced to be Dalish if we want to play an elf in DAI.

 

Just when I start to ignore it you bring it up

[MisterJB]

This is dependent on your Inquisitor knowing that a password exists, that Briala is the only one who has it, and that she is stupid enough to push for a deal with the inquisition without finding out as much about the Inquisitor as possible. 

 

She is a bard after all.

True but any deal made between the Inquisition and Briala will, necessarely, involved the one card she had to play with, the Eluvians. And while she might take actions on behalf of the Inquisition so as to not reveal her methods; for instance, assassination; will naturally be reduced in scope to the possibilities if we had direct contact with the Eluvians; for instance, passing an army through the mirrors. Therefore, if Briala wishes to earn enough of our gratitude to secure the future of the elves, she will need to reveal the existence of the Eluvians.
When that happens, she will either have to keep the secret of how they work only to herself; in which case, she makes herself  a target; or she'll have to share it with her lieutenants and while that would disperse the focus of people who want to control the Eluvians away from her, it would also increase the possibilities of there being a weak chain.

And when that happens, there's nothing stoping the Inquisition from simply taking the Eluvians from the elves.

[Steelcan]

What the Dalish got in Ferelden barely counts as land. And even if the dalish had an outright utopia in Ferelden that doesn't mean anything for the CEs plight in Orlais.

 

Couldn't care less, if they are truly desperate for their own land they can hoof it to Ferelden

[Hellion Rex]

True but any deal made between the Inquisition and Briala will, necessarely, involved the one card she had to play with, the Eluvians. And while she might take actions on behalf of the Inquisition so as to not reveal her methods; for instance, assassination; will naturally be reduced in scope to the possibilities if we had direct contact with the Eluvians; for instance, passing an army through the mirrors. Therefore, if Briala wishes to earn enough of our gratitude to secure the future of the elves, she will need to reveal the existence of the Eluvians.
When that happens, she will either have to keep the secret of how they work only to herself; in which case, she makes herself  a target; or she'll have to share it with her lieutenants and while that would disperse the focus of people who want to control the Eluvians away from her, it would also increase the possibilities of there being a weak chain.

And when that happens, there's nothing stoping the Inquisition from simply taking the Eluvians from the elves.

What happened to smashing them?

[Xilizhra]

The reconstruction would likely be of valiant reform efforts, rather than violent reform efforts (which would be the deconstruction of heroic reform). Making a stand to convince a culture to change, rather than thinking you can make it do so by force or by working to destroy it.

 

In any reconstruction including a non-segregated society, the revolutionary rhetoric of 'freedom is taken, not given' will probably be discredited. Social integration is given by others, not taken by force.

 

Mind you, the reconstruction could well come in the next game. Or a few further on.

It can involve both. While reforming an entire cannot often be done violently (although the qunari have had some success in that field), individual tyrants often do require violence to remove.

 

Of course, the city elves aren't violently revolting as such and the mages are only fighting a renegade ex-military order, not a whole culture, so I don't know how relevant that was to begin with.

[MisterJB]

What happened to smashing them?

We should just smash the elves instead. They are not nearly as useful as the Eluvians.

[Steelcan]

What happened to smashing them?

use them, then smash them

[Hellion Rex]

We should just smash the elves instead. They are not nearly as useful as the Eluvians.

Damn, that was pretty cold. Still, it's gonna be damn near impossible to catch Briala, since she could just teleport to the other end of the country.

[Hellion Rex]

use them, then smash them

Eh, I'm still wary to even attempt to use them. Who knows what else might come through?

[Steelcan]

Damn, that was pretty cold. Still, it's gonna be damn near impossible to catch Briala, since she could just teleport to the other end of the country.

very annoying boss battle quasi-confirmed

[LobselVith8]

Couldn't care less, if they are truly desperate for their own land they can hoof it to Ferelden

The Dalish only get the Hinterlands if the Hero of Ferelden was Dalish, so having land where they have sovereignty is still an issue in some cases.

[Shadow Fox]

We should just smash the elves instead. They are not nearly as useful as the Eluvians.

But I like elves.

[Hellion Rex]

But I like elves.

Just the Dalish, dear. City elves are good.

[AresKeith]

Just the Dalish, dear. City elves are good.

 

I can live with that, as long as the benevolent clans are ok lol

[Steelcan]

The Dalish only get the Hinterlands if the Hero of Ferelden was Dalish, so having land where they have sovereignty is still an issue in some cases.

 

Its only an issue if you care

 

Last I checked the Inquisitions goal wasn't "go crusading for social justice across Thedas"

[Shadow Fox]

Just the Dalish, dear. City elves are good.

*Hides his Dalish waifu Warden.*

[LobselVith8]

Its only an issue if you care
 
Last I checked the Inquisitions goal wasn't "go crusading for social justice across Thedas"

I don't recall the developers prohibiting us from pursuing certain goals in the midst of the veil tears. There's nothing about the cataclysm to prevent the player from aiding certain people, in the same way The Warden could help the Mages Collective and Hawke could provide aid to the mage underground.

[Hellion Rex]

*Hides his Dalish waifu Warden.*

*draws staff*

[Steelcan]

I don't recall the developers prohibiting us from pursuing certain goals in the midst of the veil tears. There's nothing about the cataclysm to prevent the player from aiding certain people, in the same way The Warden could help the Mages Collective and Hawke could provide aid to the mage underground.

 

The Mages Collective was also supposedly helping the Wardens in the Blight iirc

 

and that worked out real well didn't it?

[Banxey]

True but any deal made between the Inquisition and Briala will, necessarely, involved the one card she had to play with, the Eluvians. And while she might take actions on behalf of the Inquisition so as to not reveal her methods; for instance, assassination; will naturally be reduced in scope to the possibilities if we had direct contact with the Eluvians; for instance, passing an army through the mirrors. Therefore, if Briala wishes to earn enough of our gratitude to secure the future of the elves, she will need to reveal the existence of the Eluvians.
When that happens, she will either have to keep the secret of how they work only to herself; in which case, she makes herself  a target; or she'll have to share it with her lieutenants and while that would disperse the focus of people who want to control the Eluvians away from her, it would also increase the possibilities of there being a weak chain.

And when that happens, there's nothing stoping the Inquisition from simply taking the Eluvians from the elves.

 

I'm fairly certain she can control the Eluvians from the central chamber so she never has to let anyone from the Inquisition get near her or these supposed lieutenants in order to give the Inquisition access. 

 

She's no fool. If she suspects she is going to be betrayed, she can very easily trap a rather large chunk of your forces on the path between two mirrors.

[Shadow Fox]

*draws staff*

*draws daggers*

[LobselVith8]

The Mages Collective was also supposedly helping the Wardens in the Blight iirc
 
and that worked out real well didn't it?

You're thinking of the Blackstone Irregulars.

[Hellion Rex]

*draws daggers*

*slits wrist*

[Dean_the_Young]

It can involve both. While reforming an entire cannot often be done violently (although the qunari have had some success in that field), individual tyrants often do require violence to remove.

 

Of course, the city elves aren't violently revolting as such and the mages are only fighting a renegade ex-military order, not a whole culture, so I don't know how relevant that was to begin with.

 

The Qunari do not practice reform. The Qunari practice re-education indoctrination. They break apart a culture and put it back together.

 

Nor are the issues involved with the mages and city elves issues of individual tyrants. They are the results of systemic cultural practices and social divisions. Humans don't discriminate against elves because nobles or royals tell them to, and mundanes don't fear and suspect the power of mages because the Chantry tells them to. The City elves have already engaged in violent rebellion, and the mages are fighting to break an established cultural norm of societal segregation.
 

If you don't know how that is relevant to begin with, that is your failing.