682 réponses à ce sujet

[Mockingword]

Just out of curiosity, do you feel the same way about books and film as well? 

I do.

 

The fact is that sex scenes in books and film serve little to no purpose, beyond titillation. They don't advance the story, they don't add anything to characterisation.

 

Unless your protagonist's favourite position is going to be a key plot point later, then there's really no reason to include a sex scene at all.

 

There's nothing wrong with titillation, and I'm not against sex scenes in the least, but we should stop pretending that they are necessary content for a "mature" product..

[AresKeith]

 

Well, this thread just went downhill quickly.  

 

You know you love it

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Well, this thread just went downhill quickly.  

It's a sex thread. Did you think it would go anywhere else? 

[Grieving Natashina]

You know you love it

Er...I can think of healthier ways to get my schadenfreude fix.

 

 

It's a sex thread. Did you think it would go anywhere else? 

That was just...abrupt, even for the BSN.

 

You guys have fun in here and try not to get into trouble.  

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Surprised this hasn't been locked yet, these types of threads generally don't end well

[Han Shot First]

Surprised this hasn't been locked yet, these types of threads generally don't end well

 

It has been civil. I think where these threads have ended up locked in the past is when people start bickering over it.

[Mes]

Lol you guys are so negative! This thread has been fine thus far I think.

[CybAnt1]

I do.

 

The fact is that sex scenes in books and film serve little to no purpose, beyond titillation. They don't advance the story, they don't add anything to characterisation.

 

 

Holy crap. Erotic fiction just went flying out the window .... 

 

I take it you've never read Lady Chatterley's Lover, Delta of Venus, Lolita, Tropic of Cancer, or the Story of O. Anais Nin ...   her writing. 

 

Plus I hear there is this novel that is really quite popular these days, called Fifty Shades of Gray.  So I've heard. 

 

Translated into 52 languages, and read by (so far) 100 million people. (P.S. I'm not engaging the debate over its actual literary quality.) 

 

We can argue over the dividing line between 'obscene' porn and erotica. The Miller vs. California decision tended to take the viewpoint that 'obscene' porn had no redeeming artistic or literary value, whereas erotica did, despite its sexual content. 

 

So when it comes to films, I won't discuss porn, but ... I still would disagree with your claim about erotic films (which IMHO are not exactly the same thing), such as Black Swan, 9 1/2 Weeks, and The Lover. Oh, and then there's this one, coming to a screen near you. 

 

Nymphomaniac

http://en.wikipedia....homaniac_(film)

 

P.S. all this is really tangential to whether sex scenes belong in DAI, or how they should be depicted, but is not a claim I could let stand. 

[bairdduvessa]

team america world police the uncut version

[CENIC]

team america world police the uncut version

Sooooo... when the Inquisitor and his/her LI are ready to get freaky, they turn into puppets and have graphic puppet sex? BRILLIANT.

[AppealToReason]

Watching an actual sex scene is weird, also creepy. Also, hilarious. Please no. Don't bother. I don't understand the people who want this. I really struggle finding the appeal.

 

Fade to black is fine.

 

Also helps me avoid having it randomly happen when my GF/friends enter the room and then they think I'm a bigger giant creepazoid loser.

[Mes]

Watching an actual sex scene is weird, also creepy. Also, hilarious. Please no. Don't bother. I don't understand the people who want this. I really struggle finding the appeal.

 

Fade to black is fine.

 

Also helps me avoid having it randomly happen when my GF/friends enter the room and then they think I'm a bigger giant creepazoid loser.

 

Saaaaaaammmmeeeee!!

[CybAnt1]

That's what Boss Keys are for. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_key

 

For when you're doing something at work other than work, or when significant others/family members walk into the room and you're looking at ... stuff. 

 

Here, I'll point you to a download site. 

 

http://download.cnet...4-10422184.html

 

Does require Windows 7 or 8. 

[Mockingword]

Holy crap. Erotic fiction just went flying out the window .... 

 

I take it you've never read Lady Chatterley's Lover, Delta of Venus, Lolita, Tropic of Cancer, or the Story of O. Anais Nin ...   her writing. 

 

Plus I hear there is this novel that is really quite popular these days, called Fifty Shades of Gray.  So I've heard. 

 

Translated into 52 languages, and read by (so far) 100 million people. (P.S. I'm not engaging the debate over its actual literary quality.) 

 

We can argue over the dividing line between 'obscene' porn and erotica. The Miller vs. California decision tended to take the viewpoint that 'obscene' porn had no redeeming artistic or literary value, whereas erotica did, despite its sexual content. 

 

So when it comes to films, I won't discuss porn, but ... I still would disagree with your claim about erotic films (which IMHO are not exactly the same thing), such as Black Swan, 9 1/2 Weeks, and The Lover. Oh, and then there's this one, coming to a screen near you. 

 

Nymphomaniac

http://en.wikipedia....homaniac_(film)

 

P.S. all this is really tangential to whether sex scenes belong in DAI, or how they should be depicted, but is not a claim I could let stand. 

As you say, these works are erotic fiction. Their whole purpose is to be titillating, so naturally, they have sex scenes.

 

I don't see how this refutes my claim that sex scenes exist for titillation. The plot of Lady Chatterly's Lover (ie, the drama of her affair, her crumbling marriage and the resultant scandal), does not progress during the sex scenes. The consequences of her affair will still occur, even if you, the reader, are not privy to every graphic detail of her sexual encounters.

[King Mark XNIRX]

#4 Either do it properly or don't do it at all. The relationship scenes in DA and ME were so cheesy and watching two emotionless characters awkwardly touching and blankly staring at each other was embarrassing. 

[CybAnt1]

As you say, these works are erotic fiction. Their whole purpose is to be titillating, so naturally, they have sex scenes.

 

I don't see how this refutes my claim that sex scenes exist for titillation. The plot of Lady Chatterly's Lover (ie, the drama of her affair, her crumbling marriage and the resultant scandal), does not progress during the sex scenes. The consequences of her affair will still occur, even if you, the reader, are not privy to every graphic detail of her sexual encounters.

 

I don't think you understand D.H. Lawrence well if you would argue he would want the book to be shorn of the "sex scenes". After all, the book faced an Obscenity Trial, and several other authors came to his and its defense. Lawrence could have easily removed the more "scandalous" passages, but refused to. I think if you examine his driving literary passions, you might see why. 

 

The book is about far more about sex scenes, it's even about deeper themes than the story of an affair, such as a changing society ... but having read the book, and knowing the author, I do not think HE would agree with you that the book would serve the same purposes without those scenes. 

 

At the end of the day, writing is (or can be) a very sensual medium. By that, I mean a writer can evoke the feeling of a warm sunbeam on your skin, the feeling of a dipping into a cool spring on a hot day, or the moist sensuous feeling in your mouth of consuming a madeleine cake. Is that "titillation"? And if so, why shouldn't they do it? 

 

Only when what they chose to evoke are feelings of an erotic nature, do people now somehow say that serves no purpose. I would say for D.H. Lawrence it served a definite purpose, of curing and counteracting a mind and body being divided from each other in an industrial civilization. 

 

We're far away from the interesting questions of whether a video game can do a sex scene right - and it's possible that with the current goals for most video game writers as well as the tools available to them and the audiences they have to satisfy, most here are right that the answer is "no" - but no, I'm sorry, I will not agree that you could remove the sex scenes from Lawrence's novel, and still have the same book. 

 

I happen to believe that literature can get sex scenes right, the problem right now is most game authors - and yes, alas, perhaps Bioware as well - are not trying hard enough to write games worthy of being called literature or art. And that is the larger meta-problem. 

[Mockingword]

I don't think you understand D.H. Lawrence well if you would argue he would want the book to be shorn of the "sex scenes". After all, the book faced an Obscenity Trial, and several other authors came to his and its defense. Lawrence could have easily removed the more "scandalous" passages, but refused to. I think if you examine his driving literary passions, you might see why. 

 

The book is about far more about sex scenes, it's even about deeper themes than the story of an affair, such as a changing society ... but having read the book, and knowing the author, I do not think HE would agree with you that the book would serve the same purposes without those scenes. 

 

At the end of the day, writing is (or can be) a very sensual medium. By that, I mean a writer can evoke the feeling of a warm sunbeam on your skin, the feeling of a dipping into a cool spring on a hot day, or the moist sensuous feeling in your mouth of consuming a madeleine cake. Is that "titillation"? And if so, why shouldn't they do it? 

 

Only when what they chose to evoke are feelings of an erotic nature, do people now somehow say that serves no purpose. I would say for D.H. Lawrence it served a definite purpose, of curing and counteracting a mind and body being divided from each other in an industrial civilization. 

 

We're far away from the interesting questions of whether a video game can do a sex scene right - and it's possible that with the current goals for most video game writers as well as the tools available to them and the audiences they have to satisfy, most here are right that the answer is "no" - but no, I'm sorry, I will not agree that you could remove the sex scenes from Lawrence's novel, and still have the same book. 

 

I happen to believe that literature can get sex scenes right, the problem right now is most game authors - and yes, alas, perhaps Bioware as well - are not trying hard enough to write games worthy of being called literature or art. And that is the larger meta-problem. 

Okay, first of all, I spent an entire semester studying that obscenity trial.

 

Secondly, I don't think you understand my argument at all. I am not arguing for nudity to be absent from DA:I, although I admit I wouldn't miss it. Nor am I arguing for its removal on the basis of it being low-quality. I don't really give a damn if the game has nudity or not.

 

I am addressing the fact that the argument in favour of nudity (ie; 'maturity') is, in fact, a flimsy, transparent cover-up for the fact that some dudes just want to see breasts. And it is breasts, because the few people here who might be interested in seeing naked men, have so far been very up-front about it.

 

What D.H. Lawrence might have wanted to be done with his work is irrelevent to what I am saying. The point is you don't need the sex scenes to understand the plot or the characters. Of course the book would not serve the same purpose if you took the sex scenes out, because its purpose is to be erotic. But the plot would not actually change at all, and neither would the characterisation, because the plot and the characterisation do not actually rely on graphic sex scenes in order to make sense.

 

I don't really give a **** if people want to see pixel knockers. What I want is for them to just be damn well honest about it, rather than trying to couch their desires in 'maturity' when, in fact, there is nothing inherently 'mature' about nudity at all. If anything, this obsession with nudity is shallow and juvenile.

 

To reiterate: the act of including nudity doesn't bother me. The act of clamouring specifically for female nudity (under the guise of making the game more 'mature') does bother me very much, because it is sexist and dishonest and not mature at all.

[Monoten]

preferably  number 4, but with an option that allows number 2. 

[Faerlyte]

I have trouble not feeling silly whenever Bioware games enter the territory of 'sex' scenes, but that stems in part from the fact that it never looks natural to me graphically speaking. And the writing is 'meh'. I also feel like a voyeur into somebody's personal life and that's just not my thing, 

 

1 is fine with me. It adds nothing to my gaming experience to watch video game characters banging out. 

[Bizantura]

It will be the style it allways is.  A lot to do about nothing and a lot af people fainting because of the "imagined" porn they saw.

[phantomrachie]

I would prefer option 3 - like in ME and to a lesser extent ME3.

 

The issue with option 4 is that it is generally used as an excuse to show breasts. I never once saw Geralt's penis but I saw plenty of poorly animated breasts. 

[Fredward]

I would prefer option 3 - like in ME and to a lesser extent ME3.

 

The issue with option 4 is that it is generally used as an excuse to show breasts. I never once saw Geralt's penis but I saw plenty of poorly animated breasts. 

 

Full frontal male nudity is death.

[AlanC9]

 

 

I don't see how this refutes my claim that sex scenes exist for titillation. The plot of Lady Chatterly's Lover (ie, the drama of her affair, her crumbling marriage and the resultant scandal), does not progress during the sex scenes. The consequences of her affair will still occur, even if you, the reader, are not privy to every graphic detail of her sexual encounters.

 

Your conclusion does not follow. I can think of plenty of sex scenes in books that are about characterization, not titillation. I don't suppose you've ever read any Updike, have you?

 

If you're just making the claim that such scenes are never necessary, you're right. But what of it?

[Felya87]

I'm fine with a fade to black, or a middle ground between #2 and #3. as long as the female character isn't the only one revealing skin. need more male nipples and less boobs in videogames. you know...not only males like to see skin eh!

 

 

(the only moment I liked in FFXIII)

[Spawny]

1 with a dash of 3, I'm happy to use my imagination