682 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

There's enough pornography. Less is more.

What is considered pornography and how much is too much are both entirely subjective things.

[Chashan]

The dialogue matters very much so. I'd take good dialogue over any kind of sex scene.

 

We agree on priorities, then.
 

 

But the thing is, chances are there is going to BE a climatic scene. [...]

 

 

That climax being intercourse is by no means mandatory. I'd be perfectly fine with a kiss, as I mentioned, and leave it at that.

[Grieving Natashina]

What's wrong with Isabela's scene?

Seconded.  I honestly thought that was the best out of the game.  I thought it was a nice touch to see both Hawke and Isabela discarding weapons as they were kissing with each other.  I would figure that (in that game) two rogues might be spending a few to get rid of daggers.  The level of passion between the two had me pleasantly surprised.  Without nudity.

 

@ Some of the posters  Ah, kids today.  Someday, you'll learn that you can be mature and adult without needing to see breasts and wangs everywhere.  There are plenty of other games with varying quality where you can see all the pixel-on-pixel action you want.  Some of them are AAA games, and I'm sure you could write to one of them asking for "hardcore sex and nudity."  That's fine for those companies, but let's keep that type of "maturity" out of Dragon Age.  

 

One day you'll appreciate the subtlies in romance in all sorts of media, including video games.  Porn is like alcohol: It's usually more fun when you are younger and it's "illicit."  Once you hit the legal age in your country, after the first year or so, it isn't as much fun for many folks anymore.  It's easy to get and no longer has the "forbidden fruit" aspect to it.  Porn is the same way. There are plenty of sites as an adult that I can go to, and plenty of (ick) games I could download that could give me all sorts of nudity in any fashion I could think of.  

 

So I think I speak for most of the legal adults when I say: We are not playing the Dragon Age games for "hardcore dirty full-frontal" sex.  We're playing it for the story.  Unless someone can give a valid story reason for showing hardcore sex, then it's apparent that some are just asking for titillation.  I can think of a few good story reasons for the level of violence in the games, but hardcore sex?  Wrong company, wrong game and not what they are going to do for Inquisition. 

[Gwydden]

Seconded.  I honestly thought that was the best out of the game.  I thought it was a nice touch to see both Hawke and Isabela discarding weapons as they were kissing with each other.  I would figure that (in that game) two rogues might be spending a few to get rid of daggers.  The level of passion between the two had me pleasantly surprised.  Without nudity.

 

@ Some of the posters  Ah, kids today.  Someday, you'll learn that you can be mature and adult without needing to see breasts and wangs everywhere.  There are plenty of other games with varying quality where you can see all the pixel-on-pixel action you want.  Some of them are AAA games, and I'm sure you could write to one of them asking for "hardcore sex and nudity."  That's fine for those companies, but let's keep that type of "maturity" out of Dragon Age.  

 

One day you'll appreciate the subtlies in romance in all sorts of media, including video games.  Porn is like alcohol: It's usually more fun when you are younger and it's "illicit."  Once you hit the legal age in your country, after the first year or so, it isn't as much fun for many folks anymore.  It's easy to get and no longer has the "forbidden fruit" aspect to it.  Porn is the same way. There are plenty of sites as an adult that I can go to, and plenty of (ick) games I could download that could give me all sorts of nudity in any fashion I could think of.  

 

So I think I speak for most of the legal adults when I say: We are not playing the Dragon Age games for "hardcore dirty full-frontal" sex.  We're playing it for the story.  Unless someone can give a valid story reason for showing hardcore sex, then it's apparent that some are just asking for titillation.  I can think of a few good story reasons for the level of violence in the games, but hardcore sex?  Wrong company, wrong game and not what they are going to do for Inquisition. 

Just in case I was among the people you were addressing here, I'd like to clarify in no way was I asking for hardcore sex in DA, a.k.a. option 4. I wouldn't mind it, but I don't particularly care for it either. I don't think it fits the game, and I would very much prefer variations of options 1 and 3. Earlier I was speaking in general, not DA in specific. I will be happy no matter what Bioware does in this regard, as long as it isn't 2 (snorts) and I honestly prefer it if they stayed away from 4, but I doubt it will ever happen anyway.

 

With that done (and once again assuming you were at least partially addressing me) I'd like to say a few more things. First, I don't like assumptions. I don't watch porn not have I ever done so. Really. Not because of principle or because 'it's forbidden', but simply because I'm not interested. What little I have come across usually strikes me as either funny or gross. I am perfectly capable of appreciating subtlety and romance. In fact, I very much get a kick out of it. Because, yeah, I play this game for the story and characters, not for a ten seconds scene of censored pixel sex (which I am sure you're aware of).

 

Second, and regardless of what I just said, I also dislike generalizations. As in people saying other people "When you get older, you'll realize that..." No! First, that assumes the other person hasn't realized already. And second, that implies that one person's life experience is applicable to all (or even most) others, no matter how different they are. So even though I'm not a fan of porn or alcohol and I'm perfectly capable of grasping the intricacies of the term 'subtlety' I'd rather random strangers wouldn't tell me what I will or will not do or care about X amount of years from now.

 

Third, I am inclined to believe it is bad form to assume someone's age based only on their particular views. Even if accurate, which it has no reason to be, such guesses may come across as the speaker exhibiting some unrealized superiority complex. Not that I'm saying that is the case, but it may come across that way. I am pretty young, yeah, but I'd like to think that doesn't invalidate my opinion?

 

Finally, I must point out this is not meant as an attack of any form and I was aiming for the most polite, least confrontational exposition I could type. If I wasn't included among the people you were referring to in your post, feel free to ignore it, even if I'd still appreciate an answer.

 

PS: That was longer than I intended 

[Mihura]

Seconded.  I honestly thought that was the best out of the game.  I thought it was a nice touch to see both Hawke and Isabela discarding weapons as they were kissing with each other.  I would figure that (in that game) two rogues might be spending a few to get rid of daggers.  The level of passion between the two had me pleasantly surprised.  Without nudity.

 

@ Some of the posters  Ah, kids today.  Someday, you'll learn that you can be mature and adult without needing to see breasts and wangs everywhere.  There are plenty of other games with varying quality where you can see all the pixel-on-pixel action you want.  Some of them are AAA games, and I'm sure you could write to one of them asking for "hardcore sex and nudity."  That's fine for those companies, but let's keep that type of "maturity" out of Dragon Age.  

 

One day you'll appreciate the subtlies in romance in all sorts of media, including video games.  Porn is like alcohol: It's usually more fun when you are younger and it's "illicit."  Once you hit the legal age in your country, after the first year or so, it isn't as much fun for many folks anymore.  It's easy to get and no longer has the "forbidden fruit" aspect to it.  Porn is the same way. There are plenty of sites as an adult that I can go to, and plenty of (ick) games I could download that could give me all sorts of nudity in any fashion I could think of.  

 

So I think I speak for most of the legal adults when I say: We are not playing the Dragon Age games for "hardcore dirty full-frontal" sex.  We're playing it for the story.  Unless someone can give a valid story reason for showing hardcore sex, then it's apparent that some are just asking for titillation.  I can think of a few good story reasons for the level of violence in the games, but hardcore sex?  Wrong company, wrong game and not what they are going to do for Inquisition. 

 

The only reason I can give you for hardcore sex, is the same on Spartacus. Almost everyone has sex, hetero, gay, bi..etc and you see everything on everyone no expectations but in a way, all sex scene are part of the characterization and the relations they have with each other.

 

If people do not want to do this in games, just leave it for the imagination aka fade to black, less work and less strange mannequins.  

[Grieving Natashina]

Just in case I was among the people you were addressing here, I'd like to clarify in no way was I asking for hardcore sex in DA, a.k.a. option 4. I wouldn't mind it, but I don't particularly care for it either. I don't think it fits the game, and I would very much prefer variations of options 1 and 3. Earlier I was speaking in general, not DA in specific. I will be happy no matter what Bioware does in this regard, as long as it isn't 2 (snorts) and I honestly prefer it if they stayed away from 4, but I doubt it will ever happen anyway.

 

<snipped for space>

First, that wasn't addressed to you.  Not even close to you in any way.  I was more addressing the folks that have said, "I want nasty hardcore sex show me labia lol."  You have not said that, so I didn't even have you in mind.  You've expressed an interest in seeing sex scenes, but you never came across that way.

 

Secondly, that's why I said "some of the posters," not all.  You're taking this way more personally than you should have.  I did add that caveat, so no blanket statements here.  Also, you'll note that I said "most adults" as well.  Where was the blanket statement in that??

 

Third, I was partially assuming that some of the people asking for the "nasty hardcore sex" did not have access to this material.  Superiority complex?  Hardly, merely an observation based on personal experience.  If you wish to read my words as such, then I can't stop you.  Now, a little disgust in my tone was there, no doubt.  I really get sick of folks using "Mature" as an excuse for "nudity."  I have not said that you said this, and I've been reading the thread.  I know you didn't, even if we disagree about sex in Dragon Age.   

 

Finally, you might want to ease up.  It may have not been intended to be an attack towards me, but it sure came off that way.   You came across as very passive-aggressive in your post, towards someone that didn't even quote you.  

 

If you want an answer, that's no problem, but please don't add tone to my words that simply wasn't there.

 

 

The only reason I can give you for hardcore sex, is the same on Spartacus. Almost everyone has sex, hetero, gay, bi..etc and you see everything on everyone no expectations but in a way, all sex scene are part of the characterization and the relations they have with each other.

 

If people do not want to do this in games, just leave it for the imagination aka fade to black, less work and less strange mannequins.  

I used to watch Spartacus and the only reason I can think of for the sex scenes was to juxtapose those against the gladiatorial combat, often showing both at the same time.  Sex and violence, two different sides of the same coin of passion, and it worked for that show.  Unless someone wants to see hardcore sex at the same time as footage of a monster being sliced up in a bloody way, that really wouldn't work for DA.

 

Or how about exactly what BioWare said they are doing for this game: Various stages of undress and shadow, without seeing the actual sex.  

[Gwydden]

I know you didn't, even if we disagree about sex in Dragon Age. 

About what, exactly? I have not notice any significant difference in our opinions. Just curious.

[Grieving Natashina]

About what, exactly? I have not notice any significant difference in our opinions. Just curious.

I like the "no genitalia" rule, and I think it is the most tasteful solution.   I'd rather not see the details behind the actions, and I certainly don't need to see anyone's private parts in a video game.  As a pansexual, this goes for both men and women.

 

I also believe that while your parents (and mine) censored little growing up, it really depends upon the child themselves.  Parenting aside, kids are really their own person after about the age of 4 or so.  So just because we turned out "fine" doesn't mean that it's the best solution for every child.  

 

I also think "less is more" is the best for Dragon Age as well.  I don't see that as subjective, considering the vast number of sex and porn sites on the net.  Less would be more for Dragon Age.  I'm a fan of shadows/states of undress, which is thankfully the approach that the DA team is taking this time around.  

[Omikuji]

Fade to black is what I would rather want.

 

Sex scenes in games are so awkward and floaty feeling because of the inability to have the characters interact in a way that isn't weightless feeling or that they're clipping through each other. I also don't personally enjoy the fact that the end 'reward' of a romance being sex.

 

Fade to black it can at least have the power of suggestion, which you can imagen your own version of the scene which tends to be way better then watching awkward mocaps.  

 

When I hit a sex scene in the DA games, I have done nothing but laugh because they where so silly. Then in a game like Witcher where they had all the hardest of core of sex, I was taken out of it because I couldn't believe how many ladies kept throwing themselves at the guy. And that the scenes felt tacked on because why not have some sex. 

[Gwydden]

I like the "no genitalia" rule, and I think it is the most tasteful solution.   I'd rather not see the details behind the actions, and I certainly don't need to see anyone's private parts in a video game.  As a pansexual, this goes for both men and women.

 

I also believe that while your parents (and mine) censored little growing up, it really depends upon the child themselves.  Parenting aside, kids are really their own person after about the age of 4 or so.  So just because we turned out "fine" doesn't mean that it's the best solution for every child.  

 

I also think "less is more" is the best for Dragon Age as well.  I don't see that as subjective, considering the vast number of sex and porn sites on the net.  Less would be more for Dragon Age.  I'm a fan of shadows/states of undress, which is thankfully the approach that the DA team is taking this time around.  

So... just like I said then? I don't want to see genitalia of any gender, and I most certainly don't need to. My comments on that, and on 'less is more', were on a general sense, and I don't remember ever stating I disagreed. I'm also a fan of the whole shadows/states of undress/camera angles way of approaching it.  A subtle, suggestive take is usually more effective and tasteful than an explicit one. So yes, I like the way they seem to be doing it this time, or at least how it's sounding so far.

 

I don't even disagree that children may react differently to a similar upbringing. But frankly, I don't think most parents can tell which way is best when their child still can barely talk. What I think is true, in my experience, is that children do not understand sex and don't really care for it, so the heavy emotional scarring some here believe would result from exposing them to a bared nipple seems rather exaggerated.\\

 

I wouldn't mind just not seeing them at all (including those implied by fade to black). They're not needed for a good romance arc and kinda give the wrong idea about what the 'final destination' of said arc is.

To be fair, in DA romances sex usually takes place either at the beginning or the middle of the relationship. ME on the other had is an entirely different beast.

[Grieving Natashina]

I wouldn't mind just not seeing them at all (including those implied by fade to black). They're not needed for a good romance arc and kinda give the wrong idea about what the 'final destination' of said arc is.

Fade to black can work quite well and has for years.  One classic and (I think) good example would be Tika and Cloud in Final Fantasy VII.  Right before you head into the Northern Crater, there is a very well done scene followed by a FTB.  The characters aren't even sitting that close to each other, but the dialogue makes it clear what happens.  It was confirmed by WoG that Tika and Cloud hooked up.  I thought it worked there, because their conversation was my favorite part. 

[Grieving Natashina]

So... just like I said then? I don't want to see genitalia of any gender, and I most certainly don't need to. My comments on that, and on 'less is more', were on a general sense, and I don't remember ever stating I disagreed. 

 

 

Er, this...

 

 

There's enough pornography. Less is more.

 

 

What is considered pornography and how much is too much are both entirely subjective things.

 

Are you agreeing or disagreeing here?  I honestly can't tell.

 

I don't even disagree that children may react differently to a similar upbringing. But frankly, I don't think most parents can tell which way is best when their child still can barely talk. What I think is true, in my experience, is that children do not understand sex and don't really care for it, so the heavy emotional scarring some here believe would result from exposing them to a bared nipple seems rather exaggerated.

 

 

 

 

I agree. I was watching the Super Bowl when the dreaded "costume fail" happened.  It's still funny to me that there was 9 guys in the room, and I was the only one that caught that.  I also rolled my eyes damn near out of my sockets when the whole country went ape over a pasty-covered nipple.  

 

We are starting to get off-topic though.  This isn't a game meant for kids, so we should probably leave that part of the debate alone.

[Grieving Natashina]

Huh..? Really? lol, I never knew that. No way.

 

Granted, when I played FF7... I was probably 9 or 10 years old. I guess I should get that on Steam and replay it sometime.

I'm not making this up. They'll be sitting outside of the airship, chatting something about "what if we don't see tomorrow."   The last time I played from start to finish was about 6 months ago.  That's one old school example I love to use as FTB done correctly.  It was more about the emotions leading up to the event and what tomorrow might bring versus any kissing or sex. Thankfully, they weren't implying with "And now we must bone."  I hate that too and I agree that seems overdone in games.  

[Gwydden]

Are you agreeing or disagreeing here?  I honestly can't tell.

What I was trying to say there is that some people would likely consider even the most tasteful or implicit scene pornographic. For example, I wouldn't describe Jacob's or Miranda's in ME2 that way, but I'm sure someone somewhere would, even if all the characters really did was take off their tops in a somewhat suggestive manner.

 

Essentially, that I think many people get way too worked up about nudity and sex.

[Grieving Natashina]

What I was trying to say there is that some people would likely consider even the most tasteful or implicit scene pornographic. For example, I wouldn't describe Jacob's or Miranda's in ME2 that way, but I'm sure someone somewhere would, even if all the characters really did was take off their tops in a somewhat suggestive manner.

 

Essentially, that I think many people get way too worked up about nudity and sex.

Fair enough, and I agree here.  

[naddaya]

Having naked character in a sex scene doesn't mean you have to see a macro shot of their private bits. Naked != pornography.

 

The love scenes in DAO were comical, and the music didn't help a bit . But an immediate fade to black seems rather dull and dry humping is ridiculous. Isabela's scene was the only interesting one in DA2.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Kids learn things very fast. It's not just static nude thing. Show them GoT and after two episodes they become perverts. Have you seen 11-14 years old who talk and act with sexual harassment style?

 

Smart censorship is good. End of line.

Maybe if they censored sexual acts instead of focusing on nipples??? and why are you showing them game of thrones??

[naddaya]

Maybe if they censored sexual acts instead of focusing on nipples??? and why are you showing them game of thrones??

 

I've seen pregnant chicks at 13-14 when I was in middle school. Kids get to see more random sex on tv, I wouldn't blame videogames. Besides, the Dragon Age series is rated M.

[Zveroferma]

@ Some of the posters  Ah, kids today.  Someday, you'll learn that you can be mature and adult without needing to see breasts and wangs everywhere.  There are plenty of other games with varying quality where you can see all the pixel-on-pixel action you want.  Some of them are AAA games, and I'm sure you could write to one of them asking for "hardcore sex and nudity."  That's fine for those companies, but let's keep that type of "maturity" out of Dragon Age.  

 

One day you'll appreciate the subtlies in romance in all sorts of media, including video games.  Porn is like alcohol: It's usually more fun when you are younger and it's "illicit."  Once you hit the legal age in your country, after the first year or so, it isn't as much fun for many folks anymore.  It's easy to get and no longer has the "forbidden fruit" aspect to it.  Porn is the same way. There are plenty of sites as an adult that I can go to, and plenty of (ick) games I could download that could give me all sorts of nudity in any fashion I could think of.  

 

So I think I speak for most of the legal adults when I say: We are not playing the Dragon Age games for "hardcore dirty full-frontal" sex.  We're playing it for the story.  Unless someone can give a valid story reason for showing hardcore sex, then it's apparent that some are just asking for titillation.  I can think of a few good story reasons for the level of violence in the games, but hardcore sex?  Wrong company, wrong game and not what they are going to do for Inquisition. 

Well, there is more than one way to be adult and to experience things.

You say that being adult means appreciation of subtleness. I say that appreciation (or preference) of subtleness has nothing to do with being adult. It can be personal preference or plain shyness or religious beliefs or many other things and it doesn't correlate with actual age or matureness. And it doesn't exclude the ability to appreciate the immediate visual information (or real life experience).

As for me, I am a very visual kind of person, it is really important for me to actually see and watch things rather than just imagine them (there are no problems or anything wrong with that, too). So, I've learnt to accept my need to get visual information of different kinds without being ashamed or feeling inadequate.

 

Nudity, porn and their availability elsewhere. You clearly do not get the idea that what some people here want, it is not generic porn and naked bodies per se. Thank you, everyone is perfectly aware of porn sites. There are plenty of ways to get porn without buying a videogame.

Why do people want more explicit scenes in this very game? Because of the storytelling, cutscenes and personal attachment to their alter egos, LIs and other game characters. They do not want some generic bodies or acts, they want to see their characters, this is part of the story. First of all, we get this nice story which is shown via cinematografic dialogues and cutscenes, battles and killings are accompanied with cutscenes, too (and there is no fading to red or some other subtle and "adult" thing). Then there is a possibility to romance someone, again with all those nice visuals. When it comes to consummating a relationship, suddenly "well, you are an adult, you know what they are doing, you can totally imagine everything". And it keeps happening from game to game. All kinds of deaths, bloody guts, rotten corpses and cut heads are OK to show and to see, apparently they cannot be simply imagined by oh so adult and mature people or hinted at. Showing some nice sex and pleasure (I do not mean showing full-screen genitals)? 

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Good argument.

[Sith Grey Warden]

I'd prefer #3, but #1 works fine too. What I'm really concerned about is timing. I severely disliked the way that all romances in DA2 followed the same schedule. For example, it shouldn't have taken 3 years (or possibly even 3 days) before Isabella's romance got to the sex. It made the romances seem a bit more shallow and artificial that they all followed the same timeline.

[Chashan]

I'd prefer #3, but #1 works fine too. What I'm really concerned about is timing. I severely disliked the way that all romances in DA2 followed the same schedule. For example, it shouldn't have taken 3 years (or possibly even 3 days) before Isabella's romance got to the sex. It made the romances seem a bit more shallow and artificial that they all followed the same timeline.

 

To be fair, DA2's fast-forwarding does leave a lot of off-screen time as to what further goes on, this included.

 

Key-problem with DA2's companions was dialogue, far as I am concerned. Sometimes it's pretty much just...there, more than anything else, with nary any depth to it.

[Lorien19]

What's wrong with Isabela's scene?

I agree,Isabela's scene was my favourite next to Fenri's...