607 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolfen09]

even if they were literally dead, its not hard for a blood mage to raise you from said dead

[KainD]

No, if you don't mean mentally. *Theon Greyjoy*

For all intents and purposes a broken person to me is dead, they are just a husk, just like the tranquil.

[KainD]

even if they were literally dead, its not hard for a blood mage to raise you from said dead

It wont be you, it will just be your flesh.

[renfrees]

For all intents and purposes a broken person to me is dead, they are just a husk, just like the tranquil.

There are not many jobs, that would require spirited slaves, arts mostly. Labors require hands and muscle.

 

And isn't it your Tevinter's philosophy, that slaves are not persons?

[KainD]

There are not many jobs, that would require spirited slaves, arts mostly. Labors require hands and muscle.

And isn't it your Tevinter's philosophy, that slaves are not persons?

My philosophy is that everybody knows their place in accordance with what they are capable of. A good slave is a happy slave, that has good living conditions, has things to lose and is satisfied with what they have.

[EmperorSahlertz]

How can my own personal definition be wrong?

 

.-. Did you ask for the "accepted" definition at all, if i recall correctly all you did was request clarification if people knew what a "rout" was.

It isn't about personal definitions and ideas. It is about language and the facilitation of communication. If you are going to use a commonly known word, and apply another meaning to it than what is accepted, then YOU are the one who will have to explain yourself, instead of everyone else just magically having to know what YOU think the word means, and accepting that.

 

As it turns out, your ideas of what a rout is were wrong, and didn't even apply to the situation you wanted to describe (both by the ACTUAL definition and by your own), so the topic got even further dilluted by your miscommunications.

 

The Qunari NEVER routed. Not by your definition, not by the actual definition.

[SerCambria358]

It isn't about personal definitions and ideas. It is about language and the facilitation of communication. If you are going to use a commonly known word, and apply another meaning to it than what is accepted, then YOU are the one who will have to explain yourself, instead of everyone else just magically having to know what YOU think the word means, and accepting that.

 

As it turns out, your ideas of what a rout is were wrong, and didn't even apply to the situation you wanted to describe (both by the ACTUAL definition and by your own), so the topic got even further dilluted by your miscommunications.

 

The Qunari NEVER routed. Not by your definition, not by the actual definition.

Apparently they were just trolling, they wasted my time as well, trust me

[Divine Justinia V]

Tywin for the Iron Throne

 

Spoiler

It's not a GoT spoiler, I promise. It's a Tywin gif.

[Lillian]

Spoiler

It's not a GoT spoiler, I promise. It's a Tywin gif.

[SerCambria358]

Spoiler

It's not a GoT spoiler, I promise. It's a Tywin gif.

Noooooo i will never unsee this 

[Master Warder Z_]

The Qunari NEVER routed. Not by your definition, not by the actual definition.

 

Err, Actually you would be wrong on that account.

 

Both the codex's and WOT plainly state they went into retreat.

 

._. They were routed, retreated and sued for peace.

[Master Warder Z_]

Apparently they were just trolling, they wasted my time as well, trust me

 

Or you know, it could just be personal musings on the Lore, given WOT plainly stated the Qunari were displaced, suffering logistical shortages, naval defeats and the loss of territory right up until the Felsimia Armada went and invaded Par Vollen, And then la poof.

 

More then a hundred and fifty years of war ends, they sue for peace.

 

._.

 

Just because i didn't take your baiting seriously, didn't mean i didn't know of what i speak.

[SerCambria358]

Or you know, it could just be personal musings on the Lore, given WOT plainly stated the Qunari were displaced, suffering logistical shortages, naval defeats and the loss of territory right up until the Felsimia Armada went and invaded Par Vollen, And then la poof.

 

More then a hundred and fifty years of war ends, they sue for peace.

 

._.

 

Just because i didn't take your baiting seriously, didn't mean i didn't know of what i speak.

They didnt sue for peace, they entrenched themselves into seheron and rivain where they couldnt be moved, once thedas was exhausted, they sued for peace

 

Edit: What bait? 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Err, Actually you would be wrong on that account.

 

Both the codex's and WOT plainly state they went into retreat.

 

._. They were routed, retreated and sued for peace.

Again, you do not use the term "rout" correctly....

[Master Warder Z_]

They didnt sue for peace, they entrenched themselves into seheron and rivain where they couldnt be moved, once thedas was exhausted, they sued for peace

 

Rivain was under siege for what the third time by the time they sued for peace?

 

And given the Raiders Bypassed Sehron that really didn't matter, they were striking at the Qunari Heartland. WOT stated that plainly, add in that Thedas was pushing hard enough to decimate the entire populations of settlements, i'd say they were effecting the Qunari. Add you have them losing by this point, In the Free Marchs, The Imperium, They even lost Estwatch, the vital logistical point.

 

So your interepation doesn't fit the series of events that led to the conclusion of the war.

 

They were reduced to operating on a single front in Thedas, in which the Chantry forces were clearly making headway, WOT and the codex admit that.

 

Thedas was broken and bankrupt, they took peace because they couldn't finish the war. But they were winning it.

[Master Warder Z_]

Again, you do not use the term "rout" correctly....

 

defeat and cause to retreat in disorder.

"in a matter of minutes the attackers were routed"

synonyms: put to flight, drive off, scatter; verb

past tense: routed; past participle: routed

 

.-. Seems like YOU aren't using it correctly.

 

My personal definition just gets a little more grandiose about it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So you put a SINGLE engagement's results and apply it to the entire theater? Even when the lore paitns a perfectly clear picture of that NOT being the case?

 

Your personal "definition" of a word is entirely irrelevant, since it applies only to you and your thoughts. If you want to have a actual discussion with anyone else, then you will have to conform to the ACTUAL meaning of words.

[SerCambria358]

Rivain was under siege for what the third time by the time they sued for peace?

 

And given the Raiders Bypassed Sehron that really didn't matter, they were striking at the Qunari Heartland. WOT stated that plainly, add in that Thedas was pushing hard enough to decimate the entire populations of settlements, i'd say they were effecting the Qunari. Add you have them losing by this point, In the Free Marchs, The Imperium, They even lost Estwatch, the vital logistical point.

 

So your interepation doesn't fit the series of events that led to the conclusion of the war.

 

They were reduced to operating on a single front in Thedas, in which the Chantry forces were clearly making headway, WOT and the codex admit that.

 

Thedas was broken and bankrupt, they took peace because they couldn't finish the war. But they were winning it.

"For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. The Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar: their last remaining stronghold left on the continent^[9], and all the while without even chipping the Qunari occupying force. For the sake of Kont-aar, the giants finally agreed to withdraw.^[10] The Exalted March ended in 7:84 Storm. A meeting between envoys of all the human lands (except for Tevinter) and the Qunari at Llomerryn results in the signing of the Llomerryn Accord and peace being declared.^[11] The Qunari agreed to end all hostilities with all nations under the accord and returned to Par Vollen which was annexed to them."

 

That is not a "rout" they ordered a retreat because they were spread thin, gathering in Rivain where they held off. There was no disorganization among the Qunari ranks, just reorganization of forces.

[Master Warder Z_]

"For the giants, it did not appear to be the damage to their armada or the loss of their soldiers, but the terrible toll upon the Rivaini population that prompted their retreat. The Third New Exalted March had all but massacred the people of Kont-aar: their last remaining stronghold left on the continent^[9], and all the while without even chipping the Qunari occupying force. For the sake of Kont-aar, the giants finally agreed to withdraw.^[10] The Exalted March ended in 7:84 Storm. A meeting between envoys of all the human lands (except for Tevinter) and the Qunari at Llomerryn results in the signing of the Llomerryn Accord and peace being declared.^[11] The Qunari agreed to end all hostilities with all nations under the accord and returned to Par Vollen which was annexed to them."

 

That is not a "rout" they ordered a retreat because they were spread thin, gathering in Rivain where they held off. There was no disorganization among the Qunari ranks, just reorganization of forces.

 

See that codex always annoys me now when it is mentioned, WOT described the finale of the Qunari Wars better.

 

Mass slave revolts and Magister counter attacks shoving them out of the Imperium, A massive defeat to their Navy by the hands of the Raiders prior mentioned, Orlais booting them out of Kirkwall and the exalted march bearing down on their final point of influence in Thedas. Not to mention erm, the invasions of Par Vollen

 

To me? This sounds like a crumbling theater, it sounds like a war being lost and it most of all? Sounds like the disorganization of a Military, Routed every known front besides Rivain, that was it. The final front, the last strong point and they were losing it. Also it says nothing about them "ordering" a retreat even in that codex. It said they agreed to a "withdrawal"

 

Like the writing wasn't on the wall by that point 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Invasions of Par Vollen are just what you think happened. The Lore sources don't mention it explicitly. The Raiders landing on Par Vollen strikes me as unlikely if the Qunari forces occupying Rivain were still holding strong. I would think they'd prioritize liberating their own territory before assaulting the Qunari HQ.

[SerCambria358]

See that codex always annoys me now when it is mentioned, WOT described the finale of the Qunari Wars better.

 

Mass slave revolts and Magister counter attacks shoving them out of the Imperium, A massive defeat to their Navy by the hands of the Raiders prior mentioned, Orlais booting them out of Kirkwall and the exalted march bearing down on their final point of influence in Thedas. Not to mention erm, the invasions of Par Vollen

 

To me? This sounds like a crumbling theater, it sounds like a war being lost and it most of all? Sounds like the disorganization of a Military, Routed every known front besides Rivain, that was it. The final front, the last strong point and they were losing it. Also it says nothing about them "ordering" a retreat even in that codex. It said they agreed to a "withdrawal"

 

Like the writing wasn't on the wall by that point 

They agreed to withdraw, thats an ordered retreat lol. You're trying to make these subtle details fit your point, you say it "sounds like" even though thats not whats being said. The qunari are one nation scattered across a continent, of course theyre going to withdraw from Free Marches and Tevinter to a central location (Rivain) After losses in both areas thats definitely the right strategic move.

 

Bottom line is they held there ground in Rivain and agreed to a treaty due to casualties among the civilians rather than their own forces. No where is it said that they were routed nor does anything hint to that, them retreating or withdrawing from a location is not "routing". You were wrong earlier and you're still wrong

[Aimi]

I think what this discussion illustrates is more that we really don't know that much about the qunari wars. There aren't very many sources on them, either in-universe or out-of-universe, and the sources that we have don't contain many specifics. To try to extrapolate the future of the DA setting from an already very limited data pool is probably unwise.

[Saints]

Spoiler

It's not a GoT spoiler, I promise. It's a Tywin gif.

You're pretty awesome

[Texhnolyze101]

I hope we get to destroy Minrathous.

 

I rather we get to destroy orlais instead because they offer nothing of any real worth to the DA setting.

[SerCambria358]

I rather we get to destroy orlais instead because they offer nothing of any real worth to the DA setting.

Really?