607 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

Why was the dwarf Javaris trying to get gaatlok when it isn't a superior product to dwarven explosives? 

 

Because it's not made from Lyrium, which makes it safer to handle, and isn't as expensive to create? He states the former quite clearly.

[renfrees]

Remember MotA's plot? If Celene wants the gaatlok, it must be a good stuff!

[SerCambria358]

Because it's not made from Lyrium, which makes it safer to handle, and isn't as expensive to create? He states the former quite clearly.

We dont know enough about gaatlok to make those assumptions

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Because it's not made from Lyrium, which makes it safer to handle, and isn't as expensive to create? He states the former quite clearly.

True.

 

But let me ask you this: Where in the lore does it say it is not more powerful?

 

 

Remember MotA's plot? If Celene wants the gaatlok, it must be a good stuff!

Agreed. Why go through all that instead of just buying some from the dwarves? 

[Steelcan]

That doesnt sound right to me, the amounts of darkspawn that would have died is ridiculous if we're assuming the only means to destroying a golem is with magic, not to mention, that is never said or hinted to in the lore. We cant make assumptions based off of your own hypothesis that has no supporting evidence. I dont see why a cannon ball fired from a substance more powerful than lyrium based explosives, cant destroy a golem. Honestly, you dont think gaatlok can effectively destroy a golem?

No I don't because as far as I am concerned Gaatlok is just gunpowder with a different name and gunpowder weapons of this rough time line wouldn't have been able to destroy solid steel constructions, much less ones imbued with Maker knows what kind of magic

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No I don't because as far as I am concerned Gaatlok is just gunpowder with a different name and gunpowder weapons of this rough time line wouldn't have been able to destroy solid steel constructions, much less ones imbued with Maker knows what kind of magic

Golems aren't solid steel. They are just shells filled with molten lyrium and a dwarf body. 

[The Baconer]

We have no idea what gaatlok is to make those assumptions

 

The first statement (that it's safer to handle) isn't even an assumption. Why would it be any more logical to conclude that it's more powerful with even less evidence existing for that?

 

True.

 

But let me ask you this: Where in the lore does it say it is not more powerful?

 

The only thing that exists on the record as far as its power is concerned is that it is not as powerful as magic (World of Thedas)

 

 

Agreed. Why go through all that instead of just buying some from the dwarves?

 

Why not? Lyrium is ****ing expensive. Contact with the dust (which is used to make the explosives) is potentially fatal on its own. These are things we are already 100% sure of.

[Steelcan]

Golems aren't solid steel. They are just shells filled with molten lyrium and a dwarf body. 

How many inches thick?

[SerCambria358]

No I don't because as far as I am concerned Gaatlok is just gunpowder with a different name and gunpowder weapons of this rough time line wouldn't have been able to destroy solid steel constructions, much less ones imbued with Maker knows what kind of magic

Again, you're just assuming its gunpowder with no evidence to support that claim. We dont know enough to just conclude that "it wouldnt be effective" plus assuming that it is just gunpowder, i think you're massively underestimating what a cannon can do in reality let alone one in a fantasy universe

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why not? Lyrium is ****ing expensive. Contact with the dust (which is used to make the explosives) is potentially fatal on its own. These are things we are already 100% sure of.

So her choices are either spend a lot of money or enrage the rest of Thedas by instigating war with the Qunari? If this stuff is equal, then she deserves to be off the throne because she is an idiot. 

 

 

How many inches thick?

It doesn't say. But considering the golem is perhaps at most 2.5-3 feet thick and the dwarf is about half that, plus the space needed for all the lyrium I'd say a few inches in the thickest parts. 

[Steelcan]

It doesn't say. But considering the golem is perhaps at most 2.5-3 feet thick and the dwarf is about half that, plus the space needed for all the lyrium I'd say a few inches in the thickest parts. 

hmmm diffiuclt to tell without a precise amount of liquid lyrium I suppose...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

hmmm diffiuclt to tell without a precise amount of liquid lyrium I suppose...

Yeah, they could need only a millimeter of liquid lyrium between the dwarf and the shell or several centimeters. 

[SerCambria358]

The first statement (that it's safer to handle) isn't even an assumption. Why would it be any more logical to conclude that it's more powerful with even less evidence existing for that?

Its an assumption because we know nothing about gaatlok beyond that its used in cannons and that its more powerful than lyrium (trusting the DA wiki which Laidlaw himself said was very accurate) so how can we assume its safer to handle than lyrium? Especially in the hands of someone who's never handled the substance before, theres literally no info about the ingredients to make these conclusions, legitimate

[The Baconer]

So her choices are either spend a lot of money or enrage the rest of Thedas by instigating war with the Qunari? If this stuff is equal, then she deserves to be off the throne because she is an idiot.

 

Most of the monarchs and military leaders in Thedas would probably jump at the prospect of acquiring the formula.

 

And the Qunari blatantly instigated a war when they tried to take Kirkwall by force, so **** em.

[SerCambria358]

Most of the monarchs and military leaders in Thedas would probably jump at the prospect of acquiring the formula.

 

And the Qunari blatantly instigated a war when they tried to take Kirkwall by force, so **** em.

So the Qunari tolerating years of attacks and being blamed for false flag incidents, finally deciding that Kirkwall is a hell hole when defending two elf criminals (who only killed a guard because he raped their sister), is considered a "blatant" instigation? Come on , you might not agree with their teachings but they put up with a lot of BS before finally saying "**** it". 

[The Baconer]

Its an assumption because we know nothing about gaatlok beyond that its used in cannons and that its more powerful than lyrium (trusting the DA wiki which Laidlaw himself said was very accurate) so how can we assume its safer to handle than lyrium? Especially in the hands of someone who's never handled the substance before, theres literally no info about the ingredients to make these conclusions, legitimate

 

And who said it was more powerful? Staff quote? Codex? Pen & Paper fluff? The wiki is very accurate because most of the information posted on it links to a direct source, while the sentence about the gaatlok doesn't.

 

If I pulled some random factoid out of my ass, and then made it sound at least half-informed before posting it, it would be no more or less legitimate.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And who said it was more powerful? Staff quote? Codex? Pen & Paper fluff? The wiki is very accurate because most of the information posted on it links to a direct source, while the sentence about the gaatlok doesn't.

 

If I pulled some random factoid out of my ass, and then made it sound at least half-informed before posting it, it would be no more or less legitimate.

So 90% of stuff on the wiki is inaccurate to your eyes then, since the underlined part is not true?

[SerCambria358]

And who said it was more powerful? Staff quote? Codex? Pen & Paper fluff? The wiki is very accurate because most of the information posted on it links to a direct source, while the sentence about the gaatlok doesn't.

 

If I pulled some random factoid out of my ass, and then made it sound at least half-informed before posting it, it would be no more or less legitimate.

Then we'd have to assume a significant amount of info on that site are just random factoids out of peoples asses then. I dont see why its so ridiculous to believe, neither do i see why it makes a difference, either way its a powerful substance that in my opinion could no doubt destroy a golem

[Steelcan]

All that stuff happened after the Investiture Controversy was over. Some of it happened over a hundred years later.

The Battle of Manzikert was four years before the Investiture Controversy

 

Don't tell me the Byzantine Emperors were in a position to be meddling in Italy and Germany after they suffered one of their greatest defeats, compounded by the Doukas betrayal

 

 

(sorry about the late reply, only just saw your response)

[The Baconer]

So the Qunari tolerating years of attacks and being blamed for false flag incidents, finally deciding that Kirkwall is a hell hole when defending two elf criminals (who only killed a guard because he raped their sister), is considered a "blatant" instigation? Come on , you might not agree with their teachings but they put up with a lot of BS before finally saying "**** it". 

 

Why should it not be interpreted as a blatant instigation? Do you think most people would be privy to what actually caused the hostile takeover? Even if they were, do you think they would even care?

 

So 90% of stuff on the wiki is inaccurate to your eyes then, since the underlined part is not true?

 

Most (probably less than 90%) of the wiki is made up of this, which would make you technically correct. But that is, after all, the best kind of correct.

[SerCambria358]

Why should it not be interpreted as a blatant instigation? Do you think most people would be privy to what actually caused the hostile takeover? Even if they were, do you think they would even care?

What does that have to do with you saying **** em?

[The Baconer]

What does that have to do with you saying **** em?

 

Who, the rest of Thedas, or the Qunari?

 

**** the rest of Thedas in the instance that they would actually be "enraged" at Orlais for discovering the formula and thus pissing the Qunari off. The Qunari don't even have a way to reach Orlais directly, so they should be delighted.

 

And **** the Qunari for going to war over it.

[Fizzie Panda]

Doesn't this look like Tevinter design, ya know with the dragons? And general darkness.

 

Spoiler

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Most (probably less than 90%) of the wiki is made up of this, which would make you technically correct. But that is, after all, the best kind of correct.

Indeed. I'll take technically correct. 

[Aimi]

The Battle of Manzikert was four years before the Investiture Controversy
 
Don't tell me the Byzantine Emperors were in a position to be meddling in Italy and Germany after they suffered one of their greatest defeats, compounded by the Doukas betrayal
 
 
(sorry about the late reply, only just saw your response)

The Byzantine Emperors were in a position to meddle in Italy after Manzikert, because they did meddle in Italy after Manzikert. Manouel I spent a great deal of blood and treasure in Calabria and Apulia.

While the controversy with the papacy itself didn't begin until the latter part of the century, there was plenty of internecine fighting in the HRE before that, and a fair amount of that had to do with similar structural problems to the ones that made the controversy such a problem for the later Emperors.