111 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

Many of the old statements about DR were the result of misunderstandings of the mechanics, and in fact many of the enemy damage values were empirically derived, which was problematic since the difficulty multiplier and cover penalties were already rolled together.

 

Being out of cover gives you a 40% damage taken penalty.  Once you understand that, the system basically makes perfect sense, and you will realize that most of the unusual mechanics like "Tech Armor DR being inefficient," "shields being inefficient," or whathaveyou are just a result of not taking that into account.

 

As such to be immune out of cover you need 140% rated DR.  If there is a cap, it is higher than that and as such irrelevant.

 

You only need 100% DR to be immune in cover.  This can be tested with a variety of configurations, especially in SP where you can stack TA and Fortification as well as the melee DR perk on Sentinel's fitness.

 

Cover is supposed to grant additional DR in the frontal cone that will decrease to 0 the longer you lean out of cover.  Cyonan did some tests on this in connection with the Typhoon.  The amount of the DR is listed in the difficulty handler of coalesced.

[Vanelsa]

Great defensive build, OP. As opposed to other players, I am very defensive minded and I love tanky builds for solos. With this Justicar build, though, I am not sure how well it'll work offensively and I feel that a solo is going to take really long. What are your ideas on that? I guess you play her more like a Soldier. I like to play her as a pure Adept, using the Reave-Biotic Sphere-Reave back-to-back explosions.

 

RealKobeBean - You can still stagger enemies and detonate Reaved enemies by deploying the bubble. The offensive bubble obviously works (I played her as such for the past year), but the defensive bubble approach is a viable alternative as well. 

 

Shampoohorn - With max defensive bubble and all the shield recharge gear, your shields will recharge at a faster interval than the Geth prime's cannons (provided he's at a certain distance from you). You can also tank two Geth Primes shooting at you at the same time with this approach. 

 

I tested the build with Particle Rifle, Typhoon, Saber, and other assault rifles, but their ramp-up or reload times limited my perceived DPS. 

 

OniGannon - Will try it later today against Collectors. The Geth are good because they are generally slow and rush you straight on. 

[Tokenusername]

There's no question that Reave still works on Geth, Turrets, and Atlases. I would have noticed if it wasn't doing anything. I can see the DoT working, and I've detonated Reave on those targets with no difficulty, and received Reave kills against those targets in the killfeed. I've also (as far as I can tell) received the DR normally in those situations.
 
Has there been a test on whether Reave works on those targets?

No one said that reave has no offensive affect on synthetics, only that they don't grant DR like when used on organics.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

 

No one said that reave has no offensive affect on synthetics, only that they don't grant DR like when used on organics.

 

I understand, but what I'm saying is that from all appearances, everything seems to work, offense and defense. I'm not sure why the DR was determined not to be working, since I seem to benefit from it when I use Reave. I'm wondering if this all stems from someone testing it, and if so, is there a link to that test?

 

If this information is only based off of the tooltip or the wiki, I'm actually inclined to assume that the DR works as expected against all targets.

 

It would be hard to test on console, so I think I'll hold off for now.

[Tokenusername]

I understand, but what I'm saying is that from all appearances, everything seems to work, offense and defense. I'm not sure why the DR was determined not to be working, since I seem to benefit from it when I use Reave. I'm wondering if this all stems from someone testing it, and if so, is there a link to that test?

If this information is only based off of the tooltip or the wiki, I'm actually inclined to assume that the DR works as expected against all targets.

It would be hard to test on console, so I think I'll hold off for now.

What makes you so sure there is DR when all the typical effects related to it are absent?

[NuclearTech76]

What makes you so sure there is DR is all the typical effects related to it are absent?

It should be in the coding if it is DR specific to organics being reaved.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

What makes you so sure there is DR is all the typical effects related to it are absent?

 

I appear to take less damage when I Reave a Prime. Isn't that the typical effect of Reave DR? 

[Tokenusername]

It should be in the coding if it is DR specific to organics being reaved.

As Jeremiah said he plays on console and does not have access to the code. He's also flat out said he hasn't seen anyone else that does have access to the code test it.

[Tokenusername]

I appear to take less damage when I Reave a Prime. Isn't that the typical effect of Reave DR? 

A feeling is no better than what you're criticizing the wiki for.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

As Jeremiah said he plays on console and does not have access to the code. He's also flat out said he hasn't seen anyone else that does have access to the code test it.

 

True, but the test may be out there, somewhere, buried in the dark scary places of BSN, long-forgotten.

[NuclearTech76]

A feeling is no better than what you're criticizing the wiki for.

IDK I mean wiki is a pretty weak "source". The "feeling" of veteran players is why a lot of stuff gets tested. It's not proven but I would trust that over some wiki sitings. JMHO. 

[Tokenusername]

IDK I mean wiki is a pretty weak "source". The "feeling" of veteran players is why a lot of stuff gets tested. It's not proven but I would trust that over some wiki sitings. JMHO.

A wiki is a community project. If the information is inaccurate It's because all those "veteran players" can't bother to take the time to correct it.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

A feeling is no better than what you're criticizing the wiki for.

 

I criticized the wiki because I saw a statement that was obviously erroneous in Reave's entry, and because its information is based on the SP version of the game, not the MP version.

 

How is an SP wiki entry in any way similar to me observing something about MP gameplay? I'm not sure that even makes sense.

[Tokenusername]

I criticized the wiki because I saw a statement that was obviously erroneous in Reave's entry, and because its information is based on the SP version of the game, not the MP version.
 
How is an SP wiki entry in any way similar to me observing something about MP gameplay? I'm not sure that even makes sense.

Saying that the wiki has unverified information it claims to be correct while doing the same.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Saying that the wiki has unverified information it claims to be correct while doing the same.

 

I don't believe I claimed to know the correct answer with any kind of certainty, at all.

 

 

I appear to take less damage when I Reave a Prime.

 

 

Does anyone have a link to where they tested DR for Reave not working on Geth?

 

I've never had that problem (at least, not that I've noticed) and I've never heard of the bug, before.

 

 

So... I made an obviously erroneous statement which I claimed was correct? Which one? Was it when I kept asking for a verified source, so I could be sure?

 

I never made a public statement of "This is how Reave DR works," not even in this thread. I am attempting to confirm how it works, so I can update my information. I don't see how that is "making a false unverified claim in a wiki," since this is a discussion, not a definitive claim regarding mechanics.

[capn233]

Most of the wiki is semi-accurate, although it is the most accurate for the initial release of the game and updates for balance changes and patch changes are inconsistent.  Also editing the articles isn't as easy as it may appear since they used to prevent actual changes unless several people posted in the talk section saying that a specific bit was wrong and that they had tested it.  I ran into this issue trying to correct various things over a year ago.

 

Anyway, I don't recall if anyone did a formal test of Reave DR against synthetics.  I do recall people making topics a long time ago about how the game was "ninja balanced" to add the DR functionality against them though.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

That explains some of what I read in the wiki earlier. It seems to be based off of the vanilla SP version of the game.

[capn233]

That explains some of what I read in the wiki earlier. It seems to be based off of the vanilla SP version of the game.

No it is partially based on MP, and in fact Reave in the wiki talks about Justicar Reave, which is different than normal reave slightly.
 
In any event, a cursory examination of Reave leads me to believe that the line about it not working against synthetics in the wiki was probably always wrong, and based on a presumption that it may have had mechanics similar to ME3 ME2.
 
If I interpret it correctly, the enemy type doesn't matter only the defense... so no DR if used against Shields, but otherwise enemy type doesn't matter.
 
There is a bit that seems to make a distinction about enemy type, but I think that is with regard to hit reaction or possibly the visual effects (as speculated above in the thread).  Anyway I could do a half assed test later, although someone with the mem tools could probably do one to test DR more definitively.
 
Anyway this is from SFXPowerCustomAction_Reave, which MP_Reave extends with only a little bit that I don't think is relevant:
 

Reave.OnApplied();
        if (int(Resistance) != int(0))
        {
            Manager = m_oPawn.GetModule(Class'SFXGame.SFXModule_GameEffectManager');
            Manager.RemoveEffectsByTypeAndCategory(Class'SFXGame.SFXGameEffect_DamageTakenBonus', Name);
            Manager.CreateAndApplyEffect(Class'SFXGame.SFXGameEffect_DamageTakenBonus', Name, EffectDuration.CurrentValue, 1, -DamageReduction.CurrentValue, m_oPawn.Controller);
        }

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

No it is partially based on MP, and in fact Reave in the wiki talks about Justicar Reave, which is different than normal reave slightly.
 
In any event, a cursory examination of Reave leads me to believe that the line about it not working against synthetics in the wiki was probably always wrong, and based on a presumption that it may have had mechanics similar to ME3.
 
 

 

That was what I figured was probably going on.

 

It's been so long since I played SP, could you really cast powers through a Guardian's shield when using Shephard?

 

It's not like he/she wasn't overpowered enough, with the ability to pause combat, or use bullet-time with Sniper Rifles! 

[Vanelsa]

OniGannon - Started a solo gold against Collectors on Giant. Two people joined mid-way, and one of them dropped. Ended up soloing many of the waves to extraction. 

 

The defensive bubble works well against Praetorians but not so much against Scions.

 

On Wave 2, I killed every enemy but the last Scion. I deployed the bubble, got into hard cover and reaved the Scion. Despite this, or some reason, my barrier/shield recharge was a lot slower after getting hit by Scion blasts compared with other attacks. I tested this by getting hit once and going back into cover. Unlike when getting hit by a Geth Prime, my barriers seemed to take several seconds to recharge instead of less than a second. It felt like it added a delay similar to a swarmer explosion.

 

Three Scion blasts would drain my barriers completely but did not appear to break shield gate. The shield recharge took the same amount of time.

 

Shield recharge after being hit by other enemies was very fast. If Scion attacks are somehow different, there's another reason to hate them!

 

Unlike Geth, Collectors have a lot of enemies that force you out of cover. Grenades, Swarmers, and Scion bomblets all make you have to move more. An offensive bubble is probably a better approach for Collectors. 

[capn233]

It's been so long since I played SP, could you really cast powers through a Guardian's shield when using Shephard?

 

Projectile powers hit the shield.  Actually I don't think it is much different than MP in that regard, it mainly has to do with what aspect you are engaging the Guardian from IIRC.

[cato potato]

I don't believe I claimed to know the correct answer with any kind of certainty, at all.

 

 

So... I made an obviously erroneous statement which I claimed was correct? Which one? Was it when I kept asking for a verified source, so I could be sure?

 

I never made a public statement of "This is how Reave DR works," not even in this thread. I am attempting to confirm how it works, so I can update my information. I don't see how that is "making a false unverified claim in a wiki," since this is a discussion, not a definitive claim regarding mechanics.

 

No no no, Jer. Don't you realise Token is never wrong? Obviously it seems like he's a pointlessly argumentative, smart-arse douchebag a lot of the time but he has assured me that he is in fact an infallible genius.

[Zjarcal]

I've always liked the concept of this build, sadly it's the kind of thing you can only properly enjoy if soloing, playing with a camping team, or a just plain terribad team that stays dead all the time.

 

Still, there is a great appeal in being practically invulnerable to enemy fire.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

 

Still, there is a great appeal in being practically invulnerable to enemy fire.

 

I love being able to give the finger to the Geth while I stand in the middle of them, and their gunfire bounces helplessly off of my shields. This is why I play the KroLord. A lot. 

[Miniditka77]

OniGannon - Started a solo gold against Collectors on Giant. Two people joined mid-way, and one of them dropped. Ended up soloing many of the waves to extraction. 

 

The defensive bubble works well against Praetorians but not so much against Scions.

 

On Wave 2, I killed every enemy but the last Scion. I deployed the bubble, got into hard cover and reaved the Scion. Despite this, or some reason, my barrier/shield recharge was a lot slower after getting hit by Scion blasts compared with other attacks. I tested this by getting hit once and going back into cover. Unlike when getting hit by a Geth Prime, my barriers seemed to take several seconds to recharge instead of less than a second. It felt like it added a delay similar to a swarmer explosion.

 

Three Scion blasts would drain my barriers completely but did not appear to break shield gate. The shield recharge took the same amount of time.

 

Shield recharge after being hit by other enemies was very fast. If Scion attacks are somehow different, there's another reason to hate them!

 

Unlike Geth, Collectors have a lot of enemies that force you out of cover. Grenades, Swarmers, and Scion bomblets all make you have to move more. An offensive bubble is probably a better approach for Collectors. 

 

Scion blasts have a small DOT, I believe.  It's usually not enough to seriously affect your health, but your shields can't recharge when you're still taking damage.