981 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Now that txgoldrush has gone to bed, and has gone away for another month.... The problem with the series is that it has a terrible plot. The enemy is not compelling. It's not compelling because it cannot be defeated. Many have tried, all have failed. Suddenly when the Reapers do invade we're given this magical device called the Crucible with which to defeat them. If this device was so damned important, why wasn't it shown with the technology we receieved when we discovered the Prothean Beacons? Why wasn't a warning about the Reapers given with the Prothean Archives? In fact why leave these treasure troves of technological archives for the next cycle if you knew you weren't going to be wiped out by the Reapers? How stupid of the Protheans not to give us the warning about the Reapers centuries earlier, and the plans for the Crucible centuries earlier so that we'd be the ones with the scene "The fought a terrible war so that we wouldn't have to." 

 

"Hey you guys, in the new cycle. These are the Reapers.They wiped us out. 50,000 years before us, they wiped out the Innusannon. And they're going to wipe out you, so here's the deal. When the reapers invaded we started building this device called a Crucible. It attaches to the Citadel. Now we think it would be a good idea if you built it now and attached it to the Citadel and fired it. There's a master control panel for the Citadel in the Tower. When you get the Crucible attached, just before you fire it, open the relay. Then fire the Crucible. Oh, and the Reapers built the Citadel and the Mass Relays, just thought you'd want to know." 

 

But that didn't happen. We didn't find out about the Crucible until the Reapers were ransacking and reaping the galaxy. How stupid was that? This tells me that the Crucible was an afterthought of the writers because they made the enemy so overpowered that they couldn't figure out any other way of defeating them. So they gave us this MacGuffin, and a DEM, or pseudo-DEM or whateverthehellitwaswhoneedsdetails to tell us that all we knew and understood about the MEU and the Reapers was wrong even though Harbinger and Sovereign had told us other things before, but hinted at this stuff with a big information dump... and you could argue with it, not that it would make a damned bit of difference. And the endings it offers you are from your perspective as Shepard are virtually all the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen: you die, the relays explode, and the Normandy crashes. The End. If you played multiplayer you could live in one of the endings.

 

Oh and now there's a fancy epilogue on it with a bunch of slides with a bunch of fancy talk explaining the meaning behind the colors + an ending where you get to stand up to the irresistible force and get smacked down - make that one last act of defiance. Don't get me going on the ridiculous pick up scene.

 

What we cared about was the characters, and we got nothing about them.

[KaiserShep]

Imagine if a copy of Vigil was installed right on the Citadel.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Yet the game gives them a clue that completely destroys their idea.

 

Strange, I thought they had an endless slide of clues confirming their ideal. They turn everything into 'proof' that they're correct. They reject all reason and any argument to the contrary. They are absolutely certain that they're right.

 

You do the same. Exact. Thing. Enough said. I'm going to treat your theories like I do with IT'ers, with even more criticism since you're actively a belittling and condescending poster. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Because the IT crowd doesn't see the clues against them.

 

I go by what the game gives me, nothing more but nothing less as well.

 

I go by what the game gives me too. Don't ever assume or tell me that I don't. Your way is not the only way. And what I see is crap.

[Kel Riever]

I think txgoldrush has invoked the spirit of Auld Wulf.

 

This is like a seance! 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I think txgoldrush has invoked the spirit of Auld Wulf.

 

This is like a seance! 

 

Not enough mouthbreathers and genocide fetishists.

[Mcfly616]

 
What we cared about was the characters, and we got nothing about them.

what 'you' cared about....



Take a little ownership and try not speaking for everybody.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

what 'you' cared about....



Take a little ownership and try not speaking for everybody.

 

That goes double for you.

[KaiserShep]

what 'you' cared about....



Take a little ownership and try not speaking for everybody.

 

Julia does have a point though. Character focus is a huge part of the Mass Effect series, and indeed BioWare's games in general, and the games bank on the players' attachments to the cast of companions that follow the PC, which is why we have all this romance content, emotional dialogue and farewells, and the sort. It's very obvious that the Citadel DLC was made primarily to give us more companion content. Just about everything focuses on Shepard's friendship, from the all-hands-on-deck mission in the archives, to each individual meetup in the apartment and Sunset Strip. Even if your own personal attachment to the characters is negligible, there's no denying that their content is geared toward that end.

[Mcfly616]

That goes double for you.

That goes double for you.

Lol really? Maybe you should explain that....



Or simply quote anything I've said in which I've labeled my opinion as that of the 'We' instead of 'I'....



Go ahead...I'll wait.

[Mcfly616]

Julia does have a point though. Character focus is a huge part of the Mass Effect series, and indeed BioWare's games in general, and the games bank on the players' attachments to the cast of companions that follow the PC, which is why we have all this romance content, emotional dialogue and farewells, and of course, the fanservice-y Citadel DLC  that practically puts it up in bright lights.

no she doesn't. I never said the characters weren't a big part of the experience. However, thats not what she said, nor what she was implying.

[KaiserShep]

I think txgoldrush has invoked the spirit of Auld Wulf.

 

This is like a seance! 

 

That's unpossible. We have not yet been synthesized.

[CronoDragoon]

2) Star-Child didn't want to be discovered.

 

Both in-game dialogue and codex entries note that the Citadel was meant to be the perfect trap. Easily accessible and livable enough to be the center of a galactic community, but with only the keepers fully understanding how it's detailed insides. That was part of the Reaper trap and why they were so efficient at wiping out civilizations before they knew what had happened.

 

In fact, while the protheans (a civilization far more advanced than the current cycle) eventually discovered the reaper cycles, they were also just as oblivious to the true purpose of the Citadel and were massacred for it. The only reason that this cycle even got a warning was because the scientists sent out a coded message through the prothean beacons, but it was a message that could not be understood without a cypher. Furthermore, that message was only meant to be a warning about the Citadel itself rather than the Star-Child. Even Chorban's research was merely further confirmation of the reaper cycle and there was no mention or hint of Star-Child in his email.

 

My point is that these tidbits of information along with the Catalyst's own admission that Shepard is the first organic to ever encounter him since the cycles began clearly shows that the Star-Child was in no danger of being discovered. Even if he was, by the time he activated the Dark Relay by himself, the reapers would pour in, destroy the center of government and the rest of the galaxy would be wiped out by the reapers while the silent puppeteer plays Galaga. The galaxy becomes empty, the holo-brat goes to take a nap and the keepers clean up the Citadel for the next cycle.

 

Before I respond to this I just want to make clear that I don't think this theory was the writers' intent. I don't think they thought any of this through. But explanations like that are boring, and we're here to discuss, right? Since this seems like the most plausible in-game explanation, I'll attempt to support it.

 

I think it's mistaken to point to the fact that the Catalyst has been in no danger of being discovered thus far as evidence that opening the relay himself wouldn't introduce the possibility. Why? Because the Catalyst hasn't opened the relay himself yet. It doesn't really tell us much about hypothetical danger. It's equivalent to dismissing the possibility of a stove burning your hand by pointing out that you thus far haven't put your hand on the stove and been burned.

 

I bolded the above because it does tell us something about what happened to those who did open the relay in the past: the Keepers. We are playing a series in which the last cycle 1) realized the Keepers' role in everything and 2) sabotaged the Keepers' ability to open the relay. What happens when the Catalyst opens the relay himself, and any information gleaned from this event is either 1) utilized by the current cycle, as the Protheans did, and/or 2) passed on to the next cycle to further damage the harvest?

 

Meanwhile the Catalyst has another option, which is to preserve the illusion that the Reapers are in control of everything. All he needs to do for this is lose one Reaper and two years. Two years is nothing for him, as is one Reaper. It minimized risk while sacrificing essentially nothing.

 

There are of course questions this brings up. If the Catalyst was so intent to focus attention away from himself, why would be build the dark space relay on the Citadel at all where he lives? If he was so intent on anonymity, why would he risk ME1's events at all? As soon as the signal didn't work he should have just started the Reapers towards the galaxy and not drawn attention to the Citadel. Of course, if we go by Psychevore's theory that no indoctrination exists by the Catalyst onto the Reapers - just the original programming - then it makes more sense that the Catalyst wouldn't be able to flex his plans very well.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Because the IT crowd doesn't see the clues against them.

 

I go by what the game gives me, nothing more but nothing less as well.

 

Which is exactly what the IT crowd says.

 

Who am I to believe? Your statements about how no one else gets it or there's? Since you can't do anything except be snide I'm inclined to go with IT; since this basically seems to be some screaming contest and they can wail louder because there's more of them.

 

You value your own opinion much higher than others, then act condescending when others don't agree with you. That doesn't make you look intelligent, rational, or observant; it makes you look vain. So, you can lay down what you think is your reasoned argument about why the ending works or you can continue to inflate that head of yours, just don't do it around here because the space is crowded enough as is.

 

You're like.. an inverted version of a staunch IT'er with a David-complex

 

the BSN: a gift that never stops giving

 

Oh my, have David and this guy [tx] ever butted heads? Can the universe survive such a maelstrom of ego? I think I would pay to see that.

[SwobyJ]

0_0

 

*hugs Catalyst*

[von uber]

Blimey, I'm not that smart.

Can I get a refund on my masters do you think on his say so?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Blimey, I'm not that smart.

Can I get a refund on my masters do you think on his say so?

 

What, they didn't teach you about paying attention and gettingitology?

 

You should definitely get a refund and sue them for negligence, because they spent time teaching you useless crap that doesn't make you smart like engineering.

[von uber]

Well I did a masters in civil engineering, and got chartered too. Clearly was a waste of money as I am a stupid

[txgoldrush]

Now that txgoldrush has gone to bed, and has gone away for another month.... The problem with the series is that it has a terrible plot. The enemy is not compelling. It's not compelling because it cannot be defeated. Many have tried, all have failed. Suddenly when the Reapers do invade we're given this magical device called the Crucible with which to defeat them. If this device was so damned important, why wasn't it shown with the technology we receieved when we discovered the Prothean Beacons? Why wasn't a warning about the Reapers given with the Prothean Archives? In fact why leave these treasure troves of technological archives for the next cycle if you knew you weren't going to be wiped out by the Reapers? How stupid of the Protheans not to give us the warning about the Reapers centuries earlier, and the plans for the Crucible centuries earlier so that we'd be the ones with the scene "The fought a terrible war so that we wouldn't have to." 

 

"Hey you guys, in the new cycle. These are the Reapers.They wiped us out. 50,000 years before us, they wiped out the Innusannon. And they're going to wipe out you, so here's the deal. When the reapers invaded we started building this device called a Crucible. It attaches to the Citadel. Now we think it would be a good idea if you built it now and attached it to the Citadel and fired it. There's a master control panel for the Citadel in the Tower. When you get the Crucible attached, just before you fire it, open the relay. Then fire the Crucible. Oh, and the Reapers built the Citadel and the Mass Relays, just thought you'd want to know." 

 

But that didn't happen. We didn't find out about the Crucible until the Reapers were ransacking and reaping the galaxy. How stupid was that? This tells me that the Crucible was an afterthought of the writers because they made the enemy so overpowered that they couldn't figure out any other way of defeating them. So they gave us this MacGuffin, and a DEM, or pseudo-DEM or whateverthehellitwaswhoneedsdetails to tell us that all we knew and understood about the MEU and the Reapers was wrong even though Harbinger and Sovereign had told us other things before, but hinted at this stuff with a big information dump... and you could argue with it, not that it would make a damned bit of difference. And the endings it offers you are from your perspective as Shepard are virtually all the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen: you die, the relays explode, and the Normandy crashes. The End. If you played multiplayer you could live in one of the endings.

 

Oh and now there's a fancy epilogue on it with a bunch of slides with a bunch of fancy talk explaining the meaning behind the colors + an ending where you get to stand up to the irresistible force and get smacked down - make that one last act of defiance. Don't get me going on the ridiculous pick up scene.

 

What we cared about was the characters, and we got nothing about them.

Wow, you missed the whole point of the Protheans trying to protect the knowledge until the next cycle is ready so it does not fall into Reaper hands. That's why they kept it hidden, and thats why Vendetta was reluctant to reveal what the Catalyst is. So in a way the narrative addresses this.

 

Nevermind the Crucible was foreshadowed in LoTSB as the "Prothean data they haven't used", listen to Liara post mission again. The Crucible plot came about because Liara used her resources as the Broker to find it. It doesn't just come out of the blue.

[txgoldrush]

Which is exactly what the IT crowd says.

 

Who am I to believe? Your statements about how no one else gets it or there's? Since you can't do anything except be snide I'm inclined to go with IT; since this basically seems to be some screaming contest and they can wail louder because there's more of them.

 

You value your own opinion much higher than others, then act condescending when others don't agree with you. That doesn't make you look intelligent, rational, or observant; it makes you look vain. So, you can lay down what you think is your reasoned argument about why the ending works or you can continue to inflate that head of yours, just don't do it around here because the space is crowded enough as is.

 

 

Oh my, have David and this guy [tx] ever butted heads? Can the universe survive such a maelstrom of ego? I think I would pay to see that.

 

I am condescending because not only are they condescending, they poorly back up their opinions with falsehoods and incorrect notions, while ignoring the narrative.

 

Not all opinions are created equal. Opinions backed by incorrect facts and falsehoods belong in the trash.

[TheTurtle]

I thought the ending for ME3 wasn't written until they actually started working on ME3. The dark energy plot was their main plan was it not?

[txgoldrush]

I thought the ending for ME3 wasn't written until they actually started working on ME3. The dark energy plot was their main plan was it not?

No it wasn't....it was one of the ideas they scrapped, and it was a good decision.

[TheTurtle]

No it wasn't....it was one of the ideas they scrapped, and it was a good decision.

But the other part of my post is true correct. And I know that dark energy was scrapped, but it wasn't until after the release of ME2 which is exemplified by the hints to it in Tali's loyalty mission.

[Kel Riever]

Txgoldrush, lol! Auld Wulf it IS you!

[von uber]

It seems to me that they reached Rannoch and started to run out of time. Thessia to Pritority Earth feels like a real rush, with PE being the low point.

Hateful, hateful level.