I am condescending because not only are they condescending, they poorly back up their opinions with falsehoods and incorrect notions, while ignoring the narrative.
Not all opinions are created equal. Opinions backed by incorrect facts and falsehoods belong in the trash.
Coming out swinging and insulting isn't better. You want to discuss, then fine discuss. But don't pretend that your attitude is some how justified.
Before I respond to this I just want to make clear that I don't think this theory was the writers' intent. I don't think they thought any of this through. But explanations like that are boring, and we're here to discuss, right? Since this seems like the most plausible in-game explanation, I'll attempt to support it.
I think it's mistaken to point to the fact that the Catalyst has been in no danger of being discovered thus far as evidence that opening the relay himself wouldn't introduce the possibility. Why? Because the Catalyst hasn't opened the relay himself yet. It doesn't really tell us much about hypothetical danger. It's equivalent to dismissing the possibility of a stove burning your hand by pointing out that you thus far haven't put your hand on the stove and been burned.
I bolded the above because it does tell us something about what happened to those who did open the relay in the past: the Keepers. We are playing a series in which the last cycle 1) realized the Keepers' role in everything and 2) sabotaged the Keepers' ability to open the relay. What happens when the Catalyst opens the relay himself, and any information gleaned from this event is either 1) utilized by the current cycle, as the Protheans did, and/or 2) passed on to the next cycle to further damage the harvest?
Meanwhile the Catalyst has another option, which is to preserve the illusion that the Reapers are in control of everything. All he needs to do for this is lose one Reaper and two years. Two years is nothing for him, as is one Reaper. It minimized risk while sacrificing essentially nothing.
There are of course questions this brings up. If the Catalyst was so intent to focus attention away from himself, why would be build the dark space relay on the Citadel at all where he lives? If he was so intent on anonymity, why would he risk ME1's events at all? As soon as the signal didn't work he should have just started the Reapers towards the galaxy and not drawn attention to the Citadel. Of course, if we go by Psychevore's theory that no indoctrination exists by the Catalyst onto the Reapers - just the original programming - then it makes more sense that the Catalyst wouldn't be able to flex his plans very well.
You're right, the Star-Child wanting to keep himself a secret is a plausible explanation. I'd actually be willing to go with it, if not for another thought.
Remember, the only reason that the secret about the keepers was discovered by the protheans was because a group of scientists hid in cryo-stasis and then analyzed the situation when they woke up. So let's say that they went to the citadel and sabotaged the keeper and then eventually starved to death (without ever meeting Star-Child because again, Shepard is the first organic to ever encounter him).
What would Star-Child risk by undoing the sabotage when there's no soul around who could detect him?
Also considering that every cycle never fully studied the Citadel, how would anyone know if Star-Child was actually doing anything? How do we know that they wouldn't assume that it was the keepers who did it? After billions of years of practice, I'm certain that Star-Child would be able to nat. 20 on a stealth check with his eyes closed.
Furthermore, considering how absolutely complete that each citadel arrival massacre has been in every cycle, how would information about the Star-Child pass to the next cycle? The Citadel is always wiped clean of evidence of reaper involvement after the reapers complete their cycle of extinction. Even the keeper discovery could only had been made after years of research and only after the reapers were safely gone. It also helped that the scientists had completed a prototype one-way mass relay that directly leads to the Citadel so that they could do something with their discovery.
And if we go with the thought that Star-Child couldn't open the relay himself or undo the sabotage (a giant stretch all things considered) why wouldn't he just order Harbinger and the reapers to start taking the long way to the galaxy ahead of time?
Why didn't the Star-Child have the keepers disable the other half of the Conduit after the scientists used it and starved to death? Why not cut off it's power himself? The Star-Child did design and create the entire mass relay network, would a miniature relay be beyond it's understanding to shut off?
Granted, these are all very nitpicky questions. Though I'd point out that this is a nitpicky detailed genre where details and explanations on how things work matter. So when you have a concept that doesn't make sense where even plausible self-thought explanations only lead to more questions and more questions within those questions, there's a problem.
I am condescending because not only are they condescending, they poorly back up their opinions with falsehoods and incorrect notions, while ignoring the narrative.
Not all opinions are created equal. Opinions backed by incorrect facts and falsehoods belong in the trash.
That's no excuse to be condescending: 'Someone else is being mean, so I'm going to be mean too!"
Otherwise, this is your claims in a nutshell. You're the exact same as all of them. Everything that you're saying that they do is reflected onto you as well.
Txgoldrush, lol! Auld Wulf it IS you!
Is it really him. Oh man now all we need is BirdsallSa to come back and it'll be like 2012 and early 2013 all over again.
Tx and Auldie are two different people. Hate to break it to you guys.
Also, Birdie was a troll account made by a poster on here, can't remember which. He made himself out to be a parody of auld wulf and other, more... eccentric posters (Seival, David, etc.)
Tx and Auldie are two different people. Hate to break it to you guys.
Also, Birdie was a troll account made by a poster on here, can't remember which. He made himself out to be a parody of auld wulf and other, more... eccentric posters (Seival, David, etc.)
You're right, the Star-Child wanting to keep himself a secret is a plausible explanation. I'd actually be willing to go with it, if not for another thought.
Remember, the only reason that the secret about the keepers was discovered by the protheans was because a group of scientists hid in cryo-stasis and then analyzed the situation when they woke up. So let's say that they went to the citadel and sabotaged the keeper and then eventually starved to death (without ever meeting Star-Child because again, Shepard is the first organic to ever encounter him).
What would Star-Child risk by undoing the sabotage when there's no soul around who could detect him?
Also considering that every cycle never fully studied the Citadel, how would anyone know if Star-Child was actually doing anything? How do we know that they wouldn't assume that it was the keepers who did it? After billions of years of practice, I'm certain that Star-Child would be able to nat. 20 on a stealth check with his eyes closed.
Furthermore, considering how absolutely complete that each citadel arrival massacre has been in every cycle, how would information about the Star-Child pass to the next cycle? The Citadel is always wiped clean of evidence of reaper involvement after the reapers complete their cycle of extinction. Even the keeper discovery could only had been made after years of research and only after the reapers were safely gone. It also helped that the scientists had completed a prototype one-way mass relay that directly leads to the Citadel so that they could do something with their discovery.
And if we go with the thought that Star-Child couldn't open the relay himself or undo the sabotage (a giant stretch all things considered) why wouldn't he just order Harbinger and the reapers to start taking the long way to the galaxy ahead of time?
Why didn't the Star-Child have the keepers disable the other half of the Conduit after the scientists used it and starved to death? Why not cut off it's power himself? The Star-Child did design and create the entire mass relay network, would a miniature relay be beyond it's understanding to shut off?
Granted, these are all very nitpicky questions. Though I'd point out that this is a nitpicky detailed genre where details and explanations on how things work matter. So when you have a concept that doesn't make sense where even plausible self-thought explanations only lead to more questions and more questions within those questions, there's a problem.
Why? Because the Starchild did not exist until Mass Effect 3 either as a concept or otherwise. Did the Reapers derp and fail to connect their almighty god to the main system to let them into the galaxy? Wow. The keepers could have done that easily. They can move walls, connect power and make all sorts of repairs on the Citadel. They wear these packs on their backs I assume is for communication with each other or some maintenance system that's about a billion years old. And yet they allow each cycle to build and modify the interior of the Citadel to suit their needs. Fascinating! If the Starchild AI existed why did it never think of having itself connected so that it could open the mass relay when it received the signal from Sovereign?
Sovereign signalled the keepers. Only the keepers can open the mass relay, and that's why Sovereign had to do it manually. Starbrat couldn't do it himself because Drew K didn't write Starbrat's existence. Starbrat wasn't in the plans.
Now onto the Reapers letting the knowledge pass on so that civilizations develop along the paths they desire. The archives. They still allowed each civilization to leave archives of technology. Yet buried within these archives was information about the Crucible. We don't find out until the EC that they knew about the plans and thought they were destroyed several cycles ago. Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized. The plans were hidden in plain sight. So if they knew where these archives were located and allowed them to exist, how did they overlook the plans for the Crucible that were in them? Hmmm.... Could it be that they weren't there until *drumroll* Mac Walters decided to put them there in ME3? I think that's a very good possibility.
But if it's foreshadowed that there is additional Prothean technology "out there" in a general sense in Lair of the Shadow Broker, one can hand wave this possibly being found in a different archive... like on Fehl Prime for example since it's in the codex that the Prothean artifact there had never been studied. But Mars? We'd been there for 30 years, and had hit the Mother Lode. There were three functioning Prothean Cruisers buried in addition to the Archive. Why don't we have particle beam weapons like Javik's? Fascinating... Oh those were another afterthought in ME3 just to make Javik different and make our cycle seem primitive.
Why Mars and not Fehl Prime? Easy. Rule of Cool and time constraints. You have Mars. You can copy the landscape from the first Total Recall movie and drop it into the game. Fehl Prime? What does a Fehl Prime look like? The colony had been abducted by the Collectors in 2183. No one ever returned there to study the Prothean stuff. Your graphics department would have to draw the exterior of the place from scratch. And people might be more invested in Mars than in Fehl Prime.
There are things that just don't add up.
You're suggesting that since the Catalyst wasn't in the works until pre-ME3, and since another archive was found beneath the Mars archives after humans had been there for 30 years....means that it 'doesn't add up'. And yet, you haven't explained 'why' it doesn't add up.
If the ME1 scenario makes sense, with Sovereign, the Keeper signal etc etc...and the Catalyst is literally in control of the Reapers (i.e. Sovereign)....then it still makes sense.
You think finding another archive is weird? You ever hear of the Valley of the Kings? You know they're still finding new chambers nearly a hundred years after its discovery...
Find another archive on Mars isnt far fetched at all. The timing is a bit of a stretch, for sure.
I just find it a bit odd that it's on Mars, when there was a perfectly never studied one on Fehl Prime they could have used for this. Why had no one ever studied that one? Ever? It got overlooked by the writers, obviously.
Didn't they write Mass Effect one game at a time? I recall that being a major criticism that people had with the game.
Which would actually explain a lot, if not most of the fails in the plot. The rest are due to rushed deadlines and of course "art".
I edited my last post that fits fine as a response to this post. Don't want to double post. Sorry.I just find it a bit odd that it's on Mars, when there was a perfectly never studied one on Fehl Prime they could have used for this. Why had no one ever studied that one? Ever? It got overlooked by the writers, obviously.
yeah.....there's definitely inconsistencies. Particularly in ME2 and moving forward.Didn't they write Mass Effect one game at a time? I recall that being a major criticism that people had with the game.
yeah.....there's definitely inconsistencies. Particularly in ME2 and moving forward.
Because a trilogy is written one installment at a time, doesn't mean it doesn't "add up". However, if it's written all at once, it doesn't help it's cohesiveness. (cohesion? Idk...**** it lol)
I really hope the next installment is a self contained story. No sequels. No trilogy. It allows for more creative freedom and narrative branching. Choices will carry more weight. Taken as a standalone game, ME2 is one of the best games I've ever played. Taking it for what it is, the middle installment of a trilogy....it's a disappointment and the biggest detriment to the narrative of the Shepard Saga.
Why are you here?
You are not Saren.
lol
Why are you here?
You are not Saren.
lol
I don't know how many times I have to say this.....but I'm well aware of when the idea of the Catalyst was implemented into the trilogy. You don't need to keep repeating it. Nobody here has ever denied that the Catalyst wasn't written on paper until the final game was in development. Not one single person here has said otherwise....so what exactly is your point again?When talking about writing a series most writers will tell you to have your ending planned. That is something that the creators of Mass Effect failed to do. This can be seen by the various ending ideas that were being tossed around post ME1 and mid ME2. It's because of this I don't think the catalyst was the writers idea until pre-ME3.
Another thing writers will tell you is that you have to know your own lore. It seems as if the writers in ME3 forgot the entire ME1 plot when writing the endings. The contradictions and inconsistencies make it even harder to believe that the catalyst was even a thought in ME1. I'm sorry, but from a meta perspective the catalyst doesn't seem like it existed at all pre-ME3.
I just find it a bit odd that it's on Mars, when there was a perfectly never studied one on Fehl Prime they could have used for this. Why had no one ever studied that one? Ever? It got overlooked by the writers, obviously.
When talking about writing a series most writers will tell you to have your ending planned.
There are plenty of writers who don't do it that way, of course.
True. And I think they're being really stupid when they do that. I'm not a fan of writers who make crap up as they go along; You end up getting things like the Mass Effect 3 ending, or worse.
I don't know how many times I have to say this.....but I'm well aware of when the idea of the Catalyst was implemented into the trilogy. You don't need to keep repeating it. Nobody here has ever refuted that the Catalyst was written on paper until the final game was in development. Not one single person here has said otherwise....so what exactly is your point again?
And please list the contradictions and inconsistencies you speak of....
Starting with how "they forgot the entire ME1 plot"
True. And I think they're being really stupid when they do that. I'm not a fan of writers who make crap up as they go along; You end up getting things like the Mass Effect 3 ending, or worse.
On the other hand, it gives them a bit more flexibility to see what's working and what's not with the story. That's a bit harder when you're working back from an ending. Of course if those writers tried to plot out their story from the start, it would probably not be all that great anyway, since it would be like a painter trying to use a vastly different style.
There are plenty of writers who don't do it that way, of course.
I guess it depends on the writers. Breaking Bad didn't have anything planned out but to make the plot engaging they sifted through the past story, building off of things from previous episodes and carefully wrote things so they meshed together. And the resulting product was pretty good.
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