981 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

I concur.

 

The simplest conclusion is that the Catalyst physically can't activate the relay. We already know that prothean scientists committed unspecified acts of sabotage on the Citadel, but that's it. There's no con to retcon about what happened there.

 

I guess it's the most plausible reason, or at least the one that requires the least amount of speculation and hoop jumping.

 

I still wish BioWare releases some sort of Last Days DLC which highlighted the fall of the Protheans, ranging from their initial reaction and experiences to the Reapers pouring in through the Citadel Relay... to their final act of sabotaging the Keepers. Most of all it could fix a lot of those little lingering problems that remain.

[von uber]

It may be the simplest thing but it is also really stupid. If the citadel is the home where it lives and designed, not being able to interact with it and relying on external agents to do so is rather short sighted and stupid.

[AlanC9]

It may be the simplest thing but it is also really stupid. If the citadel is the home where it lives and designed, not being able to interact with it and relying on external agents to do so is rather short sighted and stupid.

 

Huh? Like I said, it was sabotaged.I'm not talking about a design flaw.

 

Why couldn't the keepers repair the damage? For the same reason they didn't work in ME1. It's too late to be bothered by that now if you've swallowed it for this long.

[Ithurael]

Huh? Like I said, it was sabotaged.I'm not talking about a design flaw.

IIRC Vigil stated that the sabotage was only to stop the keepers receiving the signal from sovy - that's it.

 

You can headcanon that the sabotage did more than that but that is just headcanon...

 

Post sabotage the keepers respond only to the citadel. And then come ME3 the Starbrat says it IS the citadel...

 

so yeah...

[von uber]

It's too late to be bothered by that now if you've swallowed it for this long.

What, about 5 months

[AlanC9]

IIRC Vigil stated that the sabotage was only to stop the keepers receiving the signal from sovy - that's it.

 

 

Vigil knew precisely nothing about what went on on the Citadel. The Conduit was a one-way link. Everything Vigil said was speculation, as it explicitly tells you.

[Iakus]

Vigil knew precisely nothing about what went on on the Citadel. The Conduit was a one-way link. Everything Vigil said was speculation, as it explicitly tells you.

 

But it was certainly privvy to what the scientists planned to do

[AlanC9]

What, about 5 months

 

Whoops! I was assuming you'd been with us since ME1.

 

Not that people didn't find ME1's plot preposterous either, but usually we'd talk about Tali's ridiculous voice recording or some such.

[von uber]

Nope, only played me1, 2 & 3 in November/December. Back to back mind you, and three consecutive trilogy runs with more dlc each time.
So it's still quite fresh in my mind.

[AlanC9]

But it was certainly privvy to what the scientists planned to do

 

Sure. But that plan was predicated on guesswork.

 

I never quite got why the keepers were supposed to be necessary as middlemen anyway. Keeper receives signal, pushes button... why not use a receiver instead of a button?

[Iakus]

Sure. But that plan was predicated on guesswork.

 

So what makes Vigil's guesswork less valid than the Catalyst's?

[Ithurael]

Vigil knew precisely nothing about what went on on the Citadel. The Conduit was a one-way link. Everything Vigil said was speculation, as it explicitly tells you.

 

Where in his speech does he say anything about speculation regarding what the prothean scientists did?

 

 

http://youtu.be/Yw-8sAuOoaY?t=9m44s

 

The only time the VI said anything that it declared was speculation was about the reapers and their motivations and of course the fate of the prothean scientists. EDIT: and the keepers

 

http://youtu.be/Yw-8sAuOoaY?t=9m53s

"after decacades of feverish study the scientists found a way to alter this signal"

 

They developed a way to stop the signal first

 

then they went through the conduit and altered the keepers. The sabotage ONLY affected teh keepers lol

 

edit: also that is a badass looking shepard

[Farangbaa]

I never quite got why the keepers were supposed to be necessary as middlemen anyway. Keeper receives signal, pushes button... why not use a receiver instead of a button?

 

Well then we wouldn't have much of a game to play now, would we?

[Kel Riever]

Well then we wouldn't have much of a game to play now, would we?

 

Actually, it feels like the Keepers were sort of a truncated plot or just a device to get you to wander the citadel in ME1.  There's no problem with either.  It, of course, would have felt better if they played a more critical role.  But not addressing Keepers is really down the priority list in my book.

[Farangbaa]

Actually, it feels like the Keepers were sort of a truncated plot or just a device to get you to wander the citadel in ME1.  There's no problem with either.  It, of course, would have felt better if they played a more critical role.  But not addressing Keepers is really down the priority list in my book.

 

Lol, no. What I mean is that if what Alan suggests (just a receiver: Sovereign signals, the relay opens and the Reapers pour through) everyone would've been dead before the game even started.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

"Before each invasion a signal is sent through the Citadel compelling the keepers to activate the Citadel Relay." -- this is the 9:44 in the video.

 

This indicates something, like a computer, is telling them to do this.

 

"after decades of feverish study the scientists found a way to alter this signal."

 

So they studied this, but where? There on Ilos? And they altered the signal to the keepers, meaning they hacked the computer that sent the signal. 

 

at 10:13 "This time when Sovereign sent the signal to the Citadel, the keepers ignored it."

 

Wait, what?  I thought Vigil just said that the signal was sent through the Citadel compelling the keepers to activate the Citadel Relay. Now Vigil is telling me that the signal is sent from outside the Citadel from a Reaper, Sovereign, compelling the keepers to activate the Citadel Relay. How did the scientists alter the signal from Sovereign? 

 

Who wrote this crap? 

 

And so Sovereign must open the Citadel manually and let the Reapers in because there is no Intelligence on the Citadel to do so. This is in the game. This is in ME1. 

 

Here's the deal. Leviathan was written to fill in the plot ravine about the Intelligence. They created the Intelligence. The Intelligence used their own machine weapons against them in the first harvest to build the first true reaper. The Reapers made the mass relays. The Citadel is a giant mass relay connecting to Dark Space. It also serves to protect the Intelligence from outside attack when it is closed. When it is open everything inside is vulnerable. If the Intelligence had the Citadel Relay built as part of its experiment with the galaxy as Leviathan calls it, it would seem logical that the Intelligence would have itself connected directly to the Citadel Relay, wouldn't it? Of course we're dealing with logic like those who wrote the black text above. "I saw you were building synthetics that were could kill you so I sent a bunch of synthetics to kill you before you built synthetics that would killed you."

 

And, "That opening the Citadel Relay was bull****, and that 30 ly/day FTL? I gave 'em space magic upgrades and got 'em there in 3 years. I may not control the Citadel, but I control the Reapers. Get some, *****es!"

[AlanC9]

Is there something wrong with my screen, or are you trying to avoid ME1 spoilers?

[AlanC9]

Well then we wouldn't have much of a game to play now, would we?

 

Well, presumably the prothean scientists could just break the receiver. It's conceptually a lot easier than somehow not just genetically re-engineering the keepers, but doing it so well that they bred true for 50,000 years.

[von uber]

"Before each invasion a signal is sent through the Citadel compelling the keepers to activate the Citadel Relay." -- this is the 9:44 in the video.

 

This indicates something, like a computer, is telling them to do this.

 

"after decades of feverish study the scientists found a way to alter this signal."

 

So they studied this, but where? There on Ilos? And they altered the signal to the keepers, meaning they hacked the computer that sent the signal. 

 

at 10:13 "This time when Sovereign sent the signal to the Citadel, the keepers ignored it."

 

Wait, what?  I thought Vigil just said that the signal was sent through the Citadel compelling the keepers to activate the Citadel Relay. Now Vigil is telling me that the signal is sent from outside the Citadel from a Reaper, Sovereign, compelling the keepers to activate the Citadel Relay. How did the scientists alter the signal from Sovereign? 

 

Who wrote this crap? 

 

And so Sovereign must open the Citadel manually and let the Reapers in because there is no Intelligence on the Citadel to do so. This is in the game. This is in ME1. 

 

Here's the deal. Leviathan was written to fill in the plot ravine about the Intelligence. They created the Intelligence. The Intelligence used their own machine weapons against them in the first harvest to build the first true reaper. The Reapers made the mass relays. The Citadel is a giant mass relay connecting to Dark Space. It also serves to protect the Intelligence from outside attack when it is closed. When it is open everything inside is vulnerable. If the Intelligence had the Citadel Relay built as part of its experiment with the galaxy as Leviathan calls it, it would seem logical that the Intelligence would have itself connected directly to the Citadel Relay, wouldn't it? Of course we're dealing with logic like those who wrote the black text above. "I saw you were building synthetics that were could kill you so I sent a bunch of synthetics to kill you before you built synthetics that would killed you."

 

And, "That opening the Citadel Relay was bull****, and that 30 ly/day FTL? I gave 'em space magic upgrades and got 'em there in 3 years. I may not control the Citadel, but I control the Reapers. Get some, *****es!"

 

There we go.

[AlanC9]

Where in his speech does he say anything about speculation regarding what the prothean scientists did?

 

 

The part where he never heard anything from them. That's why he didn't know how they died, for instance. The only reason he knows that they succeeded is that Saren showed up looking for the Conduit, rather than the Reapers just pouring through in the usual way.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Is there something wrong with my screen, or are you trying to avoid ME1 spoilers?

 

No I'm not. I went to black text. I'm using BW dark background and it shows up just fine on my desktop screen which is a grey. I was just using it for emphasis.

[Ithurael]

The part where he never heard anything from them. That's why he didn't know how they died, for instance. The only reason he knows that they succeeded is that Saren showed up looking for the Conduit, rather than the Reapers just pouring through in the usual way.

 

exactly. And that is shown in the lore. But that wasn't up for discussion. It was never about the fate of the scientists. It was about the status of the keepers and the knowledge of the prothean sabotage.

 

But back to my original point made on the prior page:

 

You replied to von uber on his post for why the catalyst didn't just open the citadel or has more control over it.

 

You said that it was the sabotage

 

I corrected you by saying the keepers were only affected in that they would no longer receive the signal from soveriegn. They only respond to the citadel. And...unfortunatly...in ME3 we find the Catalyst IS Starjob and Starjob IS the citadel. and (from what we know from ME1) the keepers only respond to the citadel because (as the video tells you) the scientists worked to sever the ability for the keepers to receive the signal from soveriegn (nothing more) then used the conduit to deploy it.

 

That is all. Anything more is headcanon or speculation.

[Ithurael]

I also might say I hope I am not coming off as condescending. I am merely trying to be objective.

[Killdren88]

This is a no brainer. The Catalyst is thrown out the airlock, the Reapers are rewritten as the mechanical horrors from dark space. As they were meant to be.

[ImaginaryMatter]

This is a no brainer. The Catalyst is thrown out the airlock, the Reapers are rewritten as the mechanical horrors from dark space. As they were meant to be.

 

Here we go.

 

Although to be fair, ME2 did jump the shark on that issue once they introduced the human Reaper.