981 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

There must be some means by which it can intervene if Control is supposed to work.

 

That makes perfect sense.

[CronoDragoon]

Why? Where does the catalyst actively intervene? (I might be missing something painfully obvious here )

 

"It's clear" was the wrong phrasing there: I see no reason why the Catalyst wouldn't have a control failsafe. It's possible that once built they are autonomous, I suppose.

 

Edit: and yeah like Reorte said, it lends some support to the functionality of Control, although Control itself is a bit unclear: is it establishing a direct connection that didn't exist before, or is the Crucible wave merely updating the connection to now have Shepard in control?

[von uber]

Anderson stand there; nothing happens.
TIM stands there; nothing happens.
Shepard stands there; nothing happens.
Crucible docks.
Shepard stands there; elevator takes him to the Crucibles choices

That's a guess you are making. Not a source.
Can you point me to a source where it states that the crucible controls the elevator?

[CronoDragoon]

Anderson stand there; nothing happens.
TIM stands there; nothing happens.
Shepard stands there; nothing happens.
Crucible docks.
Shepard stands there; elevator takes him to the Crucibles choices.

 

It's also possible (and backed up by the Catalyst's words) that the fact of the Crucible changing him created a desire to bring Shepard to choose something new.

[capn233]

Pretty natural question to ask if you played the entire trilogy.

 

Unfortunately there aren't any satisfying answers in game, so you can essentially invent whatever reason you want.

[ImaginaryMatter]

So the Reapers themselves are Indoctrinated and don't know it, eh? It has a nice irony.

 

My theory is that the Reapers are not AI constructs at all, simply very advance VI akin to the Prothean VIs such as Vigil and Vendetta. Similar to how the Prothean VIs are based off of various researchers and scientists the Reapers dispositions are somewhat flavored by whatever collective something of the harvested races. This is based off the notion that since the Catalyst simply uses the Reapers as storage for genetic materials (since the mind upload part was deliberately cut from ME2) and weapons of war so there would be no need for it to give the Reapers free will that it would have to spend time restraining. It also explains a lot of the dumb things they do over the course of the trilogy, because they weren't created to be as adaptive as AI.

 

The Crucible itself in my little world also contains a program that rewrites the Catalyst (somehow) which is why it offers Destroy and Control and is forced to change it solution, because the idea that Shepard is standing there seems like a stupid reason to stop something that has been going on for billions of years. This program, or hack I guess, is the change of variables.

 

I'm still not sure what to think of the Catalyst. It does refer to the Citadel as its home, which seems to imply that it's hardware is housed in the station. Also, how it describes itself in relation to the Citadel is different than that of the Reapers. Since the Catalyst keeps mentioning that the Citadel is so close to him it seems like it would be reasonable to assume it also had control over various bits of it's functions.

 

This doesn't follow. Breaking control over one device doesn't imply breaking control over all of them. A quadriplegic can still control his eyes.

It's also never established that the Catalyst controls that elevator. But that doesn't matter.

 

Maybe, but it seems weird then that the Prothean sabotage only specifically cut out the signal for the Keepers to not activate the Citadel Relay but not cut out it's ability to activate secret elevators. Also, if the Catalyst could control them to activate parts of the Crucible it seems strange that it couldn't repair this function. Sovereign was able to adapt (I assume tearing up the Citadel tower wasn't a designed function) so it seems odd that the Catalyst couldn't jury rig something else with more resources and familiarity with the Citadel.

 

I always assumed it was him because who else would it be?

 

Overall I'm chalking this up to the ending being rushed out after like a single draft. These were the writers afterall who didn't think about teleporting squadmates, galactic dark ages and wastelands, fleeing loyal friends, entire races starving to death, or anything like that. While a great many of these issues were able to be addressed by the Extended Cut, this issue is rooted into the very premise of the Catalyst and it is not something that can easily be fixed. I doubt the writers ever thought about this which is why there is no answer. Since this subject seems to come up over and over again and every solution either requires a great deal of handwaving or head cannon, it doesn't seem self evident.

 

So, bad writing theory. Either that or we conclude that the Catalyst like Sovereign before him is full of hot air and delusions of self grandeur, that it is no where near as intelligent as it believes itself to be and it simply didn't think about it.

[SwobyJ]

I say 'both' stay.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Source?

 

The elevator is in a part of the Citadel which the Catalyst says no one has ever been to, which seems to imply that no one knew about it, which would include the designers of the Crucible (unless they had secret blueprints of the entire station).

[von uber]

It would be interesting to see what people's perspective on the choices available would be if the catalyst appeared in the same form as sovereign does.

[SwobyJ]

It would be interesting to see what people's perspective on the choices available would be if the catalyst appeared in the same form as sovereign does.

 

IMO imagine the Catalyst's words as Sovereign + Trying To Be Nice and it fits.

 

Wait. Sort of. I also have to headcanon the ending choice creating a 'new framework' for a Reaper, instead of affecting the entire galaxy. I'll go fiddle with my tin foil hat now.

 

 

Sovereign -- Nazara -- Guardian -- Catalyst

[KaiserShep]

It would be interesting to see what people's perspective on the choices available would be if the catalyst appeared in the same form as sovereign does.

"Shepard. Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot."

"Yeah, no sh*t."

"Anyway, I think I have a deal for you..."

[SwobyJ]

"Shepard. Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot."

"Yeah, no sh*t."

"Anyway, I think I have a deal for you..."

 

^^^^^^^^ lol. Yes. Exactly.

 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Couldn't it be that thanks to the intervention by the protheans the catalyst was left with the equivalent of a broken neck? Can't move from the head down but still alive and aware?

[SwobyJ]

Couldn't it be that thanks to the intervention by the protheans the catalyst was left with the equivalent of a broken neck? Can't move from the head down but still alive and aware?

 

Maybe. Personally I think it is Sovereign and he went to go hide his code within the Citadel.

 

Some things don't make immediate logical sense with this, but it very much works for me and how I see the games.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Because the Catalyst has no physical capability. It's thralls are how it functions. It is nothing but an omnipresent consciousness. The keepers signal was F'd up by the Protheans....hence why it cannot use them to open the relay. It makes sense just fine. Actually, it's quite smart to have layers of deception. Have the pawns do the dirty work.

 

 

But this is not entirely correct either. Sovereign's job was to send a signal to the keepers so that they would activate the Citadel relay when it determined that this cycle was ready to be wiped out. The Protheans sabotaged the keepers so that they would not respond to that signal. There was no Catalyst or Intelligence in existence at the time. That crap was all pulled out of the writers' asses in ME3 and in Leviathan respectively. 

 

You can choose to believe what you believe, but it's like believing that you have a chance to win Powerball without buying a ticket.

[SwobyJ]

Sovvy is our friend, uploading us into virtual worlds so that we're never lost to inevitable conflict Sovvy

 

BRB starting Sovereign romance thread.

[ImaginaryMatter]

"Shepard. Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot."

"Yeah, no sh*t."

"Anyway, I think I have a deal for you..."

 

Wait a moment...

 

Reapers don't have feet.

[KaiserShep]

Wait a moment...
 
Reapers don't have feet.

"We have assimilated your primitive idioms for your convenience."

[SwobyJ]

Your memories give voice to our words. Hi. Here's some feet. And a hoodie. And a lil kid voice mixed with both gendered versions of you own. 0_0

[Vortex13]

I say 'both' stay.

 

 

I would say remove the Catalyst and everything after Priority: Earth and start over; but like "Little Annie" and Whinny Teenage Annakin of Star Wars; he is a part of the series now.

 

I just have to do to the Catalyst like I do with Annakin; ignore him as much as possible, and hope that his character would hurry up and die so that we can get back to the compelling villain that is Darth Vader/the Reapers pre-Catalyst.

[SwobyJ]

The Reapers just want the best for us :'(

[von uber]

Me-sah wanta yousa to choosa an optiona!


Actually maybe someone could mod the voice to sound like that.

[SporkFu]

*shudder* Oh lord no.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Wait, how did we get from the Reapers not being aware of the Catalyst to them being indoctrinated by the Catalyst?

 

Them not being aware of the Catalyst seems painfully obvious to me, but they don't have to be indoctrinated to do what they are doing.

 

I think Harbinger and the Rannoch Reaper might actually be aware of the Catalyst, in that they reflect some awareness of its rationale for the harvests. Harbinger's "salvation through destruction" line is vague, but it does imply that the Reapers aren't just doing this for their own benefit and see their actions as necessary for some greater good. The Rannoch Reaper even sounds slightly sympathetic to Shepard, at least by Reaper standards - it seems to acknowledge that all this seems horrifying but believes that there is no alternative. They wouldn't *have* to know of the Catalyst to have these attitudes, but it's possible that they do.

 

Sovereign, on the other hand, either doesn't know or is lying when it states that "we have no beginning, we have no end."

[SwobyJ]

It's simple.

 

Reapers are Reaper-centric.

 

That's it. That's what they are. They think they'll help you if they make you a Reaper like they are, by any means possible.

 

And I don't think Sovereign is ignorant or lying btw, but we'll have to wait and see if I'm right on that or if it is even addressed.