They're not necessary to the MEU. However, they were completely central to the Shepard Trilogy. They were always the driving force behind the narrative.
I know. I just don't think they were a necessary plot caveat. The setting was interesting enough without them.
Vigil brings up the fact that the most likely reason Sovereign allied with the Heretics is because he sees a synthetic race as a more controllable replacement for the Keepers (who evolved in an unpredictable direction).
Right, I remember that. But that's at most a retcon.
Vigil is a Prothian VI and we know what the Prothians were now, in the context of ME3.
I do think they had a different plan for things for ME1, but they changed things for ME2-3. But that's just the writing process. Showing the Prothians as biased 'organics' may have been part of this change.
But even then, it's an easy change to understand. We're talking to a VI that had very limited knowledge. Half of what it said was speculation, and it was from the specifically 'Prothian-scientist' POV. Since we're now told what the current writers view the Prothians as (via the optional character of Javik), its easy to understand that they could see no other use for the geth by Sovereign than as slaves or tools to destroy after using.
And technically, that would be correct. Using a synthetic species to make up a Reaper, like with organics, would 'destroy' what they once were, and turn it into a gestalt Reaper intelligence. Still tools. Still slaves. But not 'betrayed'.
Legion never says the Heretics were offered a Reaper body. All he gives is a vague "the Old Machines offered them their future", and ME1 already tells us Sovereign planned on betraying them and making them the Keepers' replacement.
Oh no, he legit says they were offered a Reaper body. Takes a very specific dialogue option during the last conversation you can have with him.
8 minutes 22 seconds. Amazing the little gems Legion hides.
I'd have gone with no Reapers at all. That way. a lot of interesting stories can be told with the universe without the stupid cuttlefish bringing in the apocalypse and upheaving the entire setting.
Oh no, he legit says they were offered a Reaper body. Takes a very specific dialogue option during the last conversation you can have with him.
Wow, I never saw that. It's obvious in retrospect. Sovereign must have been laughing. "In return for fighting against organics, I will give you....exactly what's going to happen to you anyway!"
Hmm. So what would ME1 have been about?
This I have to agree with.
The whole success of ME starts at ME1. If there's no ME1, there's no 2 or 3. Now, I agree that 3 did not have to be the Mega apocalyptic battle with the Reapers, as SJ mentioned. It was about the characters. The whole thing could have been milked for a lot longer. But if you wanted the whole thing to end at 3, then you end the series with the Reaper invasion and wrap it.
It isn't the Reapers for me, it isn't the war. It is how it was done.
Wow, I never saw that. It's obvious in retrospect. Sovereign must have been laughing. "In return for fighting against organics, I will give you....exactly what's going to happen to you anyway!"
That's what Sovereign seems to do with everyone.
You wanna fight? Ugh, fine, but you'll still ascend at the end of things.
You wanna struggle? Cool, I'm ready for it, but ascension is all you're struggling for.
You wanna join me? Great, I'll give you more of a front side view of the Harvest.
~~~
And then I have my personal theory that an indoctrinated person is actually uploaded/'saved' into a Reaper, and the 'indoctrinated identity' is just a 'code copy' that is a jerk slave (see: EvilNezia and how she describes her mind) that is created to be so evil it should die anyway.
This came from Leviathan lore.
But if true, it would also make the indoctrinated Prothians left to stave, also 'slightly justifiable', since the 'real' ones were already 'saved' in Reaper form. They were used as tools while the real Prothians were made into smaller Reapers. Or left to starve. Or genetically modified as Harbinger's science project.
But that's maybe just fanwank.
Oh no, he legit says they were offered a Reaper body. Takes a very specific dialogue option during the last conversation you can have with him.
8 minutes 22 seconds. Amazing the little gems Legion hides.
Fair enough. I still don't really believe that Sovereign would have actually fulfilled that promise considering what Vigil says and what we discover truly goes into a Reaper at the end of ME2, but oh well. Point conceded.
Hmm. So what would ME1 have been about?
Saren works just as well without a Reaper guiding his actions. He could have simply been something akin to a revolutionary overthrowing an outdated and myopic Council. Whereas the Council condemns the Geth, Rachni and Krogan as monsters, Saren finds value in them (even if it's only for his own purposes).
I dunno. I just don't think "GALACTIC APOCALYPSE" was really a necessary direction to take the plot. There's so many political, racial and social ideas floating around in the MEU, and half of them get buried because Reapers.
I dunno. I just don't think "GALACTIC APOCALYPSE" was really a necessary direction to take the plot. There's so many political, racial and social ideas floating around in the MEU, and half of them get buried because Reapers.
I won't disagree with this. Like I said they sound cool on paper but once they start interacting with the story they cause all kinds of issues.
I liked the Reapers. Uncovering their mysteries was one of the main hooks of the series for me. However, I also find the setting interesting enough without them. Which is why you'll often see me stating my desire that the next game's main focus be on that setting, and not on a world-eating threat.I know. I just don't think they were a necessary plot caveat. The setting was interesting enough without them.
The reapers worked best in ME1, but they went all over the place when the trilogy introduced us to the Collectors. Personally, I found the reveal that the relays and Citadel was actually created by them rather than the protheans was their most interesting characteristic.
Saren works just as well without a Reaper guiding his actions. He could have simply been something akin to a revolutionary overthrowing an outdated and myopic Council. Whereas the Council condemns the Geth, Rachni and Krogan as monsters, Saren finds value in them (even if it's only for his own purposes).
I dunno. I just don't think "GALACTIC APOCALYPSE" was really a necessary direction to take the plot. There's so many political, racial and social ideas floating around in the MEU, and half of them get buried because Reapers.
So...
Indoctrination, about the child that is.
I didn't get the kids parts, I though when you & Anderson sat there..wounded, that was the end - perfect ending, yet.. the kids pops out off no where, and a lot of theories says that your Shepard was Indoctrinated..so mmmmm
Works for me. And then we don't have to bring the ME1 PC back in the sequels because we don't have a continuing plot.
I must admit that I really do like being able to carry over the same PC in the next game, regardless of whether or not there's a continuing plot. It'd be like following the adventures of the crew of the USS Enterprise or something.
ME2 killed it. ME3 tried to bring some of it back. A tall order considering the middle installment went completely off the rails on some tangent. The introduction of the Collector's was the first step in convoluting the overarching narrative.The reapers worked best in ME1, but they went all over the place when the trilogy introduced us to the Collectors. Personally, I found the reveal that the relays and Citadel was actually created by them rather than the protheans was their most interesting characteristic.
The real problem kind of lies with the reapers themselves. As a faction, they're problematic in that they just don't really mesh all that well with a shooter, so the closest thing to reapers we ever really fight in large numbers are their monsters, but shooting husks and whatever else can seem like kind of a waste, because in the end, you're just fighting off disposable mooks made of your own recycled people that the giant space monsters are tossing at you. So as goofy as the Collectors may seem, it seems to me that the game could only really do one of two things with the reapers in ME2: either have them invade at some point in that game and simply have a two-part story, or create "upgraded" reaper monsters to fight, yet again.
The real problem kind of lies with the reapers themselves. As a faction, they're problematic in that they just don't really mesh all that well with a shooter, so the closest thing to reapers we ever really fight in large numbers are their monsters, but shooting husks and whatever else can seem like kind of a waste, because in the end, you're just fighting off disposable mooks made of your own recycled people that the giant space monsters are tossing at you.
Yes, that's definitely one of the main problems with them. Then they overshadow everything and its mother, figuratively and literally. That moment on the Citadel in ME1 when you look at Sovereign pretty much sums it up.
Space combat would've been interesting, but I wonder how messy a game this would've been if it had a mix of two completely different types of gameplay. I'm guessing that something like space battles that we can actually control would be guided more by our choices (who/what to send and where) on top of how adequately the fleet is prepared in total. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking something like a larger scale version of the suicide mission, where you can set a certain strategy with the fleets at your disposal and hope that you're playing to their strengths, but with something like the reapers, I don't really know how something like that would work.
I have no doubt that there's a lot you personally dislike about ME3. I could easily make such a list for ME1 and ME2, though. Does that make them bad games?
The real problem here is that people can't deal with not liking something.
The real problem here is that people can't deal with not liking something.
Oh hello, this certainly takes me back... What you've done there, is you basically said "your opinion doesn't matter", only indirectly and in a quite smart way so that it doesn't look like it at first glance. Do you work in BioWare's PR department?
I believe the point was that such a list doesn't explain much. I could write up a list of 20 bad things about ME3 myself; it might even have a few of the things from your list on it. Or a list for DA:O, or almost any other game. Wouldn't prove much of anything.
Oh hello, this certainly takes me back... What you've done there, is you basically said "your opinion doesn't matter", only indirectly and in a quite smart way so that it doesn't look like it at first glance. Do you work in BioWare's PR department?
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