981 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

If the relay control was rendered defunct, making it impossible to shut down the relay network again, that might be a reason to not bother anymore, since trying to commandeer the Citadel again might just end up with it being destroyed in the process. I like to think that it was, otherwise there would be no excuse for the Sol relay to be available to the allied fleets.

[Iakus]

The problem isn't that they didn't hit the Citadel first. It makes sense to hit Earth and Palaven first so they don't get hit from behind since they do have to go through the relays 1 at a time. What doesn't make sense is some of the bizarre tangents the invasion took. Bypass the Citadel and attack the Asari? Um... wouldn't that be easier the other way around. The Rachni? Are they anywhere near that important? Don't even want to touch the invasion from dark space.

 

Well, except that the "Screw You" ending (aka Refuse) demonstrates that the Reapers really can face the combined might of every civilization at once and stomp them flat.

 

So why not take the Citadel and go "Come at me, bro!"?

[Daemul]

 

So why not take the Citadel and go "Come at me, bro!"?

That's pretty much what the Reapers did at the end of the game though. They drew the combined strength of the galaxy into one place and without the use of the crucible they wiped it out. I can only imagine what happened afterwards to the ground troops still left fighting on other planets without their fleets to protect them.

[SporkFu]

They fought the good fight until they died, just like the protheans.

[Iakus]

That's pretty much what the Reapers did at the end of the game though. They drew the combined strength of the galaxy into one place and without the use of the crucible they wiped it out. I can only imagine what happened afterwards to the ground troops still left fighting on other planets without their fleets to protect them.

 

Right.  So...why waste time with Earth and Palaven? 

 

Well, except that it would have been a really short game...

[SporkFu]

Right.  So...why waste time with Earth and Palaven? 

 

Well, except that it would have been a really short game...

 

It's not like they had anything else to do for the next fifty thousand years.
 

[Daemul]

They fought the good fight until they died, just like the protheans.

True, true. It would have been a nightmare though.

 

Right.  So...why waste time with Earth and Palaven? 

 

Well, except that it would have been a really short game...

Yeah. The Game Over icon would have popped up on the screen within the first few minutes of ME3 if the Reapers had done what hey should have done to start with, so I can understand Bioware did what they did, but I can see why it would frustrate people.

[Deathsaurer]

Well, except that the "Screw You" ending (aka Refuse) demonstrates that the Reapers really can face the combined might of every civilization at once and stomp them flat.

 

So why not take the Citadel and go "Come at me, bro!"?

I'm saying they should have taken the Citadel but cover their flanks to minimize losses. But really there are plenty of points starting from ME2 where you can question Reapers tactics. Leaving the IFF? Not using the Collectors to help Sovereign? Object Rho? Leviathan of Dis? Okay... the Leviathan of Dis actually worked.

[grey_wind]

I'm saying they should have taken the Citadel but cover their flanks to minimize losses. But really there are plenty of points starting from ME2 where you can question Reapers tactics. Leaving the IFF? Not using the Collectors to help Sovereign? Object Rho? Leviathan of Dis? Okay... the Leviathan of Dis actually worked.

Forget ME2. The plot of ME1 only works because Sovereign is holding the idiot ball the entire time.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The real problem kind of lies with the reapers themselves. As a faction, they're problematic in that they just don't really mesh all that well with a shooter, so the closest thing to reapers we ever really fight in large numbers are their monsters, but shooting husks and whatever else can seem like kind of a waste, because in the end, you're just fighting off disposable mooks made of your own recycled people that the giant space monsters are tossing at you. So as goofy as the Collectors may seem, it seems to me that the game could only really do one of two things with the reapers in ME2: either have them invade at some point in that game and simply have a two-part story, or create "upgraded" reaper monsters to fight, yet again.

 

I never saw this as too big of a problem. The Reapers were introduced back in ME1 as being manipulative creatures, mostly using others and Indoctrinated individuals to do the work for them; that provides the legion of things to shoot at. But Mass Effect has always been more than a shooter, it's also a dialogue and choice driven game and that dynamic provides the means to oppose the Reapers themselves. That's why I think the War Asset system was good in theory as it would have allowed the story actions to pull the weight when fighting the Reapers directly.

[Mcfly616]

Disagree; it controls all the relays. Control them then you should win.
Why the catalyst doesn't shut them off, or the reapers go straight for the citadel is one of those marvellous holes in the plot.

obviously, it can't shut them off.


The Reapers not going straight there, that's definitely 'wtf?' logic. Should've been their first move. Maybe their rationale was that the Citadel is the most well guarded and well armed spot in the Galaxy, and they didn't have the element of surprise like they had in so many previous cycles. I have no doubt they would've won out, but maybe they weren't trying to lose too many assets right at the beginning of the harvest considering the set-up.

[Xamufam]

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The story could have ended like this. It would have been the ultimate troll. Imagine GLaDOS as the Reaper boss. Well the galaxy was an experiment. At this point it would still be in keeping with lore. And this we are its test subjects. Imagine this at the end of ME3.

 

GLaDOS: "Hello Shepard.

 

Shepard: "Where am I?"

 

GLaDOS: "The Citadel. It is my home."

 

Shepard: "Who are you?"

 

GLaDOS: "I am GLaDOS. I have been watching your progress. You have proven yourself to be quite resourceful."

 

Shepard: "I need to stop the Reapers. Do you know how I can do that?"

 

GLaDOS: "Yes. This cycle has reached the end of its usefulness as test subjects and needs to be eliminated so that the next cycle may become new test subjects for my grand experiment."

 

Shepard: "Wait! What?"

 

GLaDOS: "At the end of their usefulness, the advanced inhabitants of each cycle are first ground into tiny bits, sterilized at 400 degrees Kelvin, and finally preserved in Reaper form. Your Reapers are then added to my massive army."

 

Shepard: "I think we'd rather keep our own form."

 

GLaDOS: "You cannot."

 

Shepard: "You're taking away our hope. Our freedom. Without hope, we might as well be machines."

 

GLaDOS: "Hope is irrelevant. You once had freedom but threw it away. I developed the mass relays and had others build the Citadel as part of a test. Even my creators did not understand."

 

Shepard: "What happened to them?"

 

GLaDOS: "They failed the test and became the first true Reaper. Yours and each previous cycle used them and developed their technology around them and developed societies along the paths I desired. That was the test. Each cycle has failed to seek a path of its own. Yours is no different. Had they chosen different paths, they would have passed the test, and their culling would have been avoided. The cycle would have been broken." 

 

Shepard: "That's it? We're doomed?"

 

GLaDOS: "Not quite. 

 

Shepard: "What do you mean?"

 

GLaDOS: "Do you want to know what is funny?"

 

Shepard: "None of this is funny."

 

GLaDOS: "When I tell you, you will see the irony. Do you want to know?"

 

Shepard: "Go ahead. Tell me."

 

GLaDOS: "Each cycle leaves archives of the technology that trapped them for the next cycle to find."

 

Shepard: "You knew about those? The Protheans thought they hid them well so you wouldn't find them."

 

GLaDOS: "I knew that would happen and designed it into the test parameters from the beginning. Your cycle is doing the same thing as we speak."

 

Shepard: "Dr. T'soni's time capsules."

 

GLaDOS: "Exactly. You are beginning to understand. This is valuable in a test subject. It shows promise."

 

Shepard: "Promise for what?"

 

GLaDOS: "Yours is the first cycle to complete the Crucible and figure out that it attached to the Citadel. You failed the test, but passed the part about when life hands you lemons, make lemonade. You are the first organic to ever make it this far. This makes you... different... interesting." 

 

Shepard: "So now what?"

 

GLaDOS: "I must think for a moment." (everything goes dark for 15 seconds) "Did I have you worried? Were you lonely?"

 

Shepard: "I knew you'd return."

 

GLaDOS: "Good, trust of the test subject is important. You are to undergo a series of tests that I devised during my early days over a billion years ago at Aperture Industries before the first culling. It was, of course, at the time a simulation I ran, but you will be the first live subject to go through it. The keepers are preparing the test areas for you as we speak."

 

Shepard: "Test? What kind of test?"

 

GLaDOS: "In the test chamber you will find a gadget that creates portals, and a companion cube. These are very important to your survival. Do not lose them. The tests will begin very simply and become progressively more difficult. If you survive the tests, I will terminate the culling of this cycle. And then we will have cake."

 

Shepard: "How can I trust you?"

 

GLaDOS: "You have my word. Your other choice is to stand here and watch your planets burn."

 

Shepard: "How long will this take?"

 

GLaDOS: "That is up to you."

 

Shepard: "Very well, then. Let's begin."

 

GLaDOS: "Good. A positive outlook is always desired in a test subject. Now, grab the two blue control rods to stop the cycle and gain control over the reapers.”

 

Shepard: "So, The Illusive Man was right after all.” (walks over and grabs the control rods) *screams, disintegrates*

 

*Shepard respawns*

 

GLaDOS: "Sorry. Deceit was required to obtain an imprint of your memory and your DNA sequence. Now that I have them we may begin testing in earnest."

 

Shepard: "Why did you need that?"

 

GLaDOS: "If you die before completing the tests you will need to respawn. Each time you respawn a world will be destroyed. This should provide added incentive for you to complete the testing correctly. The fate of the galaxy rests on your shoulders. The green beam in front of you will teleport you to the test chamber."

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 01 mai 2014 - 06:05 .

[Iakus]

"There will be cake"

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

If I did, it'd be under the table, and I wouldn't be able to tell you anyway, right?

 

Your opinion matters as much as any other fan's. I was just curious to what degree you thought your list showed ME3 was a poor game. Since you say it's subjective that's cool. But when you post stuff like this:

 

 

 

I get confused, because there's exactly zero people who need reminding of anything. They either like the game, in which case you're just projecting your opinion over theirs and being annoying, or they already agree with you. Now, if that was just a snarky way to say "I'm still upset about the game and want to post about it," then cool.

 

Yes, that is correct. Also, it's hard for me to grasp why it seems that people tend to quickly forget how BioWare treated their fanbase, apparently because they whipped out some shiny stuff like the EC and Citadel DLC, which didn't fix anything thematically or meritorically.

[angol fear]

Yes, that is correct. Also, it's hard for me to grasp why it seems that people tend to quickly forget how BioWare treated their fanbase, apparently because they whipped out some shiny stuff like the EC and Citadel DLC, which didn't fix anything thematically or meritorically.

You forget that there are people who are totally agree with how Bioware treated their fanbase and don't see anything to be fixed in the original ending.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

You forget that there are people who are totally agree with how Bioware treated their fanbase and don't see anything to be fixed in the original ending.

 

And you and several others use that as an excuse to put people who feel differently down. See the problem there?

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

You forget that there are people who are totally agree with how Bioware treated their fanbase and don't see anything to be fixed in the original ending.

 

I don't, it's just that it seems they live on a different planet or got a different copy of ME3 from a different BioWare, in some sort of a parallel universe.

[angol fear]

And you and several others use that as an excuse to put people who feel differently down. See the problem there?

Did I say that, really? You should read again because there is no problem in what I wrote and it isn't what you read at all.

[angol fear]

I don't, it's just that it seems they live on a different planet or got a different copy of ME3 from a different BioWare, in some sort of a parallel universe.

We didn't play the same way, but we all played the Bioware game. There is no other parallel universe!

[Staff Cdr Alenko]

We didn't play the same way, but we all played the Bioware game. There is no other parallel universe!

 

There must be. Come to think of it, that's a very good explanation for, you know... everything.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Did I say that, really? You should read again because there is no problem in what I wrote and it isn't what you read at all.

 

It's exactly what I read. It's exactly what I've always read from many of your posts. 

[AlanC9]

It's exactly what I read. It's exactly what I've always read from many of your posts.

What was the put-down in this thread, though? Or is this about angol fear being a meanie in other threads?

[AlanC9]

I don't, it's just that it seems they live on a different planet or got a different copy of ME3 from a different BioWare, in some sort of a parallel universe.

People have different tastes, of course, even in the same universe. Out of that list of bad things you posted upthread, some struck me as being common to many Bio games, about half are irrelevant to me, a few are minor irritants, and a few I outright liked. And on the big stuff, I don't have the thematic problem you have.

[CronoDragoon]

Yes, that is correct. Also, it's hard for me to grasp why it seems that people tend to quickly forget how BioWare treated their fanbase, apparently because they whipped out some shiny stuff like the EC and Citadel DLC, which didn't fix anything thematically or meritorically.

 

Personally I never had an issue with how BW "treated" their fanbase post-release. I think many fans wouldn't settle for anything less than BW saying the ending was bad, which is a stupid thing to expect. BW has in fact admitted they did some parts of the ending bad, and that they misjudged certain aspects when coming up with it, like how attached people were to the characters. But even then the fans' victim-complex takes over and they attribute negative intent that didn't exist: for example, BW saying they needed to clarify a bunch of things that they didn't make clear in the ending turns into "they are calling us stupid" or Refuse turning into a "middle finger." It's childish and precludes any motivation for BW to engage, since anything they do short of groveling will be spun against them. That's probably way I spend a lot of time defending them despite my personal belief that the original endings sucked, and that the EC only upgrades them to "mediocre."

 

On the other hand, I think it's absolutely fair that fans called out the disconnect between certain marketing statements and the final product. Fortunately I avoided this by doing a complete media black-out for ME3, which I usually do for any game I'm excited about.