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[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Control is the only ending with actual closure.

[KaiserShep]

Control gets credit for at least having a paragon/renegade version ending.  And Renegade is appropriately spooky.
 
Otherwise all the endings duck out of the "really interesting" questions.
 
By which I mean "unpleasant implications"

Renegade control has some unpleasant implications.

[Mcfly616]

The problem with people who say they are all 'moved' by the ending(s) which are atrocious pieces of writing, is that for all I can see, they're not even paying attention to the words. What they are paying attention to is the music, the visual display, and the great desire to not put a pin into the 100 hour game experience they completed. Most don't seem to be able to hold a candle to the argument when it comes to talking through the story and the dialogue. That isn't 100% true but I find it to be mostly true. In other words, all the vast story behind Mass Effect, or what I'd even argue is the point of playing Mass Effect, is lost on them. They are as 'moved' as when they play a first person shooter, like Halo, which has a pretty shallow story by comparisson (though one in which they did not screw up the ending).

I only ever played Mass Effect for the story. Since Day 1 2007, I knew what I was getting into with a Bioware sci fi RPG. I listened to every word. The music was nice. Oh, but I wanted the story over. I couldn't care less about the visual display. Maybe those who can't stand the endings are those that refuse to put a pin in it? Not sure what you're referring to with 'able to hold a candle to the argument when it comes to talking through the story and the dialogue.' Ofcourse, you said 'most' and not all. So, whatever.

I know the Mass Effect Trilogy story/narrative/whatever front to back. If you're talking about arguments over completely subjective interpretations of the material, then I guess you're being, well, subjective ha...


Halo 4's ending sucked. So did it's exposition. So did Halo 2....

[Deathsaurer]

Control is the only ending with actual closure.

Not really... There is plenty of questions they left hanging, mainly about everyones feelings about the Reapers. People cheered when they withdrew in high EMS but how is everyone going to feel about the in your face big brother is watching you act?

[Mcfly616]

Not really... There is plenty of questions they left hanging, mainly about everyones feelings about the Reapers. People cheered when they withdrew in high EMS but how is everyone going to feel about the in your face big brother is watching you act?

I'm glad they left that bit to the imagination.

[Kel Riever]

Not really... There is plenty of questions they left hanging, mainly about everyones feelings about the Reapers. People cheered when they withdrew in high EMS but how is everyone going to feel about the in your face big brother is watching you act?

 

Well, uh we do know what happens to Shepard's body....

[Ryriena]

Not really... There is plenty of questions they left hanging, mainly about everyones feelings about the Reapers. People cheered when they withdrew in high EMS but how is everyone going to feel about the in your face big brother is watching you act?

I do not like that either it just feels way out of character for them to like it. I mean when you see the control ending everyone looks scared

[Iakus]

Renegade control has some unpleasant implications.

Thus why I said renegade Control is at least "spooky"

[marcelo caldas]

controlling the elevator to its chamber is the same as a Mass Relay? Okay....

 

EDI vented the entire Normandy, I can't imagine why the beloved BW star brat couldn't do the same or open a relay, or shutdown everything.

Just don't try to make sense out of it.

[SwobyJ]

There is no elevator. It fades out, shows the Crucible, and then Shepard is just on his knees.

[Iakus]

There is no elevator. It fades out, shows the Crucible, and then Shepard is just on his knees.

 

Huh? 

[AlanC9]

Thus why I said renegade Control is at least "spooky"

A sequel set in a dystopian RenControl future could be fun.

[SwobyJ]

Huh? 

 

http://youtu.be/8B-oYRdhgCM?t=19m46s

 

I mean there apparently is an elevator, but we don't see Shepard on their knees on it. Just:

-pass out on it (damn good placement?)

-levitation upward

-fade away to shot of the Crucible docked

-fade back in to Shepard on their knees, ahead of the elevator

[Mcfly616]

EDI vented the entire Normandy, I can't imagine why the beloved BW star brat couldn't do the same or open a relay, or shutdown everything.
Just don't try to make sense out of it.

you're quoting a post from before this topic was fully discussed. Continue reading.


Just don't try to compare EDI to the Catalyst.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

you're quoting a post from before this topic was fully discussed. Continue reading.


Just don't try to compare EDI to the Catalyst.

 

I agree we shouldn't compare EDI to Starbrat. EDI was smarter.

[Mcfly616]

I agree we shouldn't compare EDI to Starbrat. EDI was smarter.

coming from a person who subscribes to the Xzibit meme. Good one.


nah, EDI is completely different. Created by a much lesser race. Ofcourse, it's not surprising they operate in completely different ways. The Catalyst working through organics, EDI functioning in a more technological manner. Then again, I find it ironic that people use her in comparison to the Catalyst. It's possible for EDI to lose control of the Normandy, yes. Just as it's possible for the Catalyst to lose control of the Citadel/Dark Space Relay. Which is so hard for people to comprehend (for whatever reason) when all the evidence points to it. The Protheans threw a spanner in spokes. Shepard preserved the Sabotage. The Catalyst doesn't regain complete control of its station until the Reapers retake it at the end of ME3.

And then we get "oh, Vigil was talking about the Signal from/to Keepers/Sovereign/Citadel." Another facepalm worthy observation. Hmm who controls all of them? The Catalyst.





Round and round, round we go....

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You do have to admit, McFly, that it would have been very interesting to be one of the writing team trying to figure out a way to get out of the mess they made of the series. It seems to fit together now, but at the time it really wasn't planned out to fit this way. But they really had to pull some fast ones. Like the super fast FTL that most people would overlook, because if they didn't Shepard would be as old as Anderson, and thus not be the super soldier. Well I suppose you could do the Arnold or Stallone thing with him/her where age doesn't matter until they get into their mid-60s. 

 

Why do I keep picking and laughing? Because after that ending it's all I have left, and it's amusing. I keep finding more stuff.

[Mcfly616]

You do have to admit, McFly, that it would have been very interesting to be one of the writing team trying to figure out a way to get out of the mess they made of the series. It seems to fit together now, but at the time it really wasn't planned out to fit this way. But they really had to pull some fast ones. Like the super fast FTL that most people would overlook, because if they didn't Shepard would be as old as Anderson, and thus not be the super soldier. Well I suppose you could do the Arnold or Stallone thing with him/her where age doesn't matter until they get into their mid-60s.

Why do I keep picking and laughing? Because after that ending it's all I have left, and it's amusing. I keep finding more stuff.

it's clear as day that they didn't plan from the beginning. It's not the most cohesive experience.


But it works. It works just fine. And it doesn't take any stretch of logic. It's pretty straightforward. Could it have been better? Absolutely. It could've felt a whole lot different. I was expecting much more than I got (in terms of the final mission). But at the end of the day, it made sense and the game is probably the longest in the series with all DLCs included....so I'm happy with it.

[AlanC9]

I'll bite: the interesting question was...? (I have several myself, which is why I ask)

The big question I had was what the experience of Synthesis was like for a human. We hear from someone who has become more like us rather than hearing from, say, Joker, who has become.... something different from us.

[ShadowLordXII]

coming from a person who subscribes to the Xzibit meme. Good one.


nah, EDI is completely different. Created by a much lesser race. Ofcourse, it's not surprising they operate in completely different ways. The Catalyst working through organics, EDI functioning in a more technological manner. Then again, I find it ironic that people use her in comparison to the Catalyst. It's possible for EDI to lose control of the Normandy, yes. Just as it's possible for the Catalyst to lose control of the Citadel/Dark Space Relay. Which is so hard for people to comprehend (for whatever reason) when all the evidence points to it. The Protheans threw a spanner in spokes. Shepard preserved the Sabotage. The Catalyst doesn't regain complete control of its station until the Reapers retake it at the end of ME3.

And then we get "oh, Vigil was talking about the Signal from/to Keepers/Sovereign/Citadel." Another facepalm worthy observation. Hmm who controls all of them? The Catalyst.

Round and round, round we go....

 

So we're disregarding any merit to ME1's plot now? Paying attention to previously stated details is worthy of a facepalm? Now you're just desperate.

 

What evidence points to the Catalyst losing control of the Citadel? How would the scientists be able to block him if they never even knew about him? As I've pointed out again and again, the Catalyst itself states that Shepard is the first organic to ever encounter him since he started the cycles. Which means that no one else was even aware of his existence. You can't block something from interaction if you never even knew that it was there.

 

Vigil, an advanced VI Interface who had first-hand knowledge of what the scientists knew and what they were planning to do, specifies that the sabotage was targeted at cutting off the connection between Sovereign and the Keepers so that the later would only respond to the Citadel.

 

So where's the hard evidence that the Catalyst was targeted or that he couldn't correct it? If we're to accept that the Catalyst is part of the Citadel and that the Keepers still responded to the Citadel, that means that Star-Child would still be able to correct the signal or just activate the Dark Relay itself. Nothing suggests that Star-Child was affected at all because, A) The prothean scientists didn't know about him; He wasn't the target of their sabotage. Which means that nothing should've stopped the Catalyst from continuing the cycle when it was meant to continue.

 

But if that's not acceptable to you, then by all means, keeping running in circles to justify something that can't be justified.

[Iakus]

coming from a person who subscribes to the Xzibit meme. Good one.


nah, EDI is completely different. Created by a much lesser race. Ofcourse, it's not surprising they operate in completely different ways. The Catalyst working through organics, EDI functioning in a more technological manner. Then again, I find it ironic that people use her in comparison to the Catalyst. It's possible for EDI to lose control of the Normandy, yes. Just as it's possible for the Catalyst to lose control of the Citadel/Dark Space Relay. Which is so hard for people to comprehend (for whatever reason) when all the evidence points to it. The Protheans threw a spanner in spokes. Shepard preserved the Sabotage. The Catalyst doesn't regain complete control of its station until the Reapers retake it at the end of ME3.

And then we get "oh, Vigil was talking about the Signal from/to Keepers/Sovereign/Citadel." Another facepalm worthy observation. Hmm who controls all of them? The Catalyst.





Round and round, round we go....

 

EDI was far smarter than the Catalyst.  Arguably more advanced too.

 

She at least could alter her programming and her priorities when faced with new information.  The Catalyst was little more than a VI.

[ImaginaryMatter]

coming from a person who subscribes to the Xzibit meme. Good one.


nah, EDI is completely different. Created by a much lesser race. Ofcourse, it's not surprising they operate in completely different ways. The Catalyst working through organics, EDI functioning in a more technological manner. Then again, I find it ironic that people use her in comparison to the Catalyst. It's possible for EDI to lose control of the Normandy, yes. Just as it's possible for the Catalyst to lose control of the Citadel/Dark Space Relay. Which is so hard for people to comprehend (for whatever reason) when all the evidence points to it. The Protheans threw a spanner in spokes. Shepard preserved the Sabotage. The Catalyst doesn't regain complete control of its station until the Reapers retake it at the end of ME3.

And then we get "oh, Vigil was talking about the Signal from/to Keepers/Sovereign/Citadel." Another facepalm worthy observation. Hmm who controls all of them? The Catalyst.





Round and round, round we go....

 

I wouldn't call it evidence. Assuming the Prothean scientists did something else to the station because it is necessary for a fan theory that fills in a plot hole isn't exactly compelling stuff. Sure, it's plausible (of course one wonders what the Catalyst was doing while the Protheans were hard at work sabotaging the entire station, possible doing more work within the duration of their limited supplies than during the entirety of the Prothean reign), sleeping I guess, but It isn't straight forward. At the end of the day the writers should have at least attempted to connect the Catalyst and the Reapers of ME3 to those that were present in the first game, beyond the pretense that the Organic/Synthetic conflict was indeed the 'chaos' all those Reapers were talking about.

[ImaginaryMatter]

EDI was far smarter than the Catalyst.  Arguably more advanced too.

 

She at least could alter her programming and her priorities when faced with new information.  The Catalyst was little more than a VI.

 

Ya, when the Catalyst says it is as much an AI as Shepard is an animal, I assume it is being arrogant like Sovereign and Harbinger before it.

[KaiserShep]

Ya, when the Catalyst says it is as much an AI as Shepard is an animal, I assume it is being arrogant like Sovereign and Harbinger before it.

All I could think was "oh good, I'm stuck talking to captain obvious."

[Mcfly616]

So we're disregarding any merit to ME1's plot now? Paying attention to previously stated details is worthy of a facepalm? Now you're just desperate.

I'm desperate? Look no further than your efforts to disregard the obvious for the very definition of "desperate". Nobody's disregarded ME1. Simply pointing out the fact that the Catalyst controls the entities of ME1 (Sovereign and by extension Saren). And the fact that half of the things Vigil says is speculation on its part.

What evidence points to the Catalyst losing control of the Citadel? How would the scientists be able to block him if they never even knew about him? As I've pointed out again and again, the Catalyst itself states that Shepard is the first organic to ever encounter him since he started the cycles. Which means that no one else was even aware of his existence. You can't block something from interaction if you never even knew that it was there.

and as I've stated again again, the Catalyst functions through it's thralls, the Reapers. You absolutely can block something you didn't know about if it functions through an extension of its pawns. I can cut a phone line without knowing where the call was coming from or where the damn electricity comes from for that matter.

Vigil, an advanced VI Interface who had first-hand knowledge of what the scientists knew and what they were planning to do, specifies that the sabotage was targeted at cutting off the connection between Sovereign and the Keepers so that the later would only respond to the Citadel.

So where's the hard evidence that the Catalyst was targeted or that he couldn't correct it? If we're to accept that the Catalyst is part of the Citadel and that the Keepers still responded to the Citadel, that means that Star-Child would still be able to correct the signal or just activate the Dark Relay itself. Nothing suggests that Star-Child was affected at all because, A) The prothean scientists didn't know about him; He wasn't the target of their sabotage. Which means that nothing should've stopped the Catalyst from continuing the cycle when it was meant to continue.

the Catalyst resides in the Citadel. Just as EDI resides in the Normandy. If you want to consider the Citadel as part of 'It'. So be it. The Keepers respond to the Citadel(not the Catalyst) because they have been genetically repurposed for a specified task (like the Collectors) (i.e. maintaining the station).

Where's the hard evidence that the Catalyst can't open the Dark Space Relay on its own? Easy. It doesn't. Therefore it can't. If it could it would. Keep trying to avoid that simple logic. It'll get you somewhere....eventually.

A) you don't need to know where a signal originates in order to interrupt it

no one said the Catalyst was the target, the signal was.


Sovereign and all Reapers (as well as the those they indoctrinate) are all serving the Catalysts purpose. Like a pyramid scheme, they are all an extension of itself. It's organic hybrid thralls. If the Catalyst functions through the Reapers (e.g. has the Reapers signal the Keepers) Catalyst -> Reapers -> Keepers.....and then the connection between Reapers and Keepers is severed.....then the Catalyst no longer has direct control over those that maintain its station. (consequently, reinforcing the entire plot of ME1. Not disregarding it.)

But if that's not acceptable to you, then by all means, keeping running in circles to justify something that can't be justified.

if it could open the Dark Space Relay it would.....


Unless you could explain otherwise....go ahead.


Or just keep running in circles with your fingers in your ears.