981 réponses à ce sujet

[The Bad One]

The best hypothesis to me still sounds like asserting the Catalyst controls the elevator and can control the Citadel, but chooses not to so as not to expose himself. Doesn't this seem like the most reasonable assimilation of all the facts? Why would we even need to jump through hoops about the Crucible activating the elevator, and the Catalyst not being able to control a station he built, when we can just say that and be done with it.

 

Unless there's something that contradicts that line of thinking, which I haven't seen in this thread at least.

 

That leads to a multitude of "Why didn't he do this, and that, and this".

The Crucible activating the elevator on the other hand doesn't cause any plot inconsistencies like that, which actually makes it more plausible.

One situation causes contradictions within the plot, the other doesn't.

[CrutchCricket]

The best hypothesis to me still sounds like asserting the Catalyst controls the elevator and can control the Citadel, but chooses not to so as not to expose himself. Doesn't this seem like the most reasonable assimilation of all the facts? Why would be even need to jump through hoops about the Crucible activating the elevator, and the Catalyst not being able to control a station he built, when we can just say that and be done with it.

 

Unless there's something that contradicts that line of thinking, which I haven't seen in this thread at least.

 

How would it expose itself? If the Keepers fail to open the Citadel, the holokid does, the Reapers come pouring through and everybody dies. As usual. If we have a button in a room that kills everyone what does it matter if someone sees who pressed it? Even leaving aside the fact that in 99.99999% of cases no one knew there even was a button until they were dying by the millions.

 

In fact forget all that. How could anyone even infer the holokid's existance? The Keepers are ignored, but they still have a physical presence. The holokid does not. If it acts within the Citadel how would it get discovered? Nobody knows how the Citadel's internal systems work or what they do. As for the relay opening, if it seemingly opened on its own we'd likely assume it was a timer before we assumed there was a malevolent AI in the Citadel the whole time. Even knowing what we know about the Reapers and the cycles, asserting that without proof seems like paranoid lunacy.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

1) Where are you gettting that the Crucible plans make no mention of it. It could have said "The Crucible docks, the devices are activated, and the catalyst activates the Crucible". That's just an example, but it's general speculation there. You could even speculate that the mention of the elevator was lost, or not even included (as the creator wouldn't have assumed there'd be a fight to the death over it, meaning they assumed the elevator would be obvious and therefore overlooked when creating the plans).

Point is, there's nothing to suggest the designers of the Crucible never knew about the elevator.

 

 

2) What I'm saying is if an answer doesn't contradict events in the game, and another does, it's clear to see what one is correct. You can believe anything you want about anything, but if it causes contradictions and plot holes, and there's another explanation that doesn't, you'll have no legs to stand on if you try to dismiss it.

 

 

3) Or, like I said in the post you quoted, the elevator was created for the Keepers.

You're the one saying that it doesn't make sense for the creators of the elevator to create it for something they couldn't possibly know about (the Crucible), and I'm saying that's because they never. That wouldn't make any sense. Chances are it was created for the Keepers, and the Crucible was designed to take control of it.

Even when you tried to say that it makes no sense for it to only be activated for the Crucible, you're the only one saying that. I said, in the post you quoted, that it's for the Keepers, made even more evident by the console in front of it (aka the console the Keepers would use to activate it).

Your logic was backwards. You're attempting to figure out why the creators of the Citadel would create an elevator for something they couldn't possibly know about, when that doesn't make any sense. Chances are the creators of the elevator made it for things they did know about, which was the Keepers. It was the Crucible that was designed to take control of it, not the other way around.

 

 

4) Nonsense. You can't just dismiss something that happens in the game, like the elevator conversation between Shepard and Miranda, as being a gameplay/cutscene inconsistency, yet not apply it to this situation.

You can wait during the conversation with the Catalyst, staring in unblinking silence, and the Crucible wont be destroyed. You can pick all the dialogue options and the Crucible wont be destroyed until a set amount of time after you stop speaking, despite that time being less than the time you spent staring at him. You can skip all the dialogue options and go to making a choice as quickly as possible, but if you don't choose for a set amount of time the Crucible will be destroyed, despite that time being less than the time you spent speaking to the Catalyst.

That alone shows that time is linked to events and dialogue, and not actual time, even in this situation. You could dismiss it if it happened to be inconsistent with the rest of the series, but it's not. Saying that the Crucible couldn't have taken damage due to the time that took place means you'll have to ignore that rule of the series.

The Catalyst never turned off the Crucible, it was deactivated due to damage/non-use. You can't use "real time" to counter that, as time and events are linked to dialogue, not real time.

 

1) Or you could take occam's razor and ask why the Crucible is responsible for everything, and why the Catalyst isn't responsible for anything? I think this whole effort is to try and justify ****** poor writing. I'm saying that you're working too hard to make these ends meet. You really want the Crucible to activate the elevator, so that it somehow justifies the presence of the Catalyst. It doesn't.

 

There's nothing to suggest that they do know about it either. You're making the claim that the builders of the Crucible included in its design *activate that elevator right there*.

 

"That elevator goes somewhere and it does something. We don't know what, since it's in an inaccessible part of the Citadel, but it's vitally important that that elevator's use occur via the Crucible during its activation. We don't even know how we know about it, or why the builders of the Citadel would include an elevator that can only be activated by an alien device that doesn't exist yet and that the builders have no knowledge of."

 

2) There is no contradiction to what I'm saying. And it's very easy to state. Yours is convoluted and as Crutch pointed out, it has a dire flaw. I'm saying that the Catalyst has the ability to deactivate the Crucible. I'm saying that it has control over the elevator. I'm saying that the Catalyst, as the caretaker of the Citadel and master controlling entity of the Reapers, has control of the Citadel and its systems. It's not very convoluted. It's pretty succinct. And, due to the poor writing job by writers who no longer deserve the title, it's inconsistent with the prior series. I'm not saying that my point is contradictory with the series. I'm saying that the writers work is.

 

3) Ok. So it was created for the Keepers. Why can it only be activated by the Crucible then? That's a pretty ****** poor elevator if it doesn't work until a notional alien power source that the creators of the Citadel have no knowledge of or prediction for is added to the Citadel, while said creators of the alien power source would have no knowledge of the elevator since it's located in an inaccessible part of the Citadel (except for a keeper). Your faulty logic is fun! 

 

But yes, this whole argument of mine is based on your claim that the Crucible was somehow designed to take over an elevator (that the people who built the Crucible could not possibly have known about). I'm going to ask: How are you coming up with the claim that the Crucible was designed in part to activate/take over a random elevator that was unknown to anyone but the Keepers and the Catalyst? You're trying too hard with your logic here. Have you ever heard of occam's razor?

 

4) Yes, in this case, I can. As soon as the conversation ends (as you watch it in real time), the crucible is deactivated within seconds of refusing. Also, try shooting the Catalyst: Guess what immediately happens.

 

Yes, the Catalyst is in control of the Crucible's deactivation.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

 

Then counter it.

The justifications, as you put it, that I'm giving you aren't causing any contradictions with the game. In fact all it's doing is solving the problems that arise when people assume it was the Catalyst dong these things.

If one interpretation causes plot holes, and one doesn't, chances are it's not the game that's in the wrong, chances are it's the interpretation.

 

I don't need too. You must first prove it. It's your claim to prove. That's the way of the scientific method. 

 

And I think you're stretching your justifications to cover things by going into the realm of the extremely unlikely.

 

The issue is, the plot holes were created by the writers. Hence why I'm calling it bad writing. It is. It's not something hard or complicated. You're way overthinking it in an attempt to justify it. It doesn't need justification. It needs criticism.

[SwobyJ]

[von uber]

That leads to a multitude of "Why didn't he do this, and that, and this".

The Crucible activating the elevator on the other hand doesn't cause any plot inconsistencies like that, which actually makes it more plausible.

One situation causes contradictions within the plot, the other doesn't.

 

[Mcfly616]

You "think"....


Or...that's just what you want to believe. Hmm this is sorta like those miserable bastards that really really want to believe that Shepard is just a charred corpse taking his last breath in the breathe scene, so that they can just continue spewing their pessimistic venom.


You've already heard a sound and logical explanation from multiple people. If you're going to be standing there with your fingers in your ears, stamping your feet all day, ofcourse there will come a time when all logical explanations have long since past....just keep it up and you'll get what you want.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

That leads to a multitude of "Why didn't he do this, and that, and this".

The Crucible activating the elevator on the other hand doesn't cause any plot inconsistencies like that, which actually makes it more plausible.

One situation causes contradictions within the plot, the other doesn't.

 

Yes, it does. That's on the writers. They f'd up. They did a bad job. And as time is going on and I'm seeing more of the work from the main writer, it's less of a thought that it was a bad screw-up so much as it is the work of an incompetent man in over his head, and who should not be writing for the game in the capacity he's in.

 

You're trying to hard to justify bad writing. Bad writing is bad. That's it.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

You "think"....


Or...that's just what you want to believe. Hmm this is sorta like those miserable bastards that really really want to believe that Shepard is just a charred corpse taking his last breath in the breathe scene, so that they can just continue spewing their pessimistic venom.


You've already heard a sound and logical explanation from multiple people. If you're going to be standing there with your fingers in your ears, stamping your feet all day, ofcourse there will come a time when all logical explanations have long since past....just keep it up and you'll get what you want.

 

You have a known tendency to jab and attack people for holding a perspective you don't like. You have a known tendency to vociferously defend BW, no matter the opinion or critique of their works. You're a guy who hates people who hate the ending. You're a guy who wants to beat them down and tell them to get lost. You're a guy who's going to say exactly what you've just said here for the sake of trying to get the 'haters' to leave. 

 

Why should I take your word seriously?

[SwobyJ]

Here, have some Miranda.

 

[CronoDragoon]

In fact forget all that. How could anyone even infer the holokid's existance?

 

They don't need to infer its existence immediately.

 

Let's put it this way. In Situation A, the Catalyst doesn't open the relay. The Catalyst loses one Reaper, two years of traveling, and we're back. In Situation B, the Catalyst opens the relay himself, the Reapers come through, and that's that. In Situation C, the Catalyst opens the relay, the cycle decides (similar to Liara's hologram) to give the information to the next cycle that the relay seemingly opened on its own, and suddenly the next cycle has a reason to investigate the areas of the Citadel no one accessed before.

 

This doesn't need to be ironclad. If it was, it'd be obvious and essentially canon.

[Mcfly616]

You have a known tendency to jab and attack people for holding a perspective you don't like. You have a known tendency to vociferously defend BW, no matter the opinion or critique of their works. You're a guy who hates people who hate the ending. You're a guy who wants to beat them down and tell them to get lost. You're a guy who's going to say exactly what you've just said here for the sake of trying to get the 'haters' to leave.

Why should I take your word seriously?

you just described yourself to a 'T'. Congrats. Well, except for the 'defending' part. You just hate it. Period. You ridicule anyone who likes it. You're one of those types that takes the opportunity to spew your hate wheneer you see someone compliment the game.


I don't hate people that hate the ending. I laugh at people that make no sense when they're being critical of it. Besides, if I hated everyone that hated the endings, I would hate myself.


You've had numerous logical explanations in the first 2 pages of this thread. You've done nothing to discredit them. In fact, the most asinine thing in this entire thread is you acting as if all the nonsensical explanations you can come up with in your head are just as plausible as the logical explanation. It's quite laughable.


Occams razor is the most logical explanation/simple answer is most likely it. You've been given a logical explanation. Seems you would just prefer it were "DERP BW iz baddd writerz!"

[CrutchCricket]

They don't need to infer its existence immediately.

 

Let's put it this way. In Situation A, the Catalyst doesn't open the relay. The Catalyst loses one Reaper, two years of traveling, and we're back. In Situation B, the Catalyst opens the relay himself, the Reapers come through, and that's that. In Situation C, the Catalyst opens the relay, the cycle decides (similar to Liara's hologram) to give the information to the next cycle that the relay seemingly opened on its own, and suddenly the next cycle has a reason to investigate the areas of the Citadel no one accessed before.

 

This doesn't need to be ironclad. If it was, it'd be obvious and essentially canon.

 

You mean like how Shepard was immediately believed about the Beacon and a full and comprehensive investigation into this Reaper phenomena was launched right away on the Citadel and other relevant Prothean ruins or sites of previous mass extinction? Oh wait.

 

Organics can search the Citadel all they want, they won't find the holokid unless he means to be found, or unless they know enough to search for an AI. And if they know to search for AI they know to build it and it's time to harvest them anyway.

[themikefest]

What activates the ramps that are needed to walk to the left to the control choice and the destroy choice on the right? Catalyst or Crucible?

[The Bad One]

1) Or you could take occam's razor and ask why the Crucible is responsible for everything, and why the Catalyst isn't responsible for anything? I think this whole effort is to try and justify ****** poor writing. I'm saying that you're working too hard to make these ends meet. You really want the Crucible to activate the elevator, so that it somehow justifies the presence of the Catalyst. It doesn't.

 

There's nothing to suggest that they do know about it either. You're making the claim that the builders of the Crucible included in its design *activate that elevator right there*.

 

"That elevator goes somewhere and it does something. We don't know what, since it's in an inaccessible part of the Citadel, but it's vitally important that that elevator's use occur via the Crucible during its activation. We don't even know how we know about it, or why the builders of the Citadel would include an elevator that can only be activated by an alien device that doesn't exist yet and that the builders have no knowledge of."

"Responsible for everything", aka, activating the elevator that leads to the place it needs you to be. What an completely unbelievable thing for a device that can change the universe on an atomic level to do, apparently.

Again you say occams razor, yet occams razor to you means that the builders of the Citadel would create an elevator for something they couldn't of possibly known about.

That's not occams razor.

Occams razor is they built it for something they did know about (the Keepers) and the Crucible was designed to take control of it. It's not about the designers of the Citadel knowing about the Crucible, it's about the designers of the Crucible knowing about the elevator.

Now you're also saying why did they include an elevator that can only be activated by an alien device. So, for the third time:

 

Chances are it was activated by the console directly in front of it. The Crucible also activating the elevator **DOES NOT** mean that the elevator was designed to be used by the Crucible, nor does it mean it can only be activated by the Crucible, it means the **CRUCIBLE** was designed to take control of the elevator. **NOT** the other way around.
 

2) There is no contradiction to what I'm saying. And it's very easy to state. Yours is convoluted and as Crutch pointed out, it has a dire flaw. I'm saying that the Catalyst has the ability to deactivate the Crucible. I'm saying that it has control over the elevator. I'm saying that the Catalyst, as the caretaker of the Citadel and master controlling entity of the Reapers, has control of the Citadel and its systems. It's not very convoluted. It's pretty succinct. And, due to the poor writing job by writers who no longer deserve the title, it's inconsistent with the prior series. I'm not saying that my point is contradictory with the series. I'm saying that the writers work is.

 

No, your assumption that the Catalyst is controlling all of those things is what is causing the inconsistencies. If you assume that the Crucible is controlling those things it doesn't cause those inconsistencies.

 

3) Ok. So it was created for the Keepers. Why can it only be activated by the Crucible then? That's a pretty ****** poor elevator if it doesn't work until a notional alien power source that the creators of the Citadel have no knowledge of or prediction for is added to the Citadel, while said creators of the alien power source would have no knowledge of the elevator since it's located in an inaccessible part of the Citadel (except for a keeper). Your faulty logic is fun!

 

Chances are it was activated by the console directly in front of it. The Crucible also activating the elevator **DOES NOT** mean that the elevator was designed to be used by the Crucible, nor does it mean it can only be activated by the Crucible, it means the **CRUCIBLE** was designed to take control of the elevator. **NOT** the other way around.

 

But yes, this whole argument of mine is based on your claim that the Crucible was somehow designed to take over an elevator (that the people who built the Crucible could not possibly have known about). I'm going to ask: How are you coming up with the claim that the Crucible was designed in part to activate/take over a random elevator that was unknown to anyone but the Keepers and the Catalyst? You're trying too hard with your logic here. Have you ever heard of occam's razor?

 

You are assuming that the designers never knew of the elevator or the Catalyst. There is nothing in the game to suggest that.

Occam's razor would lead you to the possibility that the designers of the Crucible did know about these things. That's how it works.
 

4) Yes, in this case, I can. As soon as the conversation ends (as you watch it in real time), the crucible is deactivated within seconds of refusing. Also, try shooting the Catalyst: Guess what immediately happens.

Yes, the Catalyst is in control of the Crucible's deactivation

You're only proving the point that time is based on dialogue and events, and not actual time, just like it is throughout the series.

Claiming that it happens after, therefore it's the Catalyst's doing, causes contradictions within the plot. Whereas if it happens after because time is linked to dialogue and events, just like it is throughout the series, it doesn't cause contradictions within the plot.

If your interpretation causes contradictions, and another doesn't, it's not the game that's at fault; it's your interpretation.

[SwobyJ]

What activates the ramps that are needed to walk to the left to the control choice and the destroy choice on the right? Catalyst or Crucible?

Shepard.

[SporkFu]

Shepard.

Wrex.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Wrex.

Shepard.

[von uber]

Shepard.

 Wreeeeeex!

[ImaginaryMatter]

Where are you gettting that the Crucible plans make no mention of it. It could have said "The Crucible docks, the devices are activated, and the catalyst activates the Crucible". That's just an example, but it's general speculation there. You could even speculate that the mention of the elevator was lost, or not even included (as the creator wouldn't have assumed there'd be a fight to the death over it, meaning they assumed the elevator would be obvious and therefore overlooked when creating the plans).

Point is, there's nothing to suggest the designers of the Crucible never knew about the elevator.

 

Because all of that information is needed to activate the Crucible, it's important information, without it the Crucible is just a useless heap of metal that can't do anything because it doesn't have a firing mechanism. So important that it seems unlikely anyone would leave it out of the plans or not bring it up during the assault plan. During the briefing, the plan is to basically open the wards and dock the Crucible, like it would fire automatically; they made no plans to activate it after docking, Hackett even seems surprised that it doesn't fire. So that's where I think the story suggests that the whole elevator / decision chamber / sentient AI wasn't included in the Crucible plans that the Organics have. Because no one bringing it up requires everyone to act uncharacteristically stupid, which just brings us back to bad writing.

 

Which leaves the idea that the activation sequence was some how lost or not included for... reasons. That part of the plan getting lost I guess is not impossible but it seems implausible, like the rest of the Crucible's existence. And I can't think of any logical reason why the plans would be left out. Like if the creators inserted some programming to raise a certain elevator, that means they intended that people would use it, right? But the elevator is located in an inaccessible part of the Citadel, a part that the lore repeatedly states is inaccessible and shrouded in mystery, so the way to gain access doesn't seem obvious at all; especially considering the only way to get into the tunnels is through a beam the Reapers use to harvest organics to make a new Reaper.

 

Also, the suggestion that the Crucible creators knew of the elevator means they knew about the decision chamber, since that's where the elevator goes to. The activation mechanisms though are shooting a tube, touching high voltage, or jumping into a beam of energy. None of these are straight forward activating mechanisms, quite the opposite, they're all danger hazards and far from being obvious; so you think they would have included a memo -- or did they asume the Catalyst would give away all the answers. The lost plans again seem like the most sensible option but it's not an obvious one and it raises the questions like how anyone found out about this in the first place.

 

This is where the suggestion comes in, the implausibility of all these events and all this speculating and handwaving I think serves as suggestion enough that indeed the Crucible creators did in fact not know about it. Compared to your suggestion that they did know about it because of the elevator rose after the Crucible docked the two seem pretty equal in validity, they're all a bunch of speculation. Of course there does seem to be some double standard in this, weren't you talking to Massively about this very thing in relation to the Crucible turning off after the Shepard's speech in the Refuse ending; about how two events occurring adjacent to each other doesn't mean anything?

 

Again I think the answer is that the authors never considered any of this. These are the same guys who afterall didn't think about the implications about the Relays blowing up and the galactic dark age, about teleporting squadmates, who apparently thought that a new central conflict and revelation about the Reapers could be fit into 14 lines of dialogue. This just seems to be another implication that they didn't think about.

[The Bad One]

Because all of that information is needed to activate the Crucible, it's important information, without it the Crucible is just a useless heap of metal that can't do anything because it doesn't have a firing mechanism. So important that it seems unlikely anyone would leave it out of the plans or not bring it up during the assault plan. During the briefing, the plan is to basically open the wards and dock the Crucible, like it would fire automatically; they made no plans to activate it after docking, Hackett even seems surprised that it doesn't fire. So that's where I think the story suggests that the whole elevator / decision chamber / sentient AI wasn't included in the Crucible plans that the Organics have. Because no one bringing it up requires everyone to act uncharacteristically stupid, which just brings us back to bad writing.

 

Which leaves the idea that the activation sequence was some how lost or not included for... reasons. That part of the plan getting lost I guess is not impossible but it seems implausible, like the rest of the Crucible's existence. And I can't think of any logical reason why the plans would be left out. Like if the creators inserted some programming to raise a certain elevator, that means they intended that people would use it, right? But the elevator is located in an inaccessible part of the Citadel, a part that the lore repeatedly states is inaccessible and shrouded in mystery, so the way to gain access doesn't seem obvious at all; especially considering the only way to get into the tunnels is through a beam the Reapers use to harvest organics to make a new Reaper.

 

Also, the suggestion that the Crucible creators knew of the elevator means they knew about the decision chamber, since that's where the elevator goes to. The activation mechanisms though are shooting a tube, touching high voltage, or jumping into a beam of energy. None of these are straight forward activating mechanisms, quite the opposite, they're all danger hazards and far from being obvious; so you think they would have included a memo -- or did they asume the Catalyst would give away all the answers. The lost plans again seem like the most sensible option but it's not an obvious one and it raises the questions like how anyone found out about this in the first place.

 

This is where the suggestion comes in, the implausibility of all these events and all this speculating and handwaving I think serves as suggestion enough that indeed the Crucible creators did in fact not know about it. Compared to your suggestion that they did know about it because of the elevator rose after the Crucible docked the two seem pretty equal in validity, they're all a bunch of speculation. Of course there does seem to be some double standard in this, weren't you talking to Massively about this very thing in relation to the Crucible turning off after the Shepard's speech in the Refuse ending; about how two events occurring adjacent to each other doesn't mean anything?

 

Again I think the answer is that the authors never considered any of this. These are the same guys who afterall didn't think about the implications about the Relays blowing up and the galactic dark age, about teleporting squadmates, who apparently thought that a new central conflict and revelation about the Reapers could be fit into 14 lines of dialogue. This just seems to be another implication that they didn't think about.

 

I wont need to chop this up individually because it's basically just one long point, rather than a bunch of individual ones.

 

Your first part is that you find it implausible, but not impossible. That's fine.

 

Your second part, about the activation, you question whether or not they would assume the Catalyst would give all the answers. Well we know from the end that the Crucible forces him to give the answers. He states it changed him (altered his programming in other words) so it not only allows Shepard to chose, it allows Shepard to replace it or even destroy it, despite it not wanting either of those things. Even if destroy is the only option the Catalyst is forced to tell you about it.

That would mean that the designers never assumed the Catalyst would give all the answers, it would most likely mean the designers knew the Catalyst would give all the answers, seeing as though they designed the Crucible to alter its programming.

You say the two suggestions are equal in validity, as they're both speculation, but when it comes down to it one suggestion is implausible but not impossible and doesn't cause contradictions within the plot, and one does. If the Catalyst could control its surroundings then why didn't it (do this and that, contradictions with Sovereign arises, etc, etc), whereas if it wasn't the Catalyst controlling those things and was instead a function of the Crucible, those contradictions and inconsistencies aren't present. That alone suggests they aren't equal in validity.

You don't have to believe one or the other, but if your interpretations causes inconsistencies that another interpretations solves, then it's not a problem with the work, it's a problem with the interpretation.

[von uber]

Bollocks. It's plainly the fact that the didn't think it through and thought 'ooh, an elevator suddenly appearing, that'll be cool'.

They gave no thought whatsoever to who controlled it; like they didn't for who actually built the three options.

If they had, then this thread wouldn't exist as it would be logically explained within the bloody game.

[The Bad One]

Bollocks. It's plainly the fact that the didn't think it through and thought 'ooh, an elevator suddenly appearing, that'll be cool'.

They gave no thought whatsoever to who controlled it; like they didn't for who actually built the three options.

If they had, then this thread wouldn't exist as it would be logically explained within the bloody game.

 

That's not a counter argument. For example:

They did think it through, they just never realised people would assume it's the Catalyst controling the elevator rather than the Crucible (which docks mere moments prior) as they thought it would be obvious, especially as the Catalyst exerts no other control over the Citadel and, if it did, it would contradict events in the series.

We could get into an argument about this, but I wont, because what's said there is irrelevant. We could argue until the cows come home about what the authors were intending/expected/thought, but that wouldn't actually change anything that happens within the game. Maybe it was a pure fluke that it doesn't contradict itself, or maybe it's because they thought it through, it doesn't matter. What matters is that the rising elevator being a function of the Crucible doesn't cause contradiction within the plot, whereas the rising elevator being an action of the Catalyst does.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

@ Bad One: To be frank, it's crap. You've come up with a solution that, in the two years that the game has been out, no one else has seen. No statements or evidence exist from the creators of Mass Effect that support your interpretation. In fact your very ideal of 'interpretation' is wrong. 

 

You're overthinking the entire premise to justify it. BW did not put that kind of effort into the ending. And you're making a claim that since it can't be inherently disproven, in lieu of truth it must be true. It's not. 

 

Everything you said to me wasn't on me; It was on you. My claim is based on what is the simplest to see. BW didn't put effort into their ending. It doesn't reconcile with the existing problems of the prior Reapers in ME1 and ME2. Everything I said was basically what you've been saying, and I'm pointing out the lack of logic on what you've been saying. You've either been misinterpreting me or twisting my words, but you were turning it back on me and saying I was responsible for it.

 

You aren't making the theory fit the evidence, you're making evidence (as well as the evidence) to fit your theory. As I said, you're also using the clarification fallacy: You really can't be proved right. You're just saying you are right because you can't be proved wrong either.

 

@ McFly: ... Really? Really... So it's just me then. I see. 

[themikefest]

Too bad Shepard didn't pass out 10 feet to the left or right of the platform.. Of course I wouldn't be surprised if there's another platform that would float up with Shepard.