19 réponses à ce sujet

[Mistress9Nine]

I don't know it this has been discussed or confirmed (did a quick search and didn't find anything), but one of the major things that bugged me in Dragon Age II was the whole loot system, more specifically the type of loot available,

 

In Baldur's Gate almost all loot was useful. It was worth saving every drop, becuse there could be a minor fetch quest around the corner requiring 5 Onyx Stones, or some mage requesting Skeleton Bones for an experiment. It was worth picking up even the random loot. In DAO the "Quest Item" category was added to distinguish items that might seem random, but were actually parts of quests, so you couldn't drop them of sell them. While this was rather metagame information, IMO it removed some frustration for players who would otherwise have been stuck because the sold some innocuous item. I think this was the perfect system, simplified enough for minimal hassle, and maximum enjoyment.

 

Then came DAII and took too far in my opinion with the whole "Trash" category and to some extent with the equipment. The trash category to me seemed extremely silly to include. Why would anyone pick up trash? They served no purpose,  don't think anyone ever needed to navigate to that screen of the inventory menu. You even had a "Sell junk" button, so you would never have to go there. I think once a game takes it this far, they might as well go the route of games where these junk items are just there for flavour, but once you pick it up, it turns into coin (the Bard's Tale comes to mind, where all he loot you picked up just translated to gold instantaneously. This in-between system just doesn't do it for me an seems rather pointless.

 

I can acknowledge the fact that broken shards and spider mandibles are better for setting than just adding gold drops to every critter. This isn't Diablo, and it shouldn't be. Still, if you aren't going to give any purpose to these items that you spen t implementing, you might as well just skip it. I would love it if BioWare brought back the purpose to all items.

 

Is it just me, do others like this system? I'm not a developer, so IDK if either version requires more resources for implementation, so I'm just looking at this from a player perspective.

[DooomCookie]

I was thinking of making a post about this actually.    The amount of loot in DA2 was excessive and the junk category made the whole thing feel very bare bones.  Personally, I don't find a few 'flavour' items that can be sold for gold (wolf pelts, gems, silk rugs) and a bit of inventory sorting can be fun after a long trip.  But DA2 took all the interest out of it and drenched you in explicitly labelled trash items.

[Mirrman70]

DAO had a junk section and a sell junk button too. you just had to put things there manually.

[Darth Krytie]

I made a post about loot here: http://forum.bioware...39-better-loot/  But it's pages back...

[Pleonast]

I agree that it was a bit disheartening in DA2 to be constantly selling off armour that was sometimes better/more suited to a certain fight than what the companions were already wearing, but I didn't mind the loot. Selling it off was easy, and it gave a bit of extra gold.

[AlanC9]

 
In Baldur's Gate almost all loot was useful. It was worth saving every drop, becuse there could be a minor fetch quest around the corner requiring 5 Onyx Stones, or some mage requesting Skeleton Bones for an experiment.
 

Wait, what? In BG enemies dropped a lot of equipment that was useless for anything except selling.

[In Exile]

Then came DAII and took too far in my opinion with the whole "Trash" category and to some extent with the equipment. The trash category to me seemed extremely silly to include. Why would anyone pick up trash? They served no purpose,  don't think anyone ever needed to navigate to that screen of the inventory menu. You even had a "Sell junk" button, so you would never have to go there. I think once a game takes it this far, they might as well go the route of games where these junk items are just there for flavour, but once you pick it up, it turns into coin (the Bard's Tale comes to mind, where all he loot you picked up just translated to gold instantaneously. This in-between system just doesn't do it for me an seems rather pointless.

Most loot is garbage. And I don't mean in the sense that it's not useful. I mean most actual things we loot in the game are actual garbage, with the exception of things we steal from the people we kill or the stuff we take robbing graves. The stuff in BG2 just meant you had to hoard everything like a lunatic because you couldn't predict the future and sometimes someone would offer you money (and more importantly XP) for what you found under the toilet in some mage's hut. 

 

DA:O had everyone carrying random garbage in case it was going to be useful. Only it turned out to just be random garbage. 

[Hiemoth]

Yeah, I am also kind of surprised by the claim that most of the loot in BG series was useful, as I did not really experience the game that way. And DAO has that same problem at one task, when you need to collect those damn garnets, which are not being sold anywhere. I forgot about them and, not surprisingly, am utterly frustrated by them in my current playthrough.

 

I am torn on DA2 approach. In a way I appreciated it, as it was honest about the purpose of the loot and it made it easy to sell with one click instead of worrying about needing it at a later time. However, the approach made it really difficult to at least estimate the value of the trash loot and whetever it was worth carrying around.

 

My larger problem with the loot system in DA2 was with the constantly evolving weapons and armor. I understand why they went with that route, and in a way it was just a continuation of the DAO system of evolving materials. However, it also highlighted my eternal problem with such a loot system, as that mythical weapon from the beginning of the weapon soon came useless compared to the stuff carried by regular street thugs.

[AlanC9]

However, it also highlighted my eternal problem with such a loot system, as that mythical weapon from the beginning of the weapon soon came useless compared to the stuff carried by regular street thugs.

Ever play a TES game?

[Hiemoth]

Ever play a TES game?

 

Not really, although I recall it also relying on the loot system. To be truthful, I have never been a friend of the loot system and was really happy when ME2 switched away from it. Especially since of the inherent problems with the system in ME1.

 

I actually do understand the underlying problem with the system in DA2, which was that it was the same location at different times, which made it difficult to not have the actual encounters in the are develop. Yet it did create those weird situation, my favorite was finding a better armor from a street thug than the Armor of the Champion.

I'm really hoping Bioware will move away from the loot system in DAI or even revamp it to give more weight to the mythical equipment.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DAO had a junk section and a sell junk button too. you just had to put things there manually.

That would be better.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DA:O had everyone carrying random garbage in case it was going to be useful. Only it turned out to just be random garbage.

Does it matter, though, if it turns out to be garbage? To me, the issue is that it isn't identified as garbage. As long as that's true, it serves the same gameplay purpose as loot that is actually useful.

And that's what I want. I want the loot to provide an opportunity to make a decision about what to keep amd what to sell. Loot labelled as junk doesn't do that, but unlabelled junk does.

[Mistress9Nine]

The stuff in BG2 just meant you had to hoard everything like a lunatic because you couldn't predict the future and sometimes someone would offer you money (and more importantly XP) for what you found under the toilet in some mage's hut. 

 

But since you can notce this system quite early on in both games you can prepare. I just sold everything to Bodhan / The Adventurer's Mart in these games and never had a second thought about selling something since I could always buy it back.

[In Exile]

Does it matter, though, if it turns out to be garbage? To me, the issue is that it isn't identified as garbage. As long as that's true, it serves the same gameplay purpose as loot that is actually useful.

And that's what I want. I want the loot to provide an opportunity to make a decision about what to keep amd what to sell. Loot labelled as junk doesn't do that, but unlabelled junk does.

 

I don't disagree with you in the abstract - my problem is that I don't think the decision should really be based around "will this item be useful in a future quest" or not but rather that the item should have some independent use/value beyond that, and your real choice should be  "will I use this  in e.g.crafting vs. save it if I think I need to for a future quest"? 

 

Basically, I don't like having useless clutter inventory. 

 

 

But since you can notce this system quite early on in both games you can prepare. I just sold everything to Bodhan / The Adventurer's Mart in these games and never had a second thought about selling something since I could always buy it back.

 

I have a bit of an aversion to selling things since I'm used to JRPGs (since I played those before cRPGs) were items you sell disappear into an ether. 

[AlanC9]

Not really, although I recall it also relying on the loot system. To be truthful, I have never been a friend of the loot system and was really happy when ME2 switched away from it. Especially since of the inherent problems with the system in ME1.

 

I actually do understand the underlying problem with the system in DA2, which was that it was the same location at different times, which made it difficult to not have the actual encounters in the are develop. Yet it did create those weird situation, my favorite was finding a better armor from a street thug than the Armor of the Champion.

I'm really hoping Bioware will move away from the loot system in DAI or even revamp it to give more weight to the mythical equipment.

 

I brought up the TES games because they take the problem to absurd heights. Though I guess it's no worse than DA2 if you can get a random drop that is better than the Champion set. I haven't had that issue. If anything, I've found that Hawke might as well be using the companion armor system because the chapter sets are better than anything else I come across.

[HunterX6]

As long a we can keep buying backpack and have a chest in the game I am good, though I don't want them to add the junks from DA 2, there was no point in them. I even found a ancient elf tome, templar golden things,etc and they were considered "junk"

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't disagree with you in the abstract - my problem is that I don't think the decision should really be based around "will this item be useful in a future quest" or not but rather that the item should have some independent use/value beyond that, and your real choice should be "will I use this in e.g.crafting vs. save it if I think I need to for a future quest"?

Basically, I don't like having useless clutter inventory.

That's fair. Though I think the solution is to make everything useful for crafting.

[AlanC9]

As long a we can keep buying backpack and have a chest in the game I am good, though I don't want them to add the junks from DA 2, there was no point in them. I even found a ancient elf tome, templar golden things,etc and they were considered "junk"

"Junk" just means an item of no practical use to Hawke. All RPGs have had this sort of thing, typically non-magical jewelry and gems. DA2 did seem to be making fun of the whole business, though.

[In Exile]

That's fair. Though I think the solution is to make everything useful for crafting.

 

Yes. That's what I think too. Items could just be broken down to raw materials. 

[Mistress9Nine]

I would actually just appreciate if they brought the old system back, though that is mostly based on the fact that I despise all intricate crafting. I loved the dumbed down version in DA:II and was OK with the system in DAO. As long as it doesn't reach TES levels I'm OK with crafting.* But this is really just my personal opinion and not really a make or break issue.

 

*my real issue, just to explain, is that you are forced to craft, if you want the best available equipment. I much prefer items with lore and stuff that you find. Reforging a fabled sword is OK, but me just forging an all powerful wooden dagger that destroys all man kind just because my Smithing level is over 9000 is redicilous.