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[TheShizno]

New: Final product of this thread

 

 

 

Old:

I am making a dragon age lore series on YouTube and the next episode should be about the Chantry.

Do you guys have any interesting, little known facts about the chantry that I could use? 

 

 

First draft 2AM:

 

                Religion is the driving force behind the politics and history of every nation across Thedas, because Empires and kingdoms are willing to wage wars about the pivot points of their faiths and believes. But no religous organization on the continent has probably had as much impact on the people as the Chantry. Spreading across most of the continent, the Chantrys belief in the Maker, the supreme being who created the World and the people, has started wars that changed the world utterly.

                Andraste, the Makers prophet, was a woman born outside of royal circles, into a once small village called Denerim.  In her youth she used to suffer through nightmares, which she later came to interpret as the call of the Maker, who had abandoned his children after they tainted his City and started to worship the Old Gods.

                According to the Chantry the Maker has given the people of Thedas another chance when he fell in love with Andraste and the songs she sang for him. He offered to take pluck her from the mortal realm and make her his bride. But she refused. Unwilling to leave her life and husband Maferath behind she begged the Maker to return to his people and the reform the world into a new paradise. The Maker agreed under the condition, that Andraste changes the hearts of the people and convinces them to give up false believes and worships.

                Andraste has thus began to preach the word of the maker to the people. Her core teachings were later summarized, by her desciples, in the Chant of Light, the most holy religious book of the Chantry.  In it, it is written that it was the Tevinter mages that brought the darkspawn into thedas- a terrible price they had to pay for tainting the Golden city with their pride. Until all people would unite to praise the Maker and repent, he would not forgive them. Because of this, Andraste preached that magic must serve man, not rule over him- an idea attractive to the people opressed by the Tevinter Impirum, who at the time justified their actions with the teachings of the Old Gods.

                People, seeing her as a leader who can bring end to their suffering, followed her on her quest and rebelled against Tevinter. The news of miraculous victories over the opressors, as well as Andrastes teachings, spread across Thedas rapidly. With both of her husbands at her side, she grew stronger both in power and resolve. Her and Maferath, now a general, managed to fight their way into Minrathous, the capital of the Impirium, where they achieved a big victory. The dissonant verses, verses removed from the Chant of Light, also speak of Shartan- an elven Tevinter slave who rallied others of his kind to aid Andraste. For their help they were later given the Dales.

 

                Despite Mafertahs bravery however, the Chantry says that he grew jealous of the Maker and made a secret pact with Archon Hessarian- a truce in exchange for Andrastes capture. She was burned alive in front of a crowd as a threat to all others who would oppose the Imperium. Because of this, fire is of great importance to the chantry. If you went to just about any temple of the church, you would find a lit brazier in her memory. The more zealous members also ritually burn themselves on rare occasions and the dead are always cremated.

                After her death, a group of Andrastes disciples managed to smuggle her ashes out of the Tevinter capital, but the ashes were lost along the way. The lands conquered by Andraste now belonged to her jealous ex-husband Maferath. The betrayal was well hidden, but only until Hessarian had a change of heart and publicly converted to belief in the Maker, started the religious transformation of the Imperium and exposed the betrayal. Maferath was then overthrown by his own sons, who divided the lands and founded the nations knows as Orlais, Nevarra and Ferelden.

                According to the chantry the Maker has once again abandoned his people after the death of his wife, who is now sitting by his side, watching over Thedas. Following her death, the religion had no clear leader and was scattered across the continent until Kordillus Drakon, the first emperor of Orlais, founded the Chantry and ministered the Chant of Light. He then further increased the influence of the Chantry during the second Blight, while expanding the Orlesian Empire. For his achievements he was declared „Anointed“- a rare title given only to people who are seen as the hands of the Maker.

                During its existance the Chantry has established many organizations- most notable of which are the Antivan Crows, Seekers of Truth, Templars, Circle of Magi and the Inquisition. With its political influence the Chantry can now declar Exalted Marches- religious crusades against the opposers of the church. First one is considered to be that of Andraste. Since then there has been one against the elves of Dales, four against the Imperial Chantry, which has separated because they questioned Andrastes holyness, and three more against the Qunari.

[Moghedia]

It sounds cool mate, good luck with it. Maybe you should put a link to it when its completed.

[dragonflight288]

Hmm, you might want to get into the founding of the Chantry and how it helped build the entire country of Oralis from a city-state through a series of Exalted Marches. Or that Andraste didn't found the Chantry, or even the concept of the Maker, but preached for a return to the worship of the Maker, meaning it's not the first time the Maker was revered, probably before the time of the Tevinter Imperium.

 

After all, the second sin of man was Pride by entering the Golden City, the original and first sin was abandoning the Maker and worshipping false gods, the Old Gods. 

 

The Dissonant Verses would also be something to talk about. Alongside how the Chantry believes the Maker will return when the Chant is sung from all corners of the world. 

 

Now, we can't discuss the Chantry without discussing Andraste, so the miracle (or as Oghren says in Origins, probably lyrium-influenced) healing power of the ashes must also be taken into account, along with the evidence that implies Andraste was a mage (no proof, but there's enough there to make a convincing argument. It could go either way.)

 

The templars and the seekers were the original Inquisition and joined with the Chantry, and King Drakon is given credit for their formation, so it's probably that Orlais had a hand in uniting the old inquisition with his chosen Andrastin Cult. 

 

Also, Andrastians don't necessarily have to be part of the Chantry. Take the Dragon Cult in Haven. They predate the Chantry, had Revered Fathers, had no problems with mages, but their teachings were corrupted over time and they forgot the Maker completely. 

 

There's a lot more, but that's what I thought of at the top of my head. 

[TheShizno]

It sounds cool mate, good luck with it. Maybe you should put a link to it when its completed.

Well I did a few already. The last one was about the grey wardens:https://www.youtube....zq1tqOi7pp50uZE

The thing is I usually use info from Codex, World of Thedas book and the Wiki, but there might still be some delicious stuff out there :3

[TheShizno]

Hmm, you might want to get into the founding of the Chantry ....

...There's a lot more, but that's what I thought of at the top of my head. 

My previous episodes were very much just about facts (grey wardens, darkspawn, qunari, dwarves, elves- most of these were just about culture, tradition... darkspawn creation had a bit speculation, but apart from that mostly facts), but when it comes to the Chantry there is just so much backstory that isnt clear, that I am not sure how to approach this. 

I could list the historical events, but all of those could be disputed by things people outside of the church say so I still have to figure out how to do this particular episode.

[Wolfen09]

go look at the dissonant versus thread, quite a few interesting thoughts in there

[The Ascendant]

Looking forward, especially towards its relationship with Orlais and Tevinter. The Chantry is the dominant religion in Thedas and one of the most, if not the most wealthy and powerful organisations in the game. It's history is both interesting and complex.  

[dragonflight288]

My previous episodes were very much just about facts (grey wardens, darkspawn, qunari, dwarves, elves- most of these were just about culture, tradition... darkspawn creation had a bit speculation, but apart from that mostly facts), but when it comes to the Chantry there is just so much backstory that isnt clear, that I am not sure how to approach this. 

I could list the historical events, but all of those could be disputed by things people outside of the church say so I still have to figure out how to do this particular episode.

 

Ah. Well, we could look at the history of the chantry codex entries. That's generally accepted as truth. Other events, like the war with the Dales and Orlais has multiple viewpoints, some paint the chantry and Orlais in a positive light, others do not so it's hard to know which is the correct one. 

 

I know Alistair at Ostagar says that when it comes to the origin of darkspawn, he says that the truth and the Chantry's version is seldom the same, but he's also kind of biased based on his experiences as a templar recruit and how all his choices were being made for him his whole life, whether by Eamon, the Grand Cleric or so on. So he's probably not the most reliable source.

 

If we're just discussing the Chantry as a whole, and not focusing on Andraste, we probably don't need to mention the temple in Haven save that it's the final resting place of Andraste. 

 

But for the Chantry itself, I would use its history in the codexes, its history of siding with Orlais whenever Orlais gets involved in a serious conflict, as can be seen in the novel Stolen Throne, the war with the Dales, and I suppose the rumors that they were getting involved with Kirkwall in favor of trade for Orlais and that's why the Viscount before Dumar tried to evict the templars (although I'm not sure what the sources are for that bit, so I may simply be misremembering that bit.) I would also consider taking some of Leliana's dialogues with party members in Origins. Like how she debates with Wynne on her beliefs and how she came to know the Maker before she heard the Chant, and had a hard time dealing with the priests constantly correcting her for missaying the Chant, and Wynne says that the Chantry believes that the Chant must be spread to all corners of the world before the Maker returns, and so they dislike it when anyone messes up the Chant. 

 

I think it's also important to note that when the Chantry declares an Exalted March, it's not necessarily all the templars of all nations gathering together as a great army. It's usually just in the local area. For example, the Exalted March in Rivain because of the Llmarryn Accord with the Qunari was all local Chantry members and the faithful, and the soldiers of Orlais, Ferelden, Nevarra and so on weren't involved with that slaughter. The only time I can think of where the codexes say that the Exalted Marches were a union of nations is the four exalted marches on Tevinter which all failed, or the wars with the Qunari. Beyond that, it's local. 

 

It might also be interesting to note that while the Seekers and the Templars are part of the Chantry and are subservient to the Divine, they are also an independent organization thanks to the Nevarran Accord which allowed them to break away from the Chantry when it was declared void as it what happened in Asunder. 

[SerCambria358]

Exalted Marches 

[Wolfen09]

@dragon

 

The last bit there is a very good idea, maybe try to touch on the past inquisition and the accord more...  it is very significant in terms of political history of the chantry, not a theological history... 

[Senya]

I think it is important to note that the Chantry didn't declare Drakon's Exalted Marches. Drakon did himself. It seems he ceded that power sometime with the crowning of the first Divine.

 

The Exalted March on the Dales was also not declared until the elves reached/sacked Val Royeaux: http://dragonage.wik...Exalted_Marches

[dragonflight288]

Something else to consider is that the Chantry only has female priestesses who can do various Rites or have full priveleges in the Chantry. 

 

Elthina made it clear that Sebastian could't do everything a female priest could, but he did lead the chant a few times and could take confessions. 

 

It would be fascinating to look into why only women are fully ordained in the Chantry, but not necessarily in other Andrastian traditions (Haven)

[Master Warder Z_]

along with the evidence that implies Andraste was a mage (no proof, but there's enough there to make a convincing argument. It could go either way.)

 

 

The only Evidence in game was a "historical" treatise on the subject, There is no "evidence".

 

And i have never seen a convincing argument for Andraste being a mage.

 

You don't need to be a mage to work with Lyrium by the way.

[dragonflight288]

The only Evidence in game was a "historical" treatise on the subject, There is no "evidence".

 

And i have never seen a convincing argument for Andraste being a mage.

 

You don't need to be a mage to work with Lyrium by the way.

 

http://social.biowar...11979803-1.html

 

Ethereal Writer Redux presents a lot of evidence. Here's his direct quote. 

 

 

 

First, we have the book that's a gift for Wynne, which was cast into a fire no doubt for being something deemed heretical to the popular belief of Andraste. How it ended up in Orzammar I don't know. Maybe the Dwarves found it and wanted to hold onto it, should they need to use the information it presents as leverage against the Chantry.

Second, we have the mystic blade entitled Glandivalis by Shartan. One of the abilities this blade is imbued with is the power to possibly take control of an enemy in battle. It's obviously blood magic.

Third, the Guardian himself says that Andraste would often spend days at a time meditating without food or water. A pair of boots obtainable in Witch Hunt I believe says that a mage of the Antivan Circle would often traverse the Fade for days on end as a hobby (to which she was subsequently misbranded as dead and buried alive). 
 
Fourth, we have a statue from the Temple that was built after Andraste's death by her faithful followers with a very odd placement for the flames that light the area:



There might be more.

EDIT: Let's not forget that the stories claim that the powers of the Maker were on Andraste's side. That of fire and hail, storms and floods, drought and gusts, etc.

Whether she actually had any contact with the Maker is unknown, for now. She may never have really had anything to do with Him -- if He even exists -- or she may have been His Prophet all along.

 

The photo doesn't show up with the new format, so I'll post it myself.

 

 

 

That statue is Andraste, and the urn below it is her Ashes. Rather a curious place to put the flame considering the whole temple was built by those who knew her personally, like the Guardian.

 

If you have a high enough cunning (I had 26 today and got it) he'll admit he is the last of her First Disciples, he knew her personally, and he was one of those who brought her remains from Tevinter to the mountains in Ferelden. 

 

EDIT: I never said that yo have to be a mage to work with lyrium. Rather, the opposite is true because a mage, or any surfacer can't go anywhere near unprocessed lyrium. You have to be tranquil or a dwarf to work with unprocessed lyrium. 

 

Why bring it up? I never mentioned lyrium, and this thread is to help Shizno gather lore on the Chantry for his next youtube video and try to stick as close to the facts as we can. 

Modifié par dragonflight288, 16 avril 2014 - 07:29 .

[dragonflight288]

^{Shizno, you may also wish to use the codex on the Chantry Hierarchy, and the Thedas Calendar.} 

[dragonflight288]

Codex: Founding of the Chantry

 

Kordilius [sic] Drakon, king of the city-state of Orlais, was a man of uncommon ambition. In the year -15 Ancient, the young king began construction of a great temple dedicated to the Maker, and declared that by its completion he would not only have united the warring city-states of the south, he would have brought Andrastian belief to the world.

In -3 Ancient, the temple was completed. There, in its heart, Drakon knelt before the eternal flame of Andraste and was crowned ruler of the Empire of Orlais. His first act as Emperor: To declare the Chantry as the established Andrastian religion of the Empire.

It took three years and several hundred votes before Olessa of Montsimmard was elected to lead the new Chantry. Upon her coronation as Divine, she took the name Justinia, in honor of the disciple who recorded Andraste's songs. In that moment, the ancient era ended and the Divine Age began.

--From Ferelden: Folklore and History, by Sister Petrine, Chantry scholar.

[Wolfen09]

Flemeth = andraste anyone?

[Master Warder Z_]

http://social.biowar...11979803-1.html

 

Ethereal Writer Redux presents a lot of evidence. Here's his direct quote. 

 

 

A lot of conjecture you mean.

 

I mentioned that book, Its about the only true piece of in game "evidence" that supports that notion.

 

Shartan's Blade may or may not have been gifted via Andraste. Also given that he was waging a slave revolt in the Imperium, Aka the capital of blood magic of the world, it could have easily been a conquest from a Magister. Even if it came from Her, that doesn't mean she forged it, and she did have Mages in her employee so even if it did have "blood magic" it hardly had to come directly from her.

 

A lot of religious require fasting during Meditation, The tears of Andraste actually mention this and how she would only take a single sip of water a day before returning to it and how her earthly husband collected her tears. That doesn't equate with traversing the fade.

 

The placement and features of a statue she had no part in building is proof now?

 

The statement of unprocessed Lyrium doesn't matter here, I meant obviously in so far as PROCESSED ORE.

 

The kind used in enchanting, rituals, and etc.

 

And i brought it up because people equate Lyrium in that mountain as the reasoning for their abilities, and i point out that the essence of magic is in so far instrinically linked to Magi, It can be used by near any one with the ability and tolerance to work with it.

 

 

this thread is to help Shizno gather lore on the Chantry for his next youtube video and try to stick as close to the facts as we can. 

 

 

I am aware which is why i am presenting the case for just how flimsy this train of thought IS.

 

There is nothing close to resembling "fact" here.

[Wolfen09]

so what does our lyrium addled templar maniac have to say on this topic besides how every conjecture with no definitive proof is wrong?

[dragonflight288]

Shizno, the funeral rites of the Chantry is cremation. This is because Andraste was burned at the stake in Minrathous, and as she was given to the flame, so too will all her followers upon death. 

 

source: http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Chantry under the section  Practices. 

 

Also, Codex: Andraste; Bride of the Maker

 

There was once a tiny fishing village on the Waking Sea that was set upon by the Tevinter Imperium, which enslaved the villagers to be sold in the markets of Minrathous, leaving behind only the old and the infirm. One of the captives was the child Andraste.

She was raised in slavery in a foreign land. She escaped, then made the long and treacherous journey back to her homeland alone. She rose from nothing to be the wife of an Alamarriwarlord.

Each day she sang to the gods, asking them to help her people who remained slaves in Tevinter. The false gods of the mountains and the winds did not answer her, but the true god did.

The Maker spoke. He showed her all the works of His hands: the Fade, the world, and all the creatures therein. He showed her how men had forgotten Him, lavishing devotion upon mute idols and demons, and how He had left them to their fate. But her voice had reached Him, and so captivated Him that He offered her a place at His side, that she might rule all of creation.

But Andraste would not forsake her people.

She begged the Maker to return, to save His children from the cruelty of the Imperium. Reluctantly, the Maker agreed to give man another chance.

Andraste went back to her husband, Maferath, and told him all that the Maker had revealed to her. Together, they rallied the Alamarri and marched forth against the mage-lords of the Imperium, and the Maker was with them.

The Maker's sword was creation itself: fire and flood, famine and earthquake. Everywhere they went, Andraste sang to the people of the Maker, and they heard her. The ranks of Andraste's followers grew until they were a vast tide washing over the Imperium. And when Maferath saw that the people loved Andraste and not him, a worm grew within his heart, gnawing upon it.

At last, the armies of Andraste and Maferath stood before the very gates of Minrathous, but Andraste was not with them.

For Maferath had schemed in secret to hand Andraste over to the Tevinter. For this, the archon would give Maferath all the lands to the south of the Waking Sea.

And so, before all the armies of the Alamarri and of Tevinter, Andraste was tied to a stake and burned while her earthly husband turned his armies aside and did nothing, for his heart had been devoured. But as he watched the pyre, the archon softened. He took pity on Andraste, and drew his sword, and granted her the mercy of a quick death.

The Maker wept for His Beloved, cursed Maferath, cursed mankind for their betrayal, and turned once again from creation, taking only Andraste with him. And Our Lady sits still at his side, where she still urges Him to take pity on His children.

--From The Sermons of Justinia II.

[The Ascendant]

Every bro knows the wife of another bro is off limits. Not cool Maker. Not cool.

[Master Warder Z_]

so what does our lyrium addled templar maniac have to say on this topic besides how every conjecture with no definitive proof is wrong?

 

O_o I said flimsy, with little to no backing.

 

Not wrong.

 

Conjecture can be absolutely correct, especially when it comes to fantasy settings.

 

I just also point out, there is any evidence to speak of.

[Wolfen09]

if all you are trying to do is point these things out, then do it nicely and not so.... templarish?

[dragonflight288]

Guys, I'm sure Shinzo would appreciate it if we spent less time arguing about semantics and intonation and more time providing him sources on the Chantry's beliefs, lore, and in-game facts.

 

When I first saw this thread, I jumped in to offer suggestions, then I watched one of his videos on youtube about dwarven lore and saw what he was doing was taking the various codex entries, reading them aloud and organizing them in such a way as to follow the timeline. It's the various factions beliefs, their lore, and their history. 

 

He's done segments on the dwarves, elves, qunari and even the geography of Thedas. After watching his video, I simply started providing the codex's as they appear. 

 

Let's not fight and simply try to help him gather lore on the Chantry. 

[TheShizno]

A lot of nice suggestions thank you guys.

I will probably get around to doing this next week as I have a lot to do for college now, but I am very grateful for your help so far (especially dragonflight ).

As for the format of the series- I liked the style where I organized the codex entries and read them as a story of sorts, but a many people said they prefer the format I am doing now, which is basically almost like a powerpoint style presentation/lecture. And I can understand that, because it makes it easier to follow. But I think, that for the chantry episode the first format would be better- or maybe a merge of the two.