55 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

A lot of nice suggestions thank you guys.
I will probably get around to doing this next week as I have a lot to do for college now, but I am very grateful for your help so far (especially dragonflight ).
As for the format of the series- I liked the style where I organized the codex entries and read them as a story of sorts, but a many people said they prefer the format I am doing now, which is basically almost like a powerpoint style presentation/lecture. And I can understand that, because it makes it easier to follow. But I think, that for the chantry episode the first format would be better- or maybe a merge of the two.

For the record, I think the Chantry and Andraste should be two separate entries. So mention Andraste in the Chantry video, but focus on the chantry founded by Drakon centuries after her death, its practices, and historical significance (Exalted Marches, Templars, Circle of Magi, and such)

[TheShizno]

For the record, I think the Chantry and Andraste should be two separate entries. So mention Andraste in the Chantry video, but focus on the chantry founded by Drakon centuries after her death, its practices, and historical significance (Exalted Marches, Templars, Circle of Magi, and such)

Actually I was thinking of doing that withTemplars and Seekers as well. I want to only mention their creation and use in the video, but go more in depth in a different video. Andraste is a good idea as well thanks

[Sir JK]

Do not forget to mention the dissonant verses:

 

The Canticle of Shartan. (Source: Dark Moon in DA:O). Originally part of the Chant of Light, stricken from the Chant during the reign of Renata I after she declared an Exalted March on the elves. The Masked Empire discusses at the very least official explanation in slightly more detail.

 

The Canticle of Silence. Which we find in The Calling as one of the starting chapters.

 

and the Canticle of Maferath. Which we find all over the Wending wood in DA:A.

 

---

 

Those could be interesting to discuss while on the topic of how the Chantry developed over time. At which point one should also mention the Transfigurations, which is the period when the Tevinter imperium converted to andrastianism (and probably the namesake of the Canticle of Transfigurations).

[dragonflight288]

Shizno, while I was playing Awakening last night, I found out something quite interesting. 

 

The Merchant's Guild board where you get quests for people around Amaranthine has some interesting information on the Canticle of Maferath. 

 

It outright states that the Canticle of Maferath was always part of the Dissonent Verses, never included, but the verses on the statues was a verse that was taken out of the Canticle already. It also calls for the Warden's discretion because the study of the Dissonent Verses is frowned upon. The seeker signs off the request as an anonymous chantry scholar. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Why wouldn't it be frowned upon? Its troublesome when Politics intertwine with Faith, especially when it comes to things like revoking Andraste's gift to the elves because they were idiots and picked a war they couldn't win.

[Hellion Rex]

Shizno, while I was playing Awakening last night, I found out something quite interesting. 

 

The Merchant's Guild board where you get quests for people around Amaranthine has some interesting information on the Canticle of Maferath. 

 

It outright states that the Canticle of Maferath was always part of the Dissonent Verses, never included, but the verses on the statues was a verse that was taken out of the Canticle already. It also calls for the Warden's discretion because the study of the Dissonent Verses is frowned upon. The seeker signs off the request as an anonymous chantry scholar. 

Maferath had a Canticle? I'll be damned, I didn't remember that lol

 

Yeah, I can see why that would be stricken.

[Master Warder Z_]

Maferath had a Canticle? I'll be damned, I didn't remember that lol

 

Yeah, I can see why that would be stricken.

 

Given that it said that he was forgiven for his transgressions even when they were so grave? I can see why it would be removed.

[Mistic]

Given that it said that he was forgiven for his transgressions even when they were so grave? I can see why it would be removed.

 

Did it say so? Interesting. Better to remove it. It may give people weird ideas about atonement, redemption and forgiveness being possible in the world.

[Master Warder Z_]

Did it say so? Interesting. Better to remove it. It may give people weird ideas about atonement, redemption and forgiveness being possible in the world.

 

When you strike down a Prophet? Yeah.

 

._.

[dragonflight288]

Did it say so? Interesting. Better to remove it. It may give people weird ideas about atonement, redemption and forgiveness being possible in the world.

 

Yes, the Merchant's Board where you pick up the quest specifically says it's been removed and is a Dissonent Verse.

 

It also says that studying the Dissonent Verses is frowned upon.

[dragonflight288]

When you strike down a Prophet? Yeah.

 

._.

 

Archon Valerius?

[Master Warder Z_]

Archon Valerius?

 

It isn't widely supported that he actually believed outside of the Imperium.

 

Besides he was only the one to literally kill Andraste, he didn't put her into that position.

[LordofOrzammar]

What about the split between the Imperial Chantry and the Orlesian Chantry? I found the whole "Black Divine" vs "White Divine" facsinating. A lot of the detial on that is in the World of Thedas book; the interaction between the two chantrys is great.

 

As an aside, I hope we learn more about the Imperial Chantry in DAI because they sound awesome.

[The Baconer]

Archon Valerius?

 

You mean Hessarian?

[DKJaigen]

Did it say so? Interesting. Better to remove it. It may give people weird ideas about atonement, redemption and forgiveness being possible in the world.

 

The most interesting part is that his betrayal apparently was divinely inspired. in short the maker set Andraste up to fail and this would mess up a lot of chantry dogma.

[Divine Justinia V]

Shizno, while I was playing Awakening last night, I found out something quite interesting. 

 

The Merchant's Guild board where you get quests for people around Amaranthine has some interesting information on the Canticle of Maferath. 

 

It outright states that the Canticle of Maferath was always part of the Dissonent Verses, never included, but the verses on the statues was a verse that was taken out of the Canticle already. It also calls for the Warden's discretion because the study of the Dissonent Verses is frowned upon. The seeker signs off the request as an anonymous chantry scholar. 

 

Thank you for this because I missed it, clearly.

[dragonflight288]

You mean Hessarian?

 

Thanks.

 

Valerius was the one who turned a seer into a talking statue. 

[dragonflight288]

Thank you for this because I missed it, clearly.

 

No problem.

[dragonflight288]

The most interesting part is that his betrayal apparently was divinely inspired. in short the maker set Andraste up to fail and this would mess up a lot of chantry dogma.

 

Also, the Chantry needs a convenient scapegoat for the Maker abandoning them a 2nd time and Maferath works just nicely for that role. 

[TheShizno]

I have put this together so far if you want to take a look at it: (sources: codex, world of thedas, wiki, memory)
Disclaimer: its almost 2AM and I just finished this- only a first draft. I will continue tomorrow.
"                Religion is the driving force behind the politics and history of every nation across Thedas, because Empires and kingdoms are willing to wage wars about the pivot points of their faiths and believes. But no religous organization on the continent has probably had as much impact on the people as the Chantry. Spreading across most of the continent, the Chantrys belief in the Maker, the supreme being who created the World and the people, has started wars that changed the world utterly.

                Andraste, the Makers prophet, was a woman born outside of royal circles, into a once small village called Denerim.  In her youth she used to suffer through nightmares, which she later came to interpret as the call of the Maker, who had abandoned his children after they tainted his City and started to worship the Old Gods.

                According to the Chantry the Maker has given the people of Thedas another chance when he fell in love with Andraste and the songs she sang for him. He offered to take pluck her from the mortal realm and make her his bride. But she refused. Unwilling to leave her life and husband Maferath behind she begged the Maker to return to his people and the reform the world into a new paradise. The Maker agreed under the condition, that Andraste changes the hearts of the people and convinces them to give up false believes and worships.

                Andraste has thus began to preach the word of the maker to the people. Her core teachings were later summarized, by her desciples, in the Chant of Light, the most holy religious book of the Chantry.  In it, it is written that it was the Tevinter mages that brought the darkspawn into thedas- a terrible price they had to pay for tainting the Golden city with their pride. Until all people would unite to praise the Maker and repent, he would not forgive them. Because of this, Andraste preached that magic must serve man, not rule over him- an idea attractive to the people opressed by the Tevinter Impirum, who at the time justified their actions with the teachings of the Old Gods.

                People, seeing her as a leader who can bring end to their suffering, followed her on her quest and rebelled against Tevinter. The news of miraculous victories over the opressors, as well as Andrastes teachings, spread across Thedas rapidly. With both of her husbands at her side, she grew stronger both in power and resolve. Her and Maferath, now a general, managed to fight their way into Minrathous, the capital of the Impirium, where they achieved a big victory. The dissonant verses, verses removed from the Chant of Light, also speak of Shartan- an elven Tevinter slave who rallied others of his kind to aid Andraste. For their help they were later given the Dales.

 

                Despite Mafertahs bravery however, the Chantry says that he grew jealous of the Maker and made a secret pact with Archon Hessarian- a truce in exchange for Andrastes capture. She was burned alive in front of a crowd as a threat to all others who would oppose the Imperium. Because of this, fire is of great importance to the chantry. If you went to just about any temple of the church, you would find a lit brazier in her memory. The more zealous members also ritually burn themselves on rare occasions and the dead are always cremated.

                After her death, a group of Andrastes disciples managed to smuggle her ashes out of the Tevinter capital, but the ashes were lost along the way. The lands conquered by Andraste now belonged to her jealous ex-husband Maferath. The betrayal was well hidden, but only until Hessarian had a change of heart and publicly converted to belief in the Maker, started the religious transformation of the Imperium and exposed the betrayal. Maferath was then overthrown by his own sons, who divided the lands and founded the nations knows as Orlais, Nevarra and Ferelden.

                According to the chantry the Maker has once again abandoned his people after the death of his wife, who is now sitting by his side, watching over Thedas. Following her death, the religion had no clear leader and was scattered across the continent until Kordillus Drakon, the first emperor of Orlais, founded the Chantry and ministered the Chant of Light. He then further increased the influence of the Chantry during the second Blight, while expanding the Orlesian Empire. For his achievements he was declared „Anointed“- a rare title given only to people who are seen as the hands of the Maker.

                During its existance the Chantry has established many organizations- most notable of which are the Antivan Crows, Seekers of Truth, Templars, Circle of Magi and the Inquisition. With its political influence the Chantry can now declar Exalted Marches- religious crusades against the opposers of the church. First one is considered to be that of Andraste. Since then there has been one against the elves of Dales, four against the Imperial Chantry, which has separated because they questioned Andrastes holyness, and three more against the Qunari.

                 "

[Cobra's_back]

The only Evidence in game was a "historical" treatise on the subject, There is no "evidence".

 

And i have never seen a convincing argument for Andraste being a mage.

 

You don't need to be a mage to work with Lyrium by the way.

 

I heard that as well. She may have been a mage.

[Divine Justinia V]

I heard that as well. She may have been a mage.

 

That would make me cackle so loud

[dragonflight288]

Nice first draft Shizno, a few typos here and there, but easily edited and fixed. I like it. 

[TheShizno]

Final Product: 

[dragonflight288]

I love it!