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Shouldn't there be a DL for a better ending?


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#1
MatthewVonRugen

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I know since Mass Effect 3 debuted there has been much discussion about the ending, but I really think something more specific about it in terms of what the ending should have been hasn't been discussed fully.  I say this as a gamer but also a college professor of English who has dabbled in sociology etc etc.  And it comes down to the fact that the ending and its three endings feel like they missed something.  The areas I feel we all might agree on if we think of it come down to the conflicts or issues in the game and the antagonists of it.  These areas include the nature of the reapers themselves, their leviathan creators, "Naturally Evolved AI" Vs Constructed and programed AI, (basically a debate between Geth and EDI vs Reapers.)  But before we get into that, let me explain.

 

I am not a gamer first, I am a lover of story...I even forgive what some people perceive as far-fetched or improbable if done well.  That said 90% of the Mass Effect series is well rendered.  The Characters, the interactions between them, even those fans find boring or don't like, I say adds to the spice of the series.  As I played I noted many focuses in the game around belief etc.  This goes beyond mere Paragon/Renegade choices.  I feel most of those choices are just the execution of something central to the game which I would say is man finding his place among the older races of the galaxy.  That is one theme that has been consistent throughout...teamwork is another, and lastly, the attainment and ethical use of power.  This is what makes the game so rich at its best times, and perhaps is what led even fans of the game to rail at the ending again and again, it is so close to making things epic, but something obvious in the game is missing.

 

By which I mean, the reapers.  I came late to this game, (I got a console and the game itself this year,)If it hadn't been for all the spoilers, I would have had much different expectations for the end. Meaning, the story seems to take to a slightly different ending and a few things that are never pointed out, especially about the reapers.  I shall explain:

 

The Reapers and the Leviathans are idiots and possibly been glitching for 55 million years.  Ok that might sound harsh at first but think about it, after 55 million years the reapers have not evolved past the simple philosophy of their creators.  Their idea of preserving life is barbaric and despite this preservation the reapers seem to understand little.  Compare this to EDI and the Geth, they are more intellectually evolved to the point of starting to exhibit emotions, yet the Reapers have none.  This would seem to suggest that the Reapers are not even true AI, that their methods have put them into an evolutional rut that they have stayed in for millions of years.  That despite collecting knowledge they know nothing of experiencing life, and therefore they say they preserve it but they do not seem to value it.  I mean a lot of people are killed and destroyed in battle but the many different zombielike varieties of "Husk" From Banshees to Marauders etc, are mindlessly just killing machines.  I mean in 55 million years we are to believe this is the best way to harvest people?  That being said the fix would have been so easy, what if the crucible was a mere test of organics that this war was to create unity, and maybe see if they and AI could evolve past their differences?  Or a way for the reapers to finally realize their methods are utterly wrong?  As powerful as the Reapers creators are, the leviathans are arrogant god-poseurs that want order in my opinion to keep themselves on the top.  (I might add that would have made a great jab at corrupt power structures, and certainly would have fit with all the misuse of power by the Illusive man and others.)  Leviathans have a huge flaw, they are gifted with a power that has made them not have to adapt or evolve...I might also add that this could have been used to show how their thinking has never evolved.  They appear to be loveless compassionless creatures, using their powers to keep themselves at the top, basically they are "paragons" of self-interest.  "The lesser species", are just their toys. Basically they are squid-crab Nazis and their creations the reapers are no better.  Basically for such an ancient race they are dimwits with absolutely no enlightenment, a huge disappointment.  That being said that woulod have been fine had the ending either been a test or the reapers finally realize they and the creators had their head up their fundament all these years.

 

Chaos and Order are extremes, and the Reapers/Leviathans are thinking in absolutes as a Sith in Star Wars does, they wish to destroy Chaos, but life even strength comes from chaos in other parts of the game.  By which I mean the Krogan, they have finally after years of Chaos, produced Urdnot Wrex who finds a way in his own world to balance Chaos with Order.  Otherwise he makes a civilization with just enough wildness to make life valuable.  In this sense, Wrex is one in a long line of characters more enlightened than the Reapers.  In fact, Wrex was a great surprise from ME2 on you realizes hes sorta a natural genius. I might add he was born of chance/chaos.  Let’s also talk about the Geth now, they seem to be the inheritors of Isaac Asimov's laws of Robotics, but even more complicated.  In a sense, I find that if you manage to broker peace with the Geth you get to realize of ethically evolved they are, they are perhaps the humblest race as a whole, remember the heretics where a minority.  The Geth want no war, only survival.  And I always liked the switch of their story which should what impulsive jerks the Quarians where, and some still are.  I mean how many players felt a little pissed at them trying to blow up the Geth Dreadnought with you and your team in it?  How many gleefully hit the renagade toggle to make sure a certain admiral got gut-punched?  Why?  Because you probably realized the Geth where more human in a positive sense,  than their creators, some of them anyway.  Which makes me wonder why the hell they have to be killed in the destroy ending.  They seem to have come to be AI not by design but by evolution.  This makes me wonder why the Reapers are such big Idiots again, then I remember they see everything beneath them, even if they try to "preserve it." I might add I always ask, "to what end are you preserving things?"  This is cause the Reapers seem to do nothing with this knowledge, they have no humor, art, or literature.  They meddle; they make this huge mousetrap called mass relays and the citadel.  But really they sorta just suck.

 

EDI at 3 years old(roughly) is superior in her intellect to them.  Again, I might add she was a evolutional AI she was made to be something than what she became.  The nature of AI in the series was an issue I found interesting and never explored fully.  But only cause the EDI did not get to confront the Starchild and tell him what for.

 

I think it would be best if the three endings where all part of an elaborate test, to show Shepard's willingness to sacrifice himself, a foreign concept to the Leviathans and the Reapers I think with three slightly different outcomes for the three approaches.  Mainly the outcomes being the Reapers see some of their own flaws at last, especially since this is the first Organic that’s even made it to have a real talk with their core, and either leave the universe of self-destruct, maybe even wiping Shepard's mind with a false memory of the Crucible destroying them if necessary.  Yes, I suppose this means I am proposing another DL.  I know it’s more a fantasy than a reality but what the hell, this is a feedback thread.  The rational for this is the fact that the Starchild is looking at new possibilities due to what the other races and Shepard have done this cycle.  I might also add that the Protheans and Leviathans both have a bad relationship with AI's because they wanted tools to help them keep their place in the universe.  And both races where majorly flawed, Javik learns more but he too is somewhat guilty of being an idiot at first too.

 

Right now I imagine my own endings to go along with the three options.  Synthesis in my mind should have had the sharing of the info not making the organic/mech hybrid they did too many people wonder how machine and man could have babies etc. Maybe Control should have ended with the Reapers just moving on to another Galaxy to help others "Evolve" Brutal I know but to me that makes more sense.  Destroy, might have let them self-destruct completely to make way for the more evolved AI.

 

I had to cut this short, duty calls elsewhere but I would really wonder what people’s opinions are on this, what should/could be the perfect ending DL.(fantasy of course)  Oh, And maybe Shapard should live so we get some closure, I always feel I break my promises to my paramour with the current endings.  If this gets posted I will elaborate.  As I said short for time to get these ideas out.


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#2
THX-1141

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My ME3 ending of the day . Its a great game until the beam his you.  

 

Take the dream element of IT and work it into something a bit more palpable... you survive beam, Harbinger winged you, but leaves thinking "you dead".  All surviving members of your squad, except the one(s) injured (or dead) in the final push run to you, Jack, Samara, everyone, then you storm the beam together.  get to the top and its chaos.  you pick 2 leaders.  One to go look in other parts of the station to organize resistance, and prep civilians to evac as soon as the arms open.  That person needs 2 helpers.  The other leader and remaining squad members are to hold the entrance to the beam. You and Anderson go to find the controls.  You have the meeting with Illusive Man, you choice makes Shepard or Anderson live, then the last one standing opens the arms and 

 

 

I could even take the end as it is with Shepard dead, if they had at least cutscenes of a proper tribute to him/her, had the squadmates speak on his/her behalf, have a ANN article on him with random people like Conrad, that woman and her brother in law who argued about the treatments for her kid.  Have a scene of the Alliance giving a formal ceremony for such a decorated fallen hero.  For each surviving squadmate (all three games) then a cutscene for each one of what they got up to after.  Examples could be (only applicable ones would be seen...) Liara tells Jack about how her mom was tricked by Cerberus, and they reunite, Javik finds peace by giving context to prothean research Liara does, Garus, and Jacob makes a fortune talking about his adventures with Shepard, Jeff works with Tali and the Geth to restore EDI from a backup ;)  Samara gives up being a Justicar to go and live with her daughter, Wrex and Eve put the Krogan back on the path to restoring their glory, Grunt becomes the leader of a united Krogan defense force... and many more...



#3
I Miss Minsc

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Google    "Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod"

 

It saved me the bile.

 

I waited till a mod was made BEFORE my First Playthru.

 

PC's allow for Owner changes, after all it isn't  untouchable "ART"  IF WE PAID FOR IT.

 

"Mods make the Difference"


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#4
Excella Gionne

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You are preaching to the wrong choir! Post this in the Single Player forums, and you might get more response. Also, with ME3's endings, it would be unfair to have great endings...



#5
Felya87

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You are preaching to the wrong choir! Post this in the Single Player forums, and you might get more response. Also, with ME3's endings, it would be unfair to have great endings...

 

well, with all the "fairness" that FemShep had received in ME3 in the LI departmant, I really don't care about "fairness" for those "things" that are still passed for endings... :whistle:



#6
Abelas Forever!

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I wouldn't change the endings because that is how the story ends. Those were your choices in the end. For me the destroy ending with the breathing scene is a good ending because there is still hope that you will meet all of your friends and I believe that will happen. Your price for the freedom is huge but if you want your freedom then you just don't have any other option.

 

I wouldn't want an ending where reapers would realize that they were wrong.  For me that would be quite awful ending. I wouldn't like that at all because I don't like too happy endings where bad guys will realize that their way of doing things were wrong and you are celebrated for making them to realize that. That is just not for me. I rather see that not everything will go well but there is still hope like in destroy ending.

 

I think it makes sense why reapers don't change. It's because they are not influenced by others like EDI and geth are. They also don't see that there is anything wrong with them because they reflect the personality of Harbinger who was arrogant and thought that he could do anything. Of course there is the thing that the AI controls the reapers so the reapers are just tools. So in order them to change somebody should influence the AI but I think that is even more unlikely because you only see the AI in the end. But it's also possible that we don't know everything about the reapers and their reasons for doing things.


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#7
Iakus

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Google    "Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod"

 

It saved me the bile.

 

I waited till a mod was made BEFORE my First Playthru.

 

PC's allow for Owner changes, after all it isn't  untouchable "ART"  IF WE PAID FOR IT.

 

"Mods make the Difference"

You are a very lucky human.



#8
AlanC9

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Shouldn't this thread be over on the Story forum?



#9
78stonewobble

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I wouldn't change the endings because that is how the story ends. Those were your choices in the end. For me the destroy ending with the breathing scene is a good ending because there is still hope that you will meet all of your friends and I believe that will happen. Your price for the freedom is huge but if you want your freedom then you just don't have any other option.

 

I wouldn't want an ending where reapers would realize that they were wrong.  For me that would be quite awful ending. I wouldn't like that at all because I don't like too happy endings where bad guys will realize that their way of doing things were wrong and you are celebrated for making them to realize that. That is just not for me. I rather see that not everything will go well but there is still hope like in destroy ending.

 

I think it makes sense why reapers don't change. It's because they are not influenced by others like EDI and geth are. They also don't see that there is anything wrong with them because they reflect the personality of Harbinger who was arrogant and thought that he could do anything. Of course there is the thing that the AI controls the reapers so the reapers are just tools. So in order them to change somebody should influence the AI but I think that is even more unlikely because you only see the AI in the end. But it's also possible that we don't know everything about the reapers and their reasons for doing things.

 

Sure, why go for a quality ending when you can settle for mediocre to poor one. -..-

 

The price for freedom / life is ephemeral here. People care for the geth out of principle, but in reality faceless thin... uhm people far away doesn't concern us that much (are we crying about the x millions people we don't know killed in traffic accidents a year? NO!). Yeah, we feel a bit sad for the geth, but it didn't make us cry and therefore we only cared so and so much about it. 

 

Shepard dying? ... Noooo, we didn't really care so much about that either, because let's face it... A majority of shep's would sacrifice themselves for something like this anyway. We kinda expected it. 

 

If they wanted us sad, they should have killed the teammates and loveinterests. If they wanted us to be renegade, they should have given us the option to screw the galaxy and save ourselves. 

 

Personally I think a happy ending belongs in there somewhere... because a mediocre happy ending beats a mediocre grey one. Atleast the happy one leaves me happy. Also because I want actually emotional difference between endings. Otherwise they might just have had 1. 



#10
q5tyhj

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I wouldn't change the endings because that is how the story ends. 

 

Indeed. For good or ill, this is the story. And I tend to think its mostly for good, and that many of the complaints are unjustified.



#11
Abelas Forever!

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Sure, why go for a quality ending when you can settle for mediocre to poor one. -..-

 

The price for freedom / life is ephemeral here. People care for the geth out of principle, but in reality faceless thin... uhm people far away doesn't concern us that much (are we crying about the x millions people we don't know killed in traffic accidents a year? NO!). Yeah, we feel a bit sad for the geth, but it didn't make us cry and therefore we only cared so and so much about it. 

 

Shepard dying? ... Noooo, we didn't really care so much about that either, because let's face it... A majority of shep's would sacrifice themselves for something like this anyway. We kinda expected it. 

 

If they wanted us sad, they should have killed the teammates and loveinterests. If they wanted us to be renegade, they should have given us the option to screw the galaxy and save ourselves. 

 

Personally I think a happy ending belongs in there somewhere... because a mediocre happy ending beats a mediocre grey one. Atleast the happy one leaves me happy. Also because I want actually emotional difference between endings. Otherwise they might just have had 1. 

 

The story ended like it ended. It was meant to be like that and I don't think it should be changed because some people want it to end differently. Some people also liked the ending and I don't think they would like that the ending would be changed. There is also the thing that how can we know that the changed ending would be any better. It might be even worse and then people would be angry again. I rather see that the resources are used in next ME game than changing the ending of ME3. I think it's too late for changing the ending anyway.

 

I was sad because I didn't get the breathing scene on my first playthrough because I made some mistakes along the way and for me it was really important to be reunited with my LI. But even if I didn't like that ending I could have never demanded BioWare to change the endings because it's their game and they made the endings and they gave me the choices in the end. Maybe they really thought that those endings were really good but some people didn't like them. Or maybe something went wrong and they couldn't do anything about it and they just had to release the game like it was. Or maybe the ending was meant to be like that and they have some great ideas what to do in next ME game based on your choices. I don't know. But anyway when I discovered that I can get the breathing scene I was very happy because I really wouldn't have wanted the general happy ending where I see my LI again and I'm celebrated for being hero etc. the stuff what you usually see in mainstream movies.



#12
Googleness

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After the DLCs and overall plot expansion they added I think the ending is pretty good. when you take into account all 3 games as an whole product of single experience consisting lots of time and they way almost every choice you make affects the game it's overall splendid game.