254 réponses à ce sujet

[SamaraDraven]

I can't quote for some reason...

 

Merrill may have been portrayed differently in DA2 but that doesn't mean she was retconned. She mentions Tamlen and his death. She kept the mirror that killed him! I don't see how a redesign equates with retcon.

 

Isabela was a caricature of a pirate in DAO. And very limited to that. It's only in DA2 that's she's more fleshed out. So was her appearance there fanservice since any pirate character from Rivain could have done just as well?

 

Similarly, we know little about Cullen, We don't know how he came to the service of the Order or what he may have seen from inside that the player doesn't. We don't know how he's going to play out in the next game either. He could go either way. Which is a potential I find interesting.

 

And critiquing the devs' decisions is not the same as claiming to know their own minds and decisions better than they themselves do. Nothing peeves me more than someone telling a person why they really did something. You don't like Cullen as he is? That's fine. Your claim that he couldn't possibly have a reason to be in the games is based on your opinion and sounds an awful like a "Fanservice" accusation.

 

To Justinia: You're right. A woman who can duel several men at once is intriguing, but I don't recall her doing that in DAO. Did she do that in DAO? At any rate, I don't recall her becoming all that interesting until DA2. I did like her in DA2.

[Brightwolf]

idk about yall but any woman that has the skill in dualism to take on multiple men at once and still win is very interesting to me

 

Just saw this and thought a should toss in this rule of thumb

1 year of experience/training over your opponent=you can reliably beat someone faster and stronger than you.

2 years of experience/training over your opponent=you can reliably beat 2 opponents of your strength and speed

3 years of experience/training over your opponent=you can reliable beat any number opponents of your strength and speed or 2 that are faster and stronger than you.

5 years of experience/training over your opponent= you can beat any number of opponents that are faster and stronger than you.

 

This is just a rule of thumb and is dependant on how hard you train during these years but its generally a good rule of thumb.

[Divine Justinia V]

To Justinia: You're right. A woman who can duel several men at once is intriguing, but I don't recall her doing that in DAO. Did she do that in DAO? At any rate, I don't recall her becoming all that interesting until DA2. I did like her in DA2.

 

She did, it was right before we met her.

[SamaraDraven]

She did, it was right before we met her.

 

Ah. It's been a while. I haven't played DAO in ages. I remembered it from DA2, though. Her love story was actually surprising too.

[Sister Goldring]

Elven history is lost to anyone but the dalish. And even they know very little. Unique style of magic, unique culture shrouded in mystery, royal blood in her veins. Very interesting.
Cullen doesn't seem like an adventurous or fun type. In DAO he was pretty much a boy, at least mentally. In DA2 he became slightly more mature but... Still too average

He is a Templar, he's trained to hunt down appostate mages, combat blood mages and deal with abominations.  That doesn't lend itself to a personality that prefers to spend their time knitting.

 

Out of the entire Ferelden Circle, he is the only Templar who survived being trapped and tortured by demons, everyone else behind Wynne's seal was either dead, a mage, possessed or an abomination.  Therefore he has shown some exceptional ability or quality.

 

It's perfectly fine to

a)  dislike him and

b )  find him boring as dishwater

 

However, these are purely subjective opinions.  They are every bit as valuable as those who praise Cullen but you cannot claim an argument made of anything other than personal preference.  None of this makes true your claims that Cullen's inclusion is fan service.

[Chari]

I can't quote for some reason...

Merrill may have been portrayed differently in DA2 but that doesn't mean she was retconned. She mentions Tamlen and his death. She kept the mirror that killed him! I don't see how a redesign equates with retcon.

Isabela was a caricature of a pirate in DAO. And very limited to that. t's only in DA2 that's she's more fleshed out. So was her appearance there fanservice since any pirate character from Rivain could have done just as well?

Similarly, we know little about Cullen, We don't know how he came to the service of the Order or what he may have seen from inside that the players doesn't. We don't know how he's going to play out in the next game either. He could go either way. Which is a potential I find interesting.

And critiquing the devs' decisions is not the same as claiming to know their own minds and decisions better than they themselves do. Nothing peeves me more than someone telling a person why they really did something. You don't like Cullen as he is? That's fine. Your claim that he couldn't possibly have a reason to be in the games is based on your opinion and sounds an awful like a "Fanservice" accusation.

To Justinia: You're right. A woman who can duel several men at once is intriguing, but I don't recall her doing that in DAO. Did she do that in DAO? At any rate, I don't recall her becoming all that interesting until DA2. I did like her in DA2.

Personaluty and design retcon is still a retcon.

Isabella didn't have an insanely large fan base demanding to make her a LI or a companion :3 though we still learnt too little about Rivain IMHO

I never said it was the only reason. But it definitely made a difference in the decision. Making him a LI at least, especially if he is a npc

[Panda]

On initial impression, I don't think Cullen has enough to add to the overall world lore for me to want him in a companion slot over Iron Bull/warden, or most of the other companions he'd be pushing out. That being said, I don't think he's going to. He'll be fine as an NPC again. 

 

If I can ask.. why Grey Warden has more to add than Cullen? Or why he's more intresting? In DAO you were a Grey Warden and if you have read the books and other stuff about the Grey Wardens I think you pretty much know everything. Of cource the character himself can be really intresting but so far when there is only info that he's Grey Warden I don't know what's the intrest.

[TKavatar]

Merrill was pretty self confident and wise in DAO and she turned into a extremely naive girl in DA2. They even changed her vallaslin for heavens sake.

[Chari]

He is a Templar, he's trained to hunt down appostate mages, combat blood mages and deal with abominations. That doesn't lend itself to a personality that prefers to spend their time knitting.

Out of the entire Ferelden Circle, he is the only Templar who survived being trapped and tortured by demons, everyone else behind in Wynne's seal, was dead, a mage, possessed or an abomination. Therefore he has shown some exceptional ability or quality.

It's perfectly fine to
a) dislike him and
b ) find him boring as dishwater

However, these are purely subjective opinions. They are every bit as valuable as those who praise Cullen but you cannot claim an argument made of anything other than personal preference. None of this makes true your claims that Cullen's inclusion is fan service.

It's been 10 years and he seems to have been healed from that post traumatic shock.
I have a right to express my opinion regardless of how subjective it is, as long as I don't go throwing blatant insults. Just as you do. That is called a discussion :3

[Chari]

If I can ask.. why Grey Warden has more to add than Cullen? Or why he's more intresting? In DAO you were a Grey Warden and if you have read the books and other stuff about the Grey Wardens I think you pretty much know everything. Of cource the character himself can be really intresting but so far when there is only info that he's Grey Warden I don't know what's the intrest.

Grey wardens are pure mystery. And he is likely an orlesian grey warden. And, well, he is a new character

[Panda]

Grey wardens are pure mystery. And he is likely an orlesian grey warden. And, well, he is a new character

 

Umm mystery? Well I understand the Orlesian part but for me I'm actually more intrested of returning characters and continuity than new characters who I don't know anything about. I haven't yet seen anything that would make me intrested of him so far but I hope future info of him opens up his personality more.

[SamaraDraven]

Personaluty and design retcon is still a retcon.

Isabella didn't have an insanely large fan base demanding to make her a LI or a companion :3 though we still learnt too little about Rivain IMHO

I never said it was the only reason. But it definitely made a difference in the decision. Making him a LI at least, especially if he is a npc

 

I wouldn't call her history, the events she was a part of, a retcon.

 

So because Isabela didn't have a large fanbase (Cullen's isn't that big either) demanding her return, that makes her inclusion not fanservice when she had less reason to be in DA2 than Cullen did, until we discover her connection to the Qunari?    I would like to see Rivain though...

 

It's the only part of your reasons I take issue with. As I said, it's fine if you just don't like him. He may be more interesting than you give him credit for. The devs wouldn't slap a character in there just to stand around and spout sweet nothings for a small faction of their players. So he will have a reason to be there which isn't fanservice. He could have a reason to be there that I won't like, but as I've said before, they can do pretty much anything with him and I will be happy as long as it's done well. It's hardly fanservice to want that or to create that. Like him or not, he's not the proverbial Blarney Stone of DA. If he was, I wouldn't want him in the game at all. And that's what the fanservice part of your critique amounts to.

[Chari]

Umm mystery? Well I understand the Orlesian part but for me I'm actually more intrested of returning characters and continuity than new characters who I don't know anything about. I haven't yet seen anything that would make me intrested of him so far but I hope future info of him opens up his personality more.

We literally don't know anything about him. Except that he laughs at jokes and looks sad in the rain.

[Battlebloodmage]

Elven history is lost to anyone but the dalish. And even they know very little. Unique style of magic, unique culture shrouded in mystery, royal blood in her veins. Very interesting.
Cullen doesn't seem like an adventurous or fun type. In DAO he was pretty much a boy, at least mentally. In DA2 he became slightly more mature but... Still too average

And yet we don't learn anything about that from Merrill. Her story is actually about her being a bloodmage, not a Dalish, so basically, she's just another outcast bloodmage, too average. It's more like you're set on dislike Cullen, so it doesn't matter how interesting he is, is it? You can't just add adjective to a word without explaining it and make it true. We know a lot about the Grey Warden already, so nothing about them is a mystery. Cullen as a companion could offer a point of view on the Red Templar, the red lyrium, the relationship between the templar and circle or the relationship between the chantry and the templar. maybe even about the order itself.

[Sister Goldring]

It's been 10 years and he seems to have been healed from that post traumatic shock.
I have a right to express my opinion regardless of how subjective it is, as long as I don't go throwing blatant insults. Just as you do. That is called a discussion :3

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at with the post traumatic shock statement?  I was talking about your statement that Cullen was unadventurous and that other companion characters had unique qualities and back stories which made them interesting.  I used his experience in the Ferelden circle to demonstrate that Cullen too had shown unique qualities.

 

I have no problem with you disliking Cullen and wishing that they had written a different character instead.  That is your opinion and you are entitled to have it and express it as you see fit.  I do not agree that anything you have said would indicate that the characters inclusion is fan service.

 

To continually reiterate an opinion may be a conversation but it is not an argument and as such this discussion has reached it's conclusion, for me anyway.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

If I can ask.. why Grey Warden has more to add than Cullen? Or why he's more intresting? In DAO you were a Grey Warden and if you have read the books and other stuff about the Grey Wardens I think you pretty much know everything. Of cource the character himself can be really intresting but so far when there is only info that he's Grey Warden I don't know what's the intrest.

In DA:O we played a Grey Warden that knows nothing about Grey Wardens and basically every warden we've encountered since either is the same or wasn't talking much. The books are outdated as far as the modern timeline goes. We have no idea what's going on with them right now and they're one of the first groups to reach the Primeval Thaig. Nathaniel also hints that they have open relations with the intelligent darkspawn by that point in the story. There's very likely a lot going on with the wardens that we don't know about and the mystery warden could very well elaborate on that.  

[Chari]

I wouldn't call her history, the events she was a part of, a retcon.

So because Isabela didn't have a large fanbase (Cullen's isn't that big either) demanding her return, that makes her inclusion not fanservice when she had less reason to be in DA2 than Cullen did, until we discover her connection to the Qunari? I would like to see Rivain though...

It's the only part of your reasons I take issue with. As I said, it's fine if you just don't like him. He may be more interesting than you give him credit for. The devs wouldn't slap a character in there just to stand around and spout sweet nothings for a small faction of their players. So he will have a reason to be there which isn't fanservice. He could have a reason to be there that I won't like, but as I've said before, they can do pretty much anything with him and I will be happy as long as it's done well. It's hardly fanservice to want that or to create that. Like him or not, he's not the proverbial Blarney Stone of DA. If he was, I wouldn't want him in the game at all. And that's what the fanservice part of your critique amounts to.

No fanbase=no fanservice
Still, a LI? I hope in thé 4th installment we won't have LIs from previous companions or characters at all. Let old buddies rest and bring some fresh blood

[Panda]

We literally don't know anything about him. Except that he laughs at jokes and looks sad in the rain.

 

And that's what makes me disintrested of him so far.. that I don't know anything to be intrested about XD But everyone on their own

 

In DA:O we played a Grey Warden that knows nothing about Grey Wardens and basically every warden we've encountered since either is the same or wasn't talking much. The books are outdated as far as the modern timeline goes. We have no idea what's going on with them right now and they're one of the first groups to reach the Primeval Thaig. Nathaniel also hints that they have open relations with the intelligent darkspawn by that point in the story. There's very likely a lot going on with the wardens that we don't know about and the mystery warden could very well elaborate on that.  

 

Well.. I have enough Grey Wardens for the life ^^; You are Grey Warden in DAO, you and all your companions are one's in DA:A, The Calling is basically about Grey Wardens. I just feel I know enough them already and so this bearded dude being grey warden doesn't intrest me at all ^^

[Chari]

And yet we don't learn anything about that from Merrill. Her story is actually about her being a bloodmage, not a Dalish, so basically, she's just another outcast bloodmage, too average. It's more like you're set on dislike Cullen, so it doesn't matter how interesting he is, is it? You can't just add adjective to a word without explaining it and make it true. We know a lot about the Grey Warden already, so nothing about them is a mystery. Cullen as a companion could offer a point of view on the Red Templar, the red lyrium, the relationship between the templar and circle or the relationship between the chantry and the templar. maybe even about the order itself.

Unfortunately it is quite true. Merrill had a potential as a dalish character but became an outcast among outcasts.
I dislike him being a LI or a companion, not him existing. If that would be the case I would not even comment in his threads, like I ignore Isabella or Morrigan.
So, yeah, wasn't there a whole game already about it? Templars control and terrify mages, mages fear and terrify everyone, chantry controls both

[SamaraDraven]

No fanbase=no fanservice
Still, a LI? I hope in thé 4th installment we won't have LIs from previous companions or characters at all. Let old buddies rest and bring some fresh blood

 

Fanbase =/= fanservice. It just happens the fans will have something they want. Same as with Morrigan, Leliana, Anders, Zevran, Teagan's DA2 cameo, Alistair... Shall I go on? It's not fanservice just because they have fans. It's fan service when they're in a game for no reason but the fans, which is something the devs said they won't ever do. Accusing them of fanservice is accusing them of lying. And being cheap, I might add.

 

As for new blood. I like new blood and I like old pals. The familiar faces help tie the games together for me in more than just name; especially with changes in gameplay, graphics, design, etc... If Bioware does a game that veers from the mage/templar conflict - like say they deal with the Qunari threat - I would hope for familiar faces as well as new to kind of keep the feeling of it all being connected. Dragon Age has always struck me as a tapestry of sorts and every stitch is important to the whole tale's depiction.

[Chari]

Fanbase =/= fanservice. It just happens the fans will have something they want. Same as with Morrigan, Leliana, Anders, Zevran, Teagan's DA2 cameo, Alistair... Shall I go on? It's not fanservice just because they have fans. It's fan service when they're in a game for no reason but the fans, which is something the devs said they won't ever do. Accusing them of fanservice is accusing them of lying.

As for new blood. I like new blood and I like old pals. The familiar faces help tie the games together for me in more than just name; especially with changes in gameplay, graphics, design, etc... If Bioware does a game that veers from the mage/templar conflict - like they deal with, say the Qunari threat - I would hope for familiar faces as well as new to kind of keep the feeling of it all being connected. Dragon Age has always struck me as a tapestry of sorts and every stitch is important to the whole tale's depiction.

It's fan service if it is done to please the specific fans, even if there is another reason to bring in a character. Fan service is like a pie, good in small amounts.

Cameos - hell yeah. Companions and LIs? Nopetynope

[ElitePinecone]

Alexander the Templar for companion and love interest.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Well.. I have enough Grey Wardens for the life ^^; You are Grey Warden in DAO, you and all your companions are one's in DA:A, The Calling is basically about Grey Wardens. I just feel I know enough them already and so this bearded dude being grey warden doesn't intrest me at all ^^

The thing is, none of the people in the games you mentioned know anything about the organization and, even then, a lot has happened since then. 

 

I'm not really trying to convince you to like the character concept, though. Everyone has different reasons for liking different concepts. It's my personal opinion that the warden is more interesting than Cullen, from what we know, but I don't expect everyone to share that opinion.

[SamaraDraven]

It's fan service if it is done to please the specific fans, even if there is another reason to bring in a character. Fan service is like a pie, good in small amounts.

Cameos - hell yeah. Companions and LIs? Nopetynope

 

*sigh* So because he has fans it's fanservice to you... There's no reason to believe that when the devs said they wouldn't do that. It's insulting. You don't even know how he'll be used but because he has fans, his inclusion is fanservice... He could have another name and face but be the same character essentially but that wouldn't be fanservice... He may have something unique and mysterious and intriguing to add to he story but NOPE! Because... FANSSSS...

 

So on that note. I'm done. Good night.