55 réponses à ce sujet

[primarch3]

are the geth you fight in mass effect 3 the same geth that you blow up/ re program in mass effect 2, the ones that joined the old machines in me1? I am not sure if I should save them or not this time around because they made an alliance with the reapers to save themselves, and legion says they have been 'upgraded' by the reapers and that they have 'evolved' which doesn't sound good. I understand that they were desperate and wanted help against the 'creators' but siding with the Reapers sounds bad. Or were they part of Legions platform/country  and split of which is why legion helps you? Why IS legion helping you against his own people? Ideas on why I should save them and why I should destroy them will help me make a decision, I already recruited the ones that volunteered to go against the reapers and want to fight them now but have they been 'evolved' like the rest of them? saving the others sounds nice but freeing  AI that are completely self aware and can evolve sounds dangerous, especially if they like the fact they have been filled with reaper tech which they enjoy which is scary lol. What do you think would happen if i tried to destroy them, would they join the reapers completely or would they just go away? or saving them prove to the star child that organics and synthetics could get along and it is wrong? I would like to save them again as all they wanted was to defend themselves and some of the creators and all the creators want to do is get the planet back which could be done peacefully, but would letting reapper,AI that thinks it is alive mean that they could get along, I want the quarians to get their planet back but i am not sure what to do, any ideas would help me alot

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well here's the thing.... feelz.

 

They could be. How do I know this? Because if you destroy the Heretic base the Quarian assets are larger than if you overwrite the Heretics.

 

This would indicate there are more Geth around Rannoch and that more Quarians are dead if you overwrote the Geth Heretics. If you want to make peace you should destroy the Heretic base. It gives the Geth more incentive to make peace because there are fewer of them. 

 

The other thing is that you can just blow up the Heretics and side with the Quarians anyway. Oh, and I shot Legion. He tried to kill me. I took all three interrupts. I'm a horrible person.

 

It boils down to war assets. If you want to give Tali back her homeworld, you side with the Quarians or make peace. Who was right or who was wrong doesn't even need to enter into the equation. It didn't enter into mine. That was 300 years ago. I just wanted the Quarian fleet per my Commanding Officer's orders. If you have something like Leviathan or Omega, you'll have more than enough war assets, and you won't have that agonizing decision at the end.

[justafan]

Yes and no.  The Geth are a hivemind, so if you reprogram them in ME2, then yes you are fighting the Geth you didn't destroy, but they are at the same time the Geth who had nothing to do with ME1 and ME2, the ones who supposedly "choose their own path".  To quote Legion "we are all Geth", though I consider legion to be separate, unintentionally having gained sentience because of his abnormally high number of programs operating outside the confines of the consensus.  This is also how I justify him not being affected by the reaper code when really if he was truly Geth he would have agreed to take it like every other Geth in the galaxy.

 

The way I always saw it, up until ME3 there have only been 3 "Geth" entities in all of history, the Consensus hivemind, the Heretic separatist hivemind, and the Legion hivemind.  If you reprogram the heretics they become consensus Geth again.  Also, there is no way to save the Geth without allowing them to incorporate reaper code, so theres that to consider.  As for who to chose, I always go for peace when possible, but if push came to shove I would save the Quarians.  They've never joined the reapers, they'd never have the option, and the fact that the Geth now universally use reaper code, the epitome of bad juju, just doesn't sit well with me.

[AlanC9]

are the geth you fight in mass effect 3 the same geth that you blow up/ re program in mass effect 2, the ones that joined the old machines in me1? 

 

No. If you blew them up or reprogrammed them, how could they be back in ME3?

[DeinonSlayer]

Timeline:
- Council law abolishes artificial intelligence. It is universally believed by computer experts that an AI, if created, will become unstoppable the moment it learns to learn.
- Morning War: Quarians attempt to shut down Geth due to suspicions that they are evolving from VIs into a self-aware artificial intelligence, banned by Council law. Attempted extermination of the Geth fails. In retaliation, 99% of the Quarian species is exterminated within a year, with 17 million survivors fleeing in what would come to be known as the Migrant Fleet. Geth uncertainty over the ramifications of totally exterminating their creators stayed their hand.
- For three hundred years afterwards, the Geth were a completely isolationist society. They responded to no hails, and destroyed any organic vessel entering their space on sight, including emissaries sent to open diplomatic channels. The Council fleets massed on their borders in anticipation of a massive Geth invasion, but this invasion never came, prompting the gradual withdrawal of the Council fleets beyond scouts to monitor for Geth activity.
- Construction of a dyson sphere enveloping Rannoch's sun takes place during this time, its purpose and goal being to allow all Geth to network simultaneously and reach an as-yet unachieved level of consciousness. Efforts are made to clear rubble and toxins from the Morning War on Rannoch, as a memorial to those who died.
- Saren Arterius, aboard the reaper Sovereign, enters Geth space. The Geth are divided over whether to serve the Reaper, which offers a shortcut to the awareness they seek to achieve in the form of a reaper body of their own. Unable to reach consensus, the heretic geth split away from the rest of the collective at this time. The mainstream geth, content to permit the heretics to seek their own path, allowed them to leave, and sent no warning to organic society about the impending invasion.
- Sovereign's attack on the Citadel fails. The heretics, their numbers greatly reduced, continue to launch raids on organics for the next two years. Although the heretics are expulsed from Geth space, the mainstream Geth remain isolated during this two year period, and do not make any communications to organic society disavowing the heretics' actions. Legion leaves Geth space at this time to seek out Commander Shepard.
- Heretic Geth acquire a Reaper virus to distribute to the main Geth collective, forceably converting them to their cause. Legion, having learned of Shepard's death, is re-tasked to stop this virus, and goes to the Reaper derelict to learn about the architecture of its data storage. It is here that a chance encounter with Shepard results in Legion's integration with the Normandy crew; the first time in three centuries the Geth have communicated with organics.
- If Shepard destroys the heretics, there are scattered survivors according to Legion, but the threat has been gutted. Only the main collective remains. (+2 points towards peace, 7 needed in ME3)
- If Shepard rewrites the heretics, they rejoin the main Geth collective, and strongly support the alliance with the Reapers when the Quarians invade. (+0 points towards peace, 7 needed in ME3)

If you rewrite the heretics, the Geth are worth 150 more war asset points than the Quarians. If you destroy them, the Quarians are worth 150 points more than the Geth. Either way, the total war assets you get if you make peace are the same regardless of what you did with the heretics.

I'll come clean: I've made peace before, but in my canon playthrough, I lost Legion in the Suicide Mission and shot the Geth VI three times. If you want to see what the Geth perspective looks like, unaltered by Legion's influence, I'd recommend a VI playthrough at some point. Legion and the Geth VI are the same entity; the latter simply has no memories from the Normandy.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

"Shepard, I caught Legion stealing data about the Migrant Fleet from my omni-tool. He was going to transmit it to the Geth!"

 

"The Quarians were performing experiments on the Geth. Would you not do the same to defend your people?"

 

"Shepard, you cannot allow this."

 

"Legion, don't send the data."

[KaiserShep]

Shepard: "Legion, send the data."

Tali: "Shepard!"

Shepard: "Ain't I a stinker?"

[Sir DeLoria]

@OP It's fine to destroy the Geth, there are no ramifications and the crew(except for EDI) loves you for it. If you can get peace, you can of course save both, but that sadly always requires Reaper tech to be used in the upgrade. Don't care about star brat, its opinion can't be altered no matter how much proof you bring forward.

@Julia You're not a bad person for shooting Legion, it's like busting a few caps in your old laptop

[SporkFu]

I dunno, if my laptop had the processing power to handle 1183 operating systems at once, I wouldn't shoot it.

[primarch3]

No. If you blew them up or reprogrammed them, how could they be back in ME3?

 Legion said that that was only some of the geth that joined the old machines some of the heretics were still out there you only reprogrammed or destroyed some of them

[shodiswe]

I rewote the Heretics and made peace, I had more Geth and less Quarians.

If you destroy the heretics you got less geth and more Quarians. I think it evens out in the end.
I could make peace between them no problems what so ever. Reprogramming the Heretics didn't affect my chances to make peace.

In the end It gave me more proper warships for earth and a fighting army, instead of a few extra evacuation transports from the Quarians.

Quarian ships are mostly glascannons that serve as evacuation transports.

In the end it doesn't matter at all, despite the descriptions it's all the same with warassets. Making peace is what gives you the most war assets.

If you kill of the Quarians nobody really cares, but you loose some warassets, and Tali, so I prefer to go for peace.

I actualy care more about Tali than the Quarian crazies that are following Gerrel to certain death. The Quarians should have staged a revolution and imprisoned or killed of those insane Admirals that are trying to get them killed for a second time.

[DeinonSlayer]

I actualy care more about Tali than the Quarian crazies that are following Gerrel to certain death. The Quarians should have staged a revolution and imprisoned or killed of those insane Admirals that are trying to get them killed for a second time.

Great. Then what?

The Geth severed channels before the Quarians invaded, so since they're not open to talks, what exactly would you expect them to do? The only "alternatives" I've ever seen posed are spontaneously pulling a dextro world suitable for settlement out of their butts, trying (and failing) to hide in space while contributing nothing to the Reaper war effort thus guaranteeing they'll either be chased down and killed or still homeless and even more hated after the war, or "you have reached the Citadel Council, please hold."

(I just know I'm gonna regret asking this...)

[primarch3]

I saved them cos Even though they have had reaper code put in them, it hasn't made them dangerous, it has just made them more 'human' and even though with the destroy ending they might die ( they are technically alive now and not true synthetics plus they could upload them selves into a suit or a pc to keep their software alive) now they are like organics on the inside but have metal shells, i guess you could call them cyborgs now?

[DeinonSlayer]

To me, the preferred outcome would have been peace without Reaper code. By using the code, they went back on just about everything they stood for. As Chris E'toile (who wrote them in ME1 and 2) put it, a story about an AI wishing to become "more human" is about as offensive as a story about a black man wanting to be white.

Why did they need to become "more organic" to be considered alive? I found them far more interesting before the introduction of the Pinocchio code.

Ah, well...

[voteDC]

Didn't the Reaper code essentially 'kill' the Geth?

It merged individual geth programs running in a mobile platform into one entity. Even Legion's geth programs didn't all agree on everything.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Didn't the Reaper code essentially 'kill' the Geth?

It merged individual geth programs running in a mobile platform into one entity. Even Legion's geth programs didn't all agree on everything.

No, it simply made each individual VI into an AI. There are still just as many Geth as there always were, just they are a lot smarter on their own now.

[voteDC]

No, it simply made each individual VI into an AI. There are still just as many Geth as there always were, just they are a lot smarter on their own now.

Legion wasn't one geth though, he was 1183 individual programs. He was capable of what he did in ME2 and 3 because of 1183 individual geth working together in a single mobile platform..

If other units had a similar amount in them then you go from 1183 geth to a single individual.

They aren't geth any longer really but a new species.

[shodiswe]

That depends on the definition of new species. I guess it would be one possible evolution of the Geth.

Geth Sapiens!

[CrutchCricket]

Great. Then what?

The Geth severed channels before the Quarians invaded, so since they're not open to talks, what exactly would you expect them to do? The only "alternatives" I've ever seen posed are spontaneously pulling a dextro world suitable for settlement out of their butts, trying (and failing) to hide in space while contributing nothing to the Reaper war effort thus guaranteeing they'll either be chased down and killed or still homeless and even more hated after the war, or "you have reached the Citadel Council, please hold."

(I just know I'm gonna regret asking this...)

 

Failing and not contributing? I think not. But for the sake of both our sanities, we can leave it here.

 

I rewrote the heretics because I needed everything pointed at the Reapers and the geth were the only, I repeat the only faction willing to unconditionally help me oppose them and the only one actually able to do so. The way it would've been if the quarians hadn't gone full retard and started a war that forced the geth into Reaper arms. But the quarian-geth animosity did need to be resolved, preferably before the Reapers showed up and I can see how they would never do it peacefully on their own. So maybe the crap we got is on Shepard who could've mediated and helped them reach peace without pointless waste of life and resources, but instead went full retard himself and twiddled his thumbs in an Alliance brig for six months.

 

Hmm... if so many events of your story happen because someone, somewhere is an idiot, maybe you need to rethink your story.

 

In terms of gameplay, you can rewrite and still make peace. Have both Legion and Tali loyal and do all Rannoch related side missions (Geth Fighter Squadron and rescuing Zal'Koris). That'll give you enough points.

[primarch3]

I would have preferred it if there was no reaper code either but working with how the story played out, I thought about if it would destroy what they stood for  but i remember legion always said we instead of I as if he was representing his people so im just gunna go on the asumption that they wanted the change and that they are still geth they are just capable of being smart on their own and don't need to join together and trust that they will serve and not go all terminator on people as they now know what war and suffering and freedom is. maybe if i play through the game again i might destroy them but for now im in the arcade trying to get to the top of the leader board  

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

If the Reaper upgrade really made each Geth runtime into an AI, then the collective should've been able to hack Reapers at will and turn them against the other Reapers. 

Seriously, each Reaper is described as "billions of organic minds." The Geth collective then becomes trillions of EDI-like minds. 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If the Reaper upgrade really made each Geth runtime into an AI, then the collective should've been able to hack Reapers at will and turn them against the other Reapers. 

Seriously, each Reaper is described as "billions of organic minds." The Geth collective then becomes trillions of EDI-like minds. 

 

It bound all the runtimes together in a geth unit with the reaper code and made them into an AI bound to the platform. They could now get a job, a mortgage, and raise little gethlings.... well if they could build them and write new code and stuff like that.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

It bound all the runtimes together in a geth unit with the reaper code and made them into an AI bound to the platform. They could now get a job, a mortgage, and raise little gethlings.... well if they could build them and write new code and stuff like that.

But, then what happens to all the runtimes stored in servers? 

Seriously, this whole reaper code-sentience thing is ridiculously stupid and a tab bit offensive. 

[Iakus]

But, then what happens to all the runtimes stored in servers? 

Seriously, this whole reaper code-sentience thing is ridiculously stupid and a tab bit offensive. 

 

Pinocchio complex:  Just the thing to turn a complex matter into a cariacture of itself.

[Obadiah]

I don't think it's ever made clear that the upgraded Geth are bound to their Geth platforms. The runtimes might still be sliding in and out of hardware at will (I think they do that with Quarian suits when peace is made). I don't think it is even clear that the platforms are a preferred state of existence for the Geth. Their goal may still be a super construct where they can interact with each other and share information.