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[cap and gown]

"ME3 is the best place to start the series."

There's no reason the synopsis they provided in ME3 couldn't include the perspective of both sides. Being as this was the penultimate chapter, it should have been where both sides put their best arguments forward, not a black-and-white Pinocchio story which coaxes players to one side by burying the other.
 

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. I started with ME3, knew nothing about the Quarians and Geth except what was in the game, and ended up siding with Tali. Without the Legion background there was still not enough going for the Geth for me to side with a bunch of machines over an organic species. You seem to have a skewed perspective because you didn't start with ME3.

[cap and gown]

Now, back on topic.

 

I have done this mission every which way but saving the hostages.

I have turned Balak over to the Alliance. (he comes back in 3 a kills a bunch more humans.)

I have left Balak to die. (he comes back in 3 and steals supplies to help his people.)

I have killed him. (the Balak stand-in steals supplies to help his people.)

 

I also let Charn go just once. All the other times he died.

 

Having just done it again, I came to a conclusion about how I would play this out depending on Shepard's background. Generally, I play as a colonist, either Sole Survivor or Ruthless. Interestingly, my Sole Survivor killed him while my Ruthless Shep turned him over to the Alliance. Ruthless was more concerned with intelligence gathering, while Sole Survivor was more interested in revenge. Ruthless is much more cold and calculating, while Sole Survivor is more emotion-driven.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I let him go. My Shepard appreciates a good challenge, and respects him. Far more than he respects or cares about the pathetic weaklings he ended up saving instead. He was able to convince Balak to put aside his hate and lead the Batarians for the war effort. 

[voteDC]

What I do with him has changed since I've played Mass Effect 3.

Before that I would always fight him and turn him over to the Alliance. I figured it'd be worth the intel we could get on the Batarians.

When I found out he'd be in ME3 no matter what I did, I started to save the hostages instead.

[cap and gown]

What I do with him has changed since I've played Mass Effect 3.

Before that I would always fight him and turn him over to the Alliance. I figured it'd be worth the intel we could get on the Batarians.

When I found out he'd be in ME3 no matter what I did, I started to save the hostages instead.

 

1) that is meta-gaming. Shepard cannot know in ME1 what will happen 2-3 years in the future.

 

2) Balak will not be in ME3 if you kill him in ME1.

[JerusPI]

I think he's saying to present both sides equally together at the same time. In ME2 the plight of the Quarians is presented in a sympathetic matter, but it gets hard to remember that in the sudden onslaught of the pro-Geth parade and the transformation of the Quarians into jerks who like to shoot at ships Shepard is on.

 

Same with the Genophage. There were actual good reasons why the Genophage was introduced beyond the idea that Turians are jerks and Salarians are racist jerks. But in the story it gets reduced to sabotaging the Genophage because Wreav can't be trusted (like Krogan behavior is completely dictated by those who lead them) or doing it to get Salarian aid.

I think the thing with the Genophage was done interestingly in the Citadel DLC. If you take the time to stroll through the archives and listen to them you can see some pretty interesting things including the first spectre. But the archive about the Genophage shows the salarian scientists who actually developed it objecting to using it and getting arrested and if i'm not mistaken {though i probably am} one opf the turians objects as well. Throughout the first two games they portrayed the decision to be a fairly unanimous decision and Mordin only starts having doubts when you rub his face in the results during his loyalty mission. But the archives show that even from the beginning there were people involved in it who were against the idea. If i'm right about the turian too it's something that people overlook {or maybe i'm wrong} but the Turian's seem to have a very strict system. Everyone has a place and as long as you prove your the best at what you do you'll raise to the top of that profession but thats it. The worlds best engineer decides to become an artist he's going to be considered a traitor to their culture. Which made things like the Turian saying he would disobey orders and send letters home to his family, the turian who was willing to quit C-Sec and go to palaven to help with the war and find his partner's family have more impact. That coupled with the various other conversations you overhear in the citadel and it stops being "this guy is a batarian that guy is a turian this girl is a quarian" and becomes they're all just people.  Part of what I hope was the devs intent with the MP being that while Shepard is big and famous curing the genophage and reuniting the geth and quarians and such Joe Human and Carsuss Turian are in the fields fighting for their lives. If you discount all conversations outside of the combat simulator in the silversun strips about being combat sims and instead being about the war itself {and rarely would a squad be deployed to a combat sim but i figured it'd needed saying]. It shows that Shepard may be the star of the game but he's not the only one out there fighting.

 

I do wish though we could have seen more batarian plot but like arrival and garrus said they got hit first right out the gate. So only the few moments we get to see is Balak, Terrorist on Life Support, Preacher, Bray, Mad Preacher, and the various Npcs around the game.

Would have also liked to see as Garrus rightly pointed out "What the reapers are doing to the hanar, or the drell, or the vorcha" Maybe even Elcor and Volus too.

 

On an unrelated note I was reading the article about Rana Thanoptis killing asari officials and it reminded me of a line from ME1. "You thin Indoctrination only affects the prisoners? Saren will want to dissect my brain too" it felt like she was trying to warn shepard she was already indoctrinated.

 

I do wish the Devs would have let us known what happened to Talitha from I remember me as of ME3. Oh and not named one of the normandys fallen "Talitha Draven"

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think the thing with the Genophage was done interestingly in the Citadel DLC. If you take the time to stroll through the archives and listen to them you can see some pretty interesting things including the first spectre. But the archive about the Genophage shows the salarian scientists who actually developed it objecting to using it and getting arrested and if i'm not mistaken {though i probably am} one opf the turians objects as well. Throughout the first two games they portrayed the decision to be a fairly unanimous decision and Mordin only starts having doubts when you rub his face in the results during his loyalty mission. But the archives show that even from the beginning there were people involved in it who were against the idea. If i'm right about the turian too it's something that people overlook {or maybe i'm wrong} but the Turian's seem to have a very strict system. Everyone has a place and as long as you prove your the best at what you do you'll raise to the top of that profession but thats it. The worlds best engineer decides to become an artist he's going to be considered a traitor to their culture. Which made things like the Turian saying he would disobey orders and send letters home to his family, the turian who was willing to quit C-Sec and go to palaven to help with the war and find his partner's family have more impact. That coupled with the various other conversations you overhear in the citadel and it stops being "this guy is a batarian that guy is a turian this girl is a quarian" and becomes they're all just people.  Part of what I hope was the devs intent with the MP being that while Shepard is big and famous curing the genophage and reuniting the geth and quarians and such Joe Human and Carsuss Turian are in the fields fighting for their lives. If you discount all conversations outside of the combat simulator in the silversun strips about being combat sims and instead being about the war itself {and rarely would a squad be deployed to a combat sim but i figured it'd needed saying]. It shows that Shepard may be the star of the game but he's not the only one out there fighting.

 

That archive is probably my least favorite part about the Citadel DLC. For one I think the deploy mechanic was actually a retcon. The genophage took several if not hundreds of covert drops to deploy, something that couldn't be done with a single button push and would instead require a complex political and military machination to accomplish. I also thought it was established that the decision was not made lightly but was ultimately thought necessary.

[DeinonSlayer]

That archive is probably my least favorite part about the Citadel DLC. For one I think the deploy mechanic was actually a retcon. The genophage took several if not hundreds of covert drops to deploy, something that couldn't be done with a single button push and would instead require a complex political and military machination to accomplish. I also thought it was established that the decision was not made lightly but was ultimately thought necessary.

It certainly couldn't have been accomplished by hitting Tuchanka alone, that much is certain. It'd be a drastic oversimplification.

[voteDC]

2) Balak will not be in ME3 if you kill him in ME1.

My mindset stops me shooting a defeated man even if I am playing a Renegade.

It's one of those weird points I just can't get past.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

It's like he wasn't even thinking before he spoke. I mean, telling the human soldier that he's just there to snag some slaves and got caught up in an act of genocide that he would have willingly gone along with save for this sudden threat against his life, and with zero leverage? He might as well just walk in with a bull's-eye on his chest.

 

My Shepard is the kind of guy who really doesn't give a damn about collateral damage. Charn's being useful, that's all my Shepard cares about. He wants to do what he does, feel free. I can't kill the guy for doing something I didn't see. It was the same for the ExoGeni scientists: a flash of credits made my Shepard's problem with them go away really fast.

[Bob from Accounting]

You know, I continue to hear these silly these silly accusations that the Dalatrass is a 'strawman,' that she fails to present a credible argument for the genophage.

 

Tell me. What argument, exactly, do genephage proponents have on this forum that she doesn't? Because it seems to me she does a very good job of representing people here.

[grey_wind]

It certainly couldn't have been accomplished by hitting Tuchanka alone, that much is certain. It'd be a drastic oversimplification.

I'm sure Cerberus was involved somehow. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

You know, I continue to hear these silly these silly accusations that the Dalatrass is a 'strawman,' that she fails to present a credible argument for the genophage.

 

Tell me. What argument, exactly, do genephage proponents have on this forum that she doesn't? Because it seems to me she does a very good job of representing people here.

 

I'd say that this is a spiteful attack against a mindset/opinion/perspective that you don't like because it goes against your idealism. It's how it always is.

[Bob from Accounting]

My Shepard is the kind of guy who really doesn't give a damn about collateral damage. Charn's being useful, that's all my Shepard cares about. He wants to do what he does, feel free. I can't kill the guy for doing something I didn't see. It was the same for the ExoGeni scientists: a flash of credits made my Shepard's problem with them go away really fast.

 

Do people like you realize how silly you make yourselves with posts like these?

 

Here you go, clumsily touting this pretend philosophy, and you gleefully tout your approval of simple thuggish bribery, proud as a peacock. I'm having difficulty understanding why you would even feign a facade of morality at all if it's really this fragile and weak.

 

It's posts like these which prove me 'evil' players are rightfully to be dismissed and laughed at.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Do people like you realize how silly you make yourselves with posts like these?

 

Here you go, clumsily touting this pretend philosophy, and you gleefully tout your approval of simple thuggish bribery, proud as a peacock. I'm having difficulty understanding why you would even feign a facade of morality of all it's really this fragile and weak.

 

It's posts like these which prove me 'evil' players are rightfully to be dismissed and laughed at.

 

Sorry David, I already accepted Jesus into my life. I don't subscribe to your religion or morality. Thanks, and have a great day. Try not to let the door hit you on the way out.

 

If the game thought it wasn't intrinsically wrong, it wouldn't have let me take such actions now right?

[Bob from Accounting]

Of course it would have.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Of course it would have.

 

Then it would have punished me for it right? People who do this in real life would be 'intrinsically punished' for it too don't you think? 

 

Your ignorance of a philosophy doesn't make it a pretend or unreal. You're just mad because I'm a sociopathic hero. 

[Bob from Accounting]

Quite the opposite. Seeing how right I am pleases me.

 

Bribery. Just about the weakest, most thuggish crime there is. Nary a step above a simple mugger. 

 

Of course, that's really what all these make-believe 'philosophies' boil down to. The worship and veneration of what's weak and fragile. It gives the worshippers a goal they're capable of achieving.

[KaiserShep]

My Shepard is the kind of guy who really doesn't give a damn about collateral damage. Charn's being useful, that's all my Shepard cares about. He wants to do what he does, feel free. I can't kill the guy for doing something I didn't see. It was the same for the ExoGeni scientists: a flash of credits made my Shepard's problem with them go away really fast.

The way I see it, Charn could say just about anything to survive, so I'd kill him in a heartbeat. He chose the wrong batarian to align himself with, and he had nothing to bargain for. I always kill the Exogeni folks too for the same reason. I won't be bribed by any of these jokers and if they resist then I guess they can say hello to a nice biotic punch. If they accepted their situation and went quietly there would have been no problem, but I guess they're as stubborn as I am.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Quite the opposite. Seeing how right I am pleases me.

 

Bribery. Just about the weakest, most thuggish crime there is. Nary a step above a simple mugger. 

 

Of course, that's really what all these make-believe 'philosophies' boil down to. The worship and veneration of what's weak and fragile. It gives the worshippers a goal they're capable of achieving.

 

I think you're just mad that someone doesn't buy into your concept of intrinsic heroism, and when challenged, you offer this as your explanation.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The way I see it, Charn could say just about anything to survive, so I'd kill him in a heartbeat. He chose the wrong batarian to align himself with, and he had nothing to bargain for. I always kill the Exogeni folks too for the same reason. I won't be bribed by any of these jokers and if they resist then I guess they can say hello to a nice biotic punch.

 

I just don't see a reason to kill them. If I did, it's because my Shepard would simply be in the mood to shoot somebody. Charn just wants out. He got in over his head, and he's willing to leave without a fight and go on back to Batarian space. Do I trust him to keep to his word? Yes and no. If he does, it's because he's got the fear of me in him. If he doesn't, it's because he realizes that I really can't stop him from coming back, but also that I just don't care. Same with the scientists: I don't personally see anything wrong with what they were doing. I thought it was useful information. A few credits is fine for me to forget that there were survivors.

[Darks1d3]

You know, I continue to hear these silly these silly accusations that the Dalatrass is a 'strawman,' that she fails to present a credible argument for the genophage.

Tell me. What argument, exactly, do genephage proponents have on this forum that she doesn't? Because it seems to me she does a very good job of representing people here.

*sigh*

David mentioning "straw man" and "fails to present a credible argument" in his own post that has nothing to do with the current discussion...oh the irony.

What was your purpose with this post David? First off, Deinon and Imaginary were merely using her 'straw man' argument and the fact that there was no one to make a credible argument for the genophage as an example in order to illustrate that the presentation of the Geth and Quarian war in ME3 was pretty one sided.

Second, while their discussion was a derail of the thread, you are merely adding to the derail.

Finally, you are once again resorting to personal attacks in order to get your point across, which has nothing to do with the current discussion anyways.

You keep spouting off that there are a lot of people
on this board who are immature and 'evil', yet you're the one who is constantly being antagonistic. You are also the only one who is acting like a child by throwing insults around without provocation. Every thread you enter gets derailed because of this. Like many, I use to find it amusing. Now it's just getting old and I'm getting tired of your arrogance and your crappy attitude.

You want people to act more mature? Than practice what you preach.

[Bob from Accounting]

Of course, this all goes back to my comments the other day about such a 'stance' being utterly and completely dependent on a super-duper character who can do anything because he's just that badass.

 

You see, Massively, you do subscribe to my morality. You bow down to it. Why? Because you have to. Because all of these pretend arguments of yours would crumble at the slightest pressure of any judge, any court, any process of law. You do it because people stronger than you say so. You bow. You know that, don't you? You know that. They give orders, and you obey.

 

That's why you're here, of course. Here, you can play out your fantasies of having nobody be stronger than you.

[TheTurtle]

Of course, this all goes back to my comments the other day about such a 'stance' being utterly and completely dependent on a super-duper character who can do anything because he's just that badass.

You see, Massively, you do subscribe to my morality. You bow down to it. Why? Because you have to. Because all of these pretend arguments of yours would crumble at the slightest pressure of any judge, any court, any process of law. You do it because people stronger than you say so. You bow. You know that, don't you? You know that.

That's why you're here, of course. Here, you can play out your fantasies of having nobody be stronger than you.

hahahahahahaha are... are you serious. That is legitimately the funniest thing I have ever read.

[Bob from Accounting]

Really? Do you deny any of these very simple facts?