122 réponses à ce sujet

[Jorji Costava]

Only Vince Lombardi can fully explain my reaction to where this thread has gone.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Of course, this all goes back to my comments the other day about such a 'stance' being utterly and completely dependent on a super-duper character who can do anything because he's just that badass.

 

You see, Massively, you do subscribe to my morality. You bow down to it. Why? Because you have to. Because all of these pretend arguments of yours would crumble at the slightest pressure of any judge, any court, any process of law. You do it because people stronger than you say so. You bow. You know that, don't you? You know that. They give orders, and you obey.

 

That's why you're here, of course. Here, you can play out your fantasies of having nobody be stronger than you.

 

Then that means you subscribe to mine then: Power is for those who wish it to be. And the people in power? They have a tendency to do the exact things I espouse. I know this, because I'm in the line of people doing those actions for them. 

 

That said, where do you fit into this whole scheme, hmm? You make it seem like you have power? Do you? I don't think you do. You're here for the same reason you've ascribed to me. You have the power to live out your black-and-white morals to make the world crafted in accordance to your idealistic and heroic compulsive tendencies.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Really? Do you deny any of these very simple facts?

 

I deny them, yes. You haven't presented anything more than an attack on a guy online for holding an opinion you don't like.

 

Reference my video for an abridged version of your reaction.

[JerusPI]

Edi said all of my concerns in ME3 about the Genophage.

 

Edi: If only one percent becomes fully fertile they will be able to birth ten billion infants.

Shepard: Back on earth bugs have a lot of young too alot of them die.

Edi: The attrition rate would naturally be high but the state has an interest in keeping them alive for warfare purposes.

 

 

Imagine Ten billon a year Wreavs, Uvenks, or other thuggish Krogan.

Now imagine Ten billion a year Charrs, Eves, and that really polite Krogan working on behalf of Mr. Thax in ME2.

 

I cure the genophage sure but I don't have to live with the consequences. If Krogan can manage their breeding rate without the genophage then it could be a Krogan rennewhatevericantspellitrightnow Singing, Dancing, Poetry. But if they can't manage that then the term "Starving Artist" will be depressingly literal. But of course this is the future we already have a solution for overpopulation..... just ask Thane about his people. And there's nothing to indicate the drell breed half has quickly as the krogan. Unless you take Mordin's advice about licking thane and getting hallucinations to imply Drell are like frogs and frogs have alot of children. But i'm no scientist all I know is overpopulation in pacifists and overpopulation in warmongers is still overpopulation. And thats the aspect of the genophage that worries me. But hey Shepard's dead s/he wont have to watch as Krogan take over Rannoch, Palaven, Earth, and Thessia because they need the resources to support their own race. The only upside I can see is Synthesis might rewrite the Krogan DNA to make them breed more moderately.

[themikefest]

 

It's posts like these which prove me 'evil' players are rightfully to be dismissed and laughed at.

Really. Look at this playthrough and tell me I'm evil. I got the same ending as everyone else. I did my job. Destroy the reapers.

[TheTurtle]

Really? Do you deny any of these very simple facts?

Yes. Yes I do. None of what you're saying is fact it is all a bunch of BS you try to preach and use for your ridiculous holier-than-thou arguments.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Of course, this all goes back to my comments the other day about such a 'stance' being utterly and completely dependent on a super-duper character who can do anything because he's just that badass.

 

You see, Massively, you do subscribe to my morality. You bow down to it. Why? Because you have to. Because all of these pretend arguments of yours would crumble at the slightest pressure of any judge, any court, any process of law. You do it because people stronger than you say so. You bow. You know that, don't you? You know that. They give orders, and you obey.

 

That's why you're here, of course. Here, you can play out your fantasies of having nobody be stronger than you.

 

Oh the delicious irony of this statement coming from the frequently banned David.

[Kenshen]

The first time I did Bring down the Sky I did kill the second in command.  Not just because he was a slaver thought that certainly didn't help.  Not knowing how things were going to play out I did let Balak go however it wasn't so much as to save the hostages but because I figured they would be needed in order to prevent the astroid from hitting the planet.

 

First time I encountered Balak in ME3 I let him live because I figured I would need what is left of his people and ships in the final battle.  Now that I know how that turns out I shoot him.

[DeinonSlayer]

Seeing how right I am pleases me.

Basking in your own self-righteousness. How humble.

Why the above line isn't in your signature, I don't know. It seems you've only ever come here (even after being banned twice) to find people to scoff at.

[TheTurtle]

I always kill the second in command if I'm playing a colonist or ruthless Shepard. I don't let Balak live about 89% of the time.

[DeinonSlayer]

I always kill the second in command if I'm playing a colonist or ruthless Shepard. I don't let Balak live about 89% of the time.

Balak has survived in exactly one of my four playthroughs.

Nolan: Arrested Balak on Terra Nova (shot in the chest during questioning). Recruited him in ME3.
Laura: Killed Balak on Terra Nova.
Jane: Shot Balak and left him to die on Terra Nova. Killed him in ME3.
Jayne: Saved the hostages. Killed him in ME3.

[BeastSaver]

I saved the hostages the first time, mainly because without BDtS, the cannon for ME2 is that Kate & crew die (an announcement about a memorial being held by her father can be heard on Omega), but Balak escapes. Then, in ME3 Balak is on the loose killing Alliance personnel. I didn't like that.

 

Now my Shepard always kills Balak to prevent him from trying to do it again. as well as his 2nd in command. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few (and I much prefer the Batarian who is trying to help his people in  ME3). Reading some of the posts regarding BDtS suggests that a particular play through with Balak actually has him helping his people instead of trying to harm the Alliance? Interesting!

 

My renegade, colonist Shepard has hatred toward the Batarians in general. S/he doesn't help the sick Batarian and always kills the ones holding Daniel hostage during the Mordin recruitment mission.

[JerusPI]

I saved the hostages the first time, mainly because without BDtS, the cannon for ME2 is that Kate & crew die (an announcement about a memorial being held by her father can be heard on Omega), but Balak escapes. Then, in ME3 Balak is on the loose killing Alliance personnel. I didn't like that.

 

Now my Shepard always kills Balak to prevent him from trying to do it again. as well as his 2nd in command. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few (and I much prefer the Batarian who is trying to help his people in  ME3). Reading some of the posts regarding BDtS suggests that a particular play through with Balak actually has him helping his people instead of trying to harm the Alliance? Interesting!

 

My renegade, colonist Shepard has hatred toward the Batarians in general. S/he doesn't help the sick Batarian and always kills the ones holding Daniel hostage during the Mordin recruitment mission.

 

 

I saved the hostages the first time, mainly because without BDtS, the cannon for ME2 is that Kate & crew die (an announcement about a memorial being held by her father can be heard on Omega), but Balak escapes. Then, in ME3 Balak is on the loose killing Alliance personnel. I didn't like that.

 

Now my Shepard always kills Balak to prevent him from trying to do it again. as well as his 2nd in command. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few (and I much prefer the Batarian who is trying to help his people in  ME3). Reading some of the posts regarding BDtS suggests that a particular play through with Balak actually has him helping his people instead of trying to harm the Alliance? Interesting!

 

My renegade, colonist Shepard has hatred toward the Batarians in general. S/he doesn't help the sick Batarian and always kills the ones holding Daniel hostage during the Mordin recruitment mission.

Putting together what you said and what others have said i'm guessing that  the original intention was if you Balak lives you meet him and hes using his access codes for evil If Balak is dead you meet another Batarian who is supposed to stand in for him like Legion 2.0 and the other replacements for dead me2 members are and he's helping his people.

 

But ME3's flag recognizing system goes "Eff it" and randomizes if the codes are used for evil or good and makes it Balak so long as he's still alive.

[General TSAR]

He's a blood thirsty ethnocentric asshat who would kill millions to avenge his species' humiliation.

 

My human supremacist Shepard is blushing something fierce. 

[JedTed]

My Colonial/Survivor Shep spared Balak and killed Charn(lieutenant).  He didn't want to see anyone else die at the hands of a batarian and killing Charn was enough of a catharsis for what he experienced on Mindoir.

 

My Shepard did take the 2nd chance to murder Balak which felt really good.  

[Daemul]

I killed him on my canon Shepard, it's idiotic letting a terrorist who could kill millions go just to save 3 people.

[Bob from Accounting]

What exactly do you imagine that means for the people on this very forum who gleefully delight in the opportunity to kill millions and defend it as moral?

[KaiserShep]

I killed him on my canon Shepard, it's idiotic letting a terrorist who could kill millions go just to save 3 people.

I would disagree that it's idiotic. I actually support the reasoning to kill him, and I'm always a bit conflicted about this choice, but ultimately I let him go because my intended goal was to save as many people as possible right that moment. I don't know what he would do in the future, or where he would go, but I do know that this was a crime of opportunity, not some master plan that he formulated, since he had nothing to do with the setup on this asteroid in the first place. Taking that into consideration, I was willing to take the risk if that meant being able to bring more people out alive. Whatever happens later in the series doesn't really affect my decision, because I won't roleplay Shepardamus.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

What exactly do you imagine that means for the people on this very forum who gleefully delight in the opportunity to kill millions and defend it as moral?

 

I don't know professor David, tell us what it means in your imagination!

[FlyingSquirrel]

The weirdest thing about that whole sequence, IMO, is the Paragon/Renegade dynamic with Charn, the second-in-command. The Paragon (or maybe it was neutral) reply to him is "I didn't think you Batarians knew the meaning of the word [peace]" (implied racial/speciesist stereotyping) while Renegade is "I have nothing to say to a Batarian terrorist." Then, after Balak makes his offer - I'm admittedly paraphrasing, but the Paragon speech option is "Why don't you forget Balak and be an independent criminal?" while the Renegade option is "You can take your best shot at me or you can leave and give me access to the main facility," and then you still get Paragon points for either of them.

 

I suppose the Renegade choice carries an implied threat, but there's an implied threat in the very presence of Shepard's squad intent on stopping whatever the batarians are doing - Shepard hardly needs to be a Renegade to point out that his/her squad will fight back if Charn's group attacks them instead of leaving, and suggesting that Charn could be a more successful criminal without Balak around certainly isn't very principled.

[JerusPI]

The weirdest thing about that whole sequence, IMO, is the Paragon/Renegade dynamic with Charn, the second-in-command. The Paragon (or maybe it was neutral) reply to him is "I didn't think you Batarians knew the meaning of the word [peace]" (implied racial/speciesist stereotyping) while Renegade is "I have nothing to say to a Batarian terrorist." Then, after Balak makes his offer - I'm admittedly paraphrasing, but the Paragon speech option is "Why don't you forget Balak and be an independent criminal?" while the Renegade option is "You can take your best shot at me or you can leave and give me access to the main facility," and then you still get Paragon points for either of them.

 

I suppose the Renegade choice carries an implied threat, but there's an implied threat in the very presence of Shepard's squad intent on stopping whatever the batarians are doing - Shepard hardly needs to be a Renegade to point out that his/her squad will fight back if Charn's group attacks them instead of leaving, and suggesting that Charn could be a more successful criminal without Balak around certainly isn't very principled.

I wouldnt know that. The first time he talked to me and said he was a slaver I said "Thats enough for me" and killed him. Now in days when i'm across the room and he says "this doesnt have to end in violence" I whip out my gun and blow him away before he even gets a chance to present his argument. Admittedly in character this eliminates the reason I kill him since he never gets a chance to admit to being a slaver but it's a bit fulfilling meta wise

[Obadiah]

That whole sequence with Charn is strange starting with his comment, "This doesn't have to end in bloodshed." Really? And if Shep hadn't showed up? Entire planet destroyed?

[KaiserShep]

That whole sequence with Charn is strange starting with his comment, "This doesn't have to end in bloodshed." Really? And if Shep hadn't showed up? Entire planet destroyed?

 

It makes sense that Charn would try to find a way out alive once he's left Balak's side. In his place, I'd be inclined to do the same and might say anything if it meant survival. My Shepard was not the right one to make any proposals to, however.

[congokong]

To me Balak is another symptom of the paragon = "instant win" dynamic of ME. There are no known repercussions for letting him go in BDtS and he can even join your cause in ME3 by increasing your near worthless war assets further than without him. It would certainly be a blow to paragon Shepards to learn he flung another asteroid at a colony after ME1 or perhaps something less detrimental; knowing it could have been prevented by not negotiating with him. Many would then meta-game on their next playthrough by killing him in BDtS.

 

Note: I've never let him go nor spared his slaver 2nd in command. The moment he dismissively wanted a "mere slave grab" I always said "That's reason enough for me" and killed him.

 

As for being sympathetic to Balak's cause, we don't really know enough regarding details of colony rights between batarians/humans. Balak believes those colonies "should have been ours" without elaboration so he justifies murdering millions pretty much out of spite. To me that's atrocious.

[DeinonSlayer]

@congokong
Well, if you let Balak go, he uses the Batarian embassy codes to remotely shut down a dozen life-support machines and causes a passenger ship carrying over 100 Alliance soldiers to crash (none of which is reflected in your war assets). If you arrested him or left him to die, he uses the codes to secure medicine and food for Batarian refugees. His "softening" makes little sense, but he technically does kill more people if you let him go than if you don't.