746 réponses à ce sujet

[Mockingword]

Not necessarily: blood being a component of magic isn't necessarily the same as the concept of what blood magic entails. If the chantry concept of blood magic is 'mind control or fuel source for harmful magics', then as long as the phylacterie isn't considered a harmful magic (or the blood isn't used as the fuel source) it wouldn't qualify by the definition.

I'd sure like to know under what context a tracking spell for the purpose of hunting and killing fellow human beings could be considered anything other than 'harmful'.

[dragonflight288]

I'd sure like to know under what context a tracking spell for the purpose of hunting and killing fellow human beings could be considered anything other than 'harmful'.

 

Offically they are supposed to track down apprentices who run away, and bring them back to the Circle like they did with Anders.

 

Unless they declare them maleficar for whatever reason like they did with Aneirin. 

[Mockingword]

When you dig up a source that say that, feel free to present, until then?

 

Its conjecture.

My source is logical deduction. Phylacteries require blood to work. It's not just "a component" it is the vital component. Hence, they are powered by blood.

 

If the spell could be done with hair or nail clippings, then why doesn't the Chantry do it that way instead? Do they just like cutting children? Because I wouldn't put it past them.

[Master Warder Z_]

Offically they are supposed to track down apprentices who run away, and bring them back to the Circle like they did with Anders.

 

Unless they declare them maleficar for whatever reason like they did with Aneirin. 

 

Because he was an insane blood mage bent on resurrecting the Ancient Elven Slave Empire?

 

._. Anerin main antagonist for DAI!

[Wolfen09]

i dont think they would bring back such an obscure character.... especially with wynne dead

[Master Warder Z_]

My source is logical deduction. Phylacteries require blood to work. It's not just "a component" it is the vital component. Hence, they are powered by blood.

 

If the spell could be done with hair or nail clippings, then why doesn't the Chantry do it that way instead? Do they just like cutting children? Because I wouldn't put it past them.

 

Logical deduction? Funny, basically personal musings given that Logic in so far as personal "dedication" aka perspective isn't universal, so you may as well say my own opinion it because that's what it is.

 

And I'd argue given we have no idea what spells go into the process its a gross assumption to automatically label it blood magic when we have no idea if it even is.

 

By Chantry Definition.

[Master Warder Z_]

i dont think they would bring back such an obscure character.... especially with wynne dead

 

T'was a joke.

 

Templars at least back in DAO were generally at least right half of the time on blood magic usage though, Wouldn't be surprised if the elf "dabbled" got caught and bolted.

[Dean_the_Young]

 

I know. I'm simply pointing out that the Chantry and the templars are kind of hypocrites when it comes to who's allowed to use blood magic, or even what blood magic is. 

 

 

Being the rule maker on what conditions something is acceptable doesn't make you a hypocrite unless you violate the rules that apply to you. Which the doesn't apply if the rule makers define blood magic in such a way that phylateries don't fit the definition. Or if the rules they make have a caveat that 'under these circumstances you can do that under sanction and supervision by the authorities.'

 

 

 

They generally consider any type of magic that isn't taught at the Circles to be practiced by maleficars, the codex entry on apostates outright states that they treat all apostates as maleficarum despite the fact that they may never have touched blood magic in their lives. Wynne, Leliana and Alistair all call Morrigan a maleficar because she practices shapeshifting, a school of magic thought completely impossible by Circle Mages, but has nothing to do with blood at all, and is an apostate, and not because she's an active blood mage. 

 

And? This is an argument that they are too suspicious (though considering Morrigan, I think that's perfectly valid), but it's not an argument of hypocrisy. Apostates aren't hunted because they are confused with maleficar: apostates are hunted down because they are apostates in a context of the Circle systems.

 

 

They change the definition of what a blood mage is based entirely on whether the mage is an apostate or if they practice a school of magic not taught at the Circle's. The codex on apostates say that the line between apostate and maleficar is deliberately blurred so they are treated as the same. 

 

Sure- the circle system equates bad mages of one sort (those who use unsanctioned forbidden magics) with bad mages of another sort (mages who are opposing the system). This doesn't mean that the Circle isn't valid in banning or condemning bad mages of the first sort.

 

 

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with phylactery's whatsoever. I'm just a little annoyed that they refuse to call it for what it is. Phylactery's are powered by blood and therefore is blood magic. Limited to the mage in question, but blood magic nonetheless. 

 

 

By whose definition of blood magic?

 

 

Phylactery's are tools used by the templars and aren't very harmful. Evangeline in Asunder says it's a form of blood magic, even David Gaider said they're a form of blood magic. I take Gaider's word over everyone else's when it comes to the lore of Dragon Age. 

 

I'm not annoyed that they use them, but that they don't call them for what they are. 

 

 

Okay. Phylacteries, and the Joining Ritual, are sanctioned forms of blood magic.

 

What does this have to do with condemning people suspected of practicing unsanctioned blood magic?

[Wolfen09]

We will probably never know, its "Gone with the Wynne."  There was potential there though, i would rather have had him than solas.... at least anerin had hair

[EmissaryofLies]

Who are you all kidding? Even if you bring up the Gaider quote it will not be enough to prove the point. They'll claim some other sort of technicality or misinterpretation. 

 

Kindly move on to something else, we've reached an impasse. 

[Master Warder Z_]

We will probably never know, its "Gone with the Wynne."  There was potential there though, i would rather have had him than solas.... at least anerin had hair

 

HAIR!

[dragonflight288]

Not necessarily: blood being a component of magic isn't necessarily the same as the concept of what blood magic entails. If the chantry concept of blood magic is 'mind control or fuel source for harmful magics', then as long as the phylacterie isn't considered a harmful magic (or the blood isn't used as the fuel source) it wouldn't qualify by the definition.

 

And yet they would consider Finn's scrying for eluvians blood magic. 

[Master Warder Z_]

And yet they would consider Finn's scrying for eluvians blood magic. 

 

Not according to Finn himself.

 

He said it was certainly a gray area because it involved blood, i played witch hunt just a week ago.

[dragonflight288]

Not according to Finn himself.

 

He said it was certainly a gray area because it involved blood, i played witch hunt just a week ago.

 

And then he asks the Warden and Ariane if they could keep it to themselves after calling it a Grey Area because some in the Chantry would call it blood magic. 

[Mockingword]

Not according to Finn himself.

 

He said it was certainly a gray area because it involved blood, i played witch hunt just a week ago.

And if someone tells you the sky isn't blue, will you consider that a valid basis for arguing against people that say it is?

[Wolfen09]

the sky isnt blue?!  So im not crazy....  hooray for blood soaked skies!

[Dean_the_Young]

And yet they would consider Finn's scrying for eluvians blood magic. 

Is his scrying sanctioned?

[Dean_the_Young]

And then he asks the Warden and Ariane if they could keep it to themselves after calling it a Grey Area because some in the Chantry would call it blood magic. 

 

Which doesn't contradict what he said earlier about it being a grey area. And implicitly acknowledges that others would not call it blood magic (1-some = rest).

 

Which really just means he didn't want the controversy, not that he was doing something explicitly illegal.

[AresKeith]

I don't think free mages will equal another Tevinter

 

But then again I'm not for total mage freedom either 

[Mockingword]

Is his scrying sanctioned?

This sounds like a tacit acknowledgement that the only functional difference between "blood magic" and "legitimate" magic is the arbitrary judgement of Chantry officials.

[Wolfen09]

Well, i assume they would allow it because i think he mentions that he was taught about it and i assume how to do it... however they are taught about blood magic, but not how to do it so....

[Dean_the_Young]

And if someone tells you the sky isn't blue, will you consider that a valid basis for arguing against people that say it is?

 

If it's night? Or cloud cover? Or dusk? Or a a dust storm?

 

There are plenty of times the sky isn't blue. It's something that deserves context and caveats, but is certainly a valid basis for arguing people saying that it is.

[dragonflight288]

Is his scrying sanctioned?

 

Not really. He decides to do it on a whim and asks the Warden and Ariane to keep it secret. 

[Wolfen09]

now we are just arguing semantics, the sky is there, thats all that matters

[dragonflight288]

now we are just arguing semantics, the sky is there, thats all that matters

 

And so is blood as a power source, but apparently using it as a power source is not blood magic if it's not a mage using it. *shrug*