746 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

I doubt non mage doctors are nearly as effective. There are no good antiseptics in such a primitive society.

 

Infection would still kill more than actual war wounds.

 

True.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

-Entire circle tower in ferelden -  That is blatantly false. 

-half of mages from circle in kirkwall -   Disagree and the abominations that did appear were entirely Meredith and her army's doing. 

-Grace and her peoples - Grace, sure, Decimus was not an abomination. 

-Tarone (that was her name?) and her peoples - Not true either. 

-baroness - Okay

-connor - Okay

-nameless abomnation on the road in ferelden - Gameplay story segregation or are you referring to when mages sent the warden after said roderick/abomination?

-huon - Not true

-evelina - Because of templars, true. 

-Anders - He wasn't a dangerous abomination in the sense that you believe. He only really lost it when in Templar capital that just happens to preside over a hellmouth. 

-Wynne - Seriously?

-Gaxkang - Okay

-Olivia - Once again, hounded until she became an abomination at Templar hands. 

 

 

With the exception of arguably five cases, the whole of these accusations are misleading at best.  You're also not crediting the mages who didn't become abominations. You know, the circle of kirkwall until Meredith lost her mind. Morrigan, Bethany, Malcolm, Merrill, Velana, The Mages' Collective, The Mages you raise to fight the Archdemon. Just to name a few. 

 

1-Eee play the game broken circle quest... if you want to be more specific almost all mages were killed or possessed.

2.Of course best is throw way blame on templar because of mages plight when they live in luxuries damn if they lived life common man in thedas abomnations would be everywhere plight my ass not plight...

3.But her peoples in thrid act were outside abomnation desimus was just another insane power hungry blood mage so just another danger but i will put here only abomnations.

4.So you want tell me that she was was normal mage well good to know when mage doesn't need abomnation to act like one but pretty sure that she is abomnation as she acts as one and no one normal acts like insane omnicidal maniac.

5.yep

6.yep

7.Not gameplay and story segregation because it is actual quest.

8.So you want tell me he was fu*** psycho without abomnation please humans don't even act that way unless they are screwd up to a maximum he was abomnation no other explanation.

9.No because she was weak and wanted help i wonder what she would do if she was attacked by bandits or slavers so good luck if you want justify abomnations just because they were attacked.

10.No? he was slowly tunring into psycho not to mention his a growing obsession just compare da 2 anders to daa anders in the end guy blew up chantry because he would destroy everyone in the world for his case.

11.Yep pretty much shown in asunder not to mention stupidity by allowing spirit/demon to possess her.

12.yep

13.You know that templras had little reason with her becoming abomnation?Pretty much she was attacked by slavers and then turned into abomnation for the hell of it.Thedas is dangerous place so good luck with trying to justify evelina and olivia.

 

Merril please don't make me laugh desperate attempt she fell to pirde demons 2 times only thing that was preventing her becoming another abomnation was plot armor.

 

Yes mages collective who send us to fight with abomnation not to mention ther suspicious activity with blood magic.

 

And poor day is for you if you have put insane elf who kills humans in insanity and rage and then when her stupidity is proven she doesn't care about that.Pretty much one of many reasons why mages should be killed. Besides that they weren't possessed yet doesn't mean they won't merril was in very good route if not her plot armor. Oh you can add to the list Marethari as well

 

pretty much most of you mentioned had plot armor.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Uhm.. Tevinter slavery ahvn't changed at all through the ages. The owner has compelte and total control over the lives of his slaves. That means that he can both use them as sacrifice for his blood magic, or to build him a grand cathedral in his honor. So yeah, "ancient Tevinter slavery" and "modern Tevinter slavery" is a meaningless distinction to make, since it hasn't changed at all.

 

Tevinter also had knowledge of Blood Magic long before the first Darkspawn appeared. And the Elves had nothing to do with the creation of the Grey Wardens.

 

There is also nothing to indicate that magic is just a matter of genetics and evolution, so your claim that "there will naturally come more and more mages" as if that mages will one day outnumber mundanes is completely unsupported. As a matter of fact, even if it was a question of evolution, then mages being the naturally superior evolution to ****** sapiens, is also completely unsupproted, since mages have proven to have a staggering mortality rate without proper trainning. Meaning that in antural environments mages would ahve a higher mortality rate than mundanes, meaning MUNDANES would eventually outnumber mages. Which they coincidentally do now.

 

So yeah... Read more up on the lore.

 1)No they(Magisters or Tevinter non-mages Lords or just wealthy non-mages citizens) are not have total control over the lives of their slaves and they cant sacrifice(and why they need to do so if as we know that many do bloodletting and all slaves lives) them for blood magic(death penalty if someone will know)  and sold to others(death penalty if someone will know)..and they does not have many of them and they are too expensive to be just killed or to be builders or work in mines, for heavy works Tevinter have prisoners of war such as Qunari

 

"Dwarves are thus far not known to be kept as slaves in the Imperium, presumably due to their upstanding relations they held with them for millennia as well as for their fundamental importance in providing the Imperium with lyrium.

 

Slaves can only legally be set free before a judge, with the owner present to formally state the slaves have been granted freedom, or by the owner's will upon his or her death. These emancipated slaves are known as Liberati, a subclass with limited rights and are not considered citizens. Liberati can join a Circle of Magi or serve as an apprentice in trade. Liberati may also own property, but cannot join the military or have a say in governance.

 

Slaves are not allowed to own property or serve in the military. Many of them are skilled workers who have been trained in a profession. However, they are not considered artisans, nor can they keep apprentices. Even whenarmed and serving as professional soldiers or bodyguards, slaves are not honored with military ranks.

 

 Slave hunters may capture elves in other nations (where, for the most part, slavery is illegal) and smuggle them into the Imperium, but those who are caught doing so are executed and made an example of. Those slaves who are sold on the black market are considered "non-contract" slaves, and have the worst living conditions of all."

 

this is far better what other slaves and some "non-slaves" have in other parts of Thedas especially in Orlais and Antiva/Rivain

 

2)knowledge of blood magic existed for the long time before humans exiles who arrived in Thedas. it was known by elves and deamons not talking about Old Gods, humans know about blood magic before Ancient Tevinter was a kingdom like Neromedian and others

 

No, they do..

 

"...elven slaves also contributed ancient knowledge from Arlathan. This was in return for being treated as equals in the order and with the intention that, after the Blight was ended, they would concentrate on freeing the elves. "

 

3)who controls the magic-controls the world of Thedas and can control the minds and memorys of many non-mages with a bottle of high dragon blood and Magralens

 

"Magic originates from the Fade, the realm where spirits dwell and humans, qunari, and elves visit when they dream. Mana is a measurement of one's ability to channel energy from the Fade, and this energy is expended in the practice of magic. Just as the Fade can be reshaped by those who have grasped its nature, so can the world of Thedas be manipulated by magic. The ability of a living being to expend mana is what defines a mage.[2][3]

 

The act of drawing power from the Fade can draw the attention of the spiritual beings on the other side of the Veil, leading to an increased risk of demonic possession if the mages are not vigilant enough. Abominations are rare and are usually created when a weak mage enters the Fade and is exposed to a demon's influence. A possessed mage becomes a distortion of his or her former self, a twisted monster known as an abomination that has enough power to wipe entire villages off the map.While it is possible to free someone who has been possessed, this is rarely done due to the risks involved in such an attempt.[10] The mages who are not yet fully possessed can be saved by using the Litany of Andralla. However, demons do not only possess the living. Demons may occasionally possess non-mortal forms to escape the Fade, as well. Trees, for example, may become corrupted. This has the interesting side effect of avoiding the madness usually associated with demonic possession of mortal or sentient beings

 

With the proper training however, Mages are capable of manipulating the basic elements, such as conjuring gouts of flame and small, localized ice and electrical storms. There are also spells that allow for the temporary reanimation of corpses and the draining of an opponent's life-force. More altruistic Mages can use their powers to help and heal, or summon benevolent spirits in times of need. Though they are often ostracized to the point of persecution, mages are key for everyday life in Thedas. They serve as its healers, scholars, scientists, and weapons of war."

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That text! My eyes! 

[Asdrubael Vect]

That text! My eyes! 

you did not have them anyway as i see   but i deal with stupid format so now it would be normal

[Hanako Ikezawa]

you did not have them anyway as i see  

If you mean my avatar, I just over-exerted them during training. They'll be fine in a few days.

[DKJaigen]

You mean it was a good thing that the monasteries and the arabs had enough brain pwoer to actually realize that knowledge was important? It wasn't the Nobles of Europe that rediscovered the old secrets of the Romans and the Greeks. The nobles of the world did disapeparingly little to actually do scientific research. Instead they would hire a "learned man" to handle such matters for them, and eventually teach them.

 

The church and Arabs preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and Romans but did not act on it. The  kickstarter for the renaissance where the Italian nobility and merchants. this was further enhanced when Greek scholars fleeing the sacking of Constantinople . Back then the scientist where drawn from both the nobility and wealthy middle class. For example da Vinci himself was an Italian noblemen (with an illegitimate background but that's another story)

[Lotion Soronarr]

You mean King Radical? The erstwhile Chuck Goodrich, Duke Sicknasty of Spades?

he was a chrononaut dude

 

[Lotion Soronarr]

The church and Arabs preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and Romans but did not act on it. The  kickstarter for the renaissance where the Italian nobility and merchants. this was further enhanced when Greek scholars fleeing the sacking of Constantinople . Back then the scientist where drawn from both the nobility and wealthy middle class. For example da Vinci himself was an Italian noblemen (with an illegitimate background but that's another story)

 

Printing press and increased wealth/commerce is what kick-started it.

 

The fall of Rome was basically and apocalyptic scenario. It takes time for the world to re-build. Pure survival comes before intellectual pursuits. The reason why so many scientists were monks or nobles was because they were the only ones who had the time and means to do so.

[EmissaryofLies]

1-Eee play the game broken circle quest... if you want to be more specific almost all mages were killed or possessed.

2.Of course best is throw way blame on templar because of mages plight when they live in luxuries damn if they lived life common man in thedas abomnations would be everywhere plight my ass not plight...

3.But her peoples in thrid act were outside abomnation desimus was just another insane power hungry blood mage so just another danger but i will put here only abomnations.

4.So you want tell me that she was was normal mage well good to know when mage doesn't need abomnation to act like one but pretty sure that she is abomnation as she acts as one and no one normal acts like insane omnicidal maniac.

5.yep

6.yep

7.Not gameplay and story segregation because it is actual quest.

8.So you want tell me he was fu*** psycho without abomnation please humans don't even act that way unless they are screwd up to a maximum he was abomnation no other explanation.

9.No because she was weak and wanted help i wonder what she would do if she was attacked by bandits or slavers so good luck if you want justify abomnations just because they were attacked.

10.No? he was slowly tunring into psycho not to mention his a growing obsession just compare da 2 anders to daa anders in the end guy blew up chantry because he would destroy everyone in the world for his case.

11.Yep pretty much shown in asunder not to mention stupidity by allowing spirit/demon to possess her.

12.yep

13.You know that templras had little reason with her becoming abomnation?Pretty much she was attacked by slavers and then turned into abomnation for the hell of it.Thedas is dangerous place so good luck with trying to justify evelina and olivia.

 

Merril please don't make me laugh desperate attempt she fell to pirde demons 2 times only thing that was preventing her becoming another abomnation was plot armor.

 

Yes mages collective who send us to fight with abomnation not to mention ther suspicious activity with blood magic.

 

And poor day is for you if you have put insane elf who kills humans in insanity and rage and then when her stupidity is proven she doesn't care about that.Pretty much one of many reasons why mages should be killed. Besides that they weren't possessed yet doesn't mean they won't merril was in very good route if not her plot armor. Oh you can add to the list Marethari as well

 

pretty much most of you mentioned had plot armor.

 

As per usual, I take objection with most of the things written here. So I'll focus on what we can work with. 

 

In regards to Merrill every last companion besides Anders fell to the pride demon in the Feynreil quest. 

 

The Mages Collective that lends credibility to the fact that it is possible for mages to look after themselves? I find no fault with them so far into the narrative. 

 

Marethari became an abomination to protect someone, it was a stupid notion with a good heart at the center of it. She did not lose control of herself. At least not provably so. 

 

If you want to talk about plot armor, it is only fair to speak of plot stupidity. Grace suffered from plot stupidity, I can add Orsino to the list of exceptions because the only reason he became an abomination was for a boss fight, this is according to devs. 

 

I can say that Connor was a child and not at fault. If anyone is to blame it's that conniving, horrendous screeching b*tch Isolde. The stars aligned with Connor. If abominations were as plentiful as you believe them to be, would not you have heard of them regularly destroying towns? Would not apostates be turning Abomination when the bartender spills their drink?

 

They are not the norm. The devs simply wanted to give you something to kill for the most part...Or do you believe that Carta dwarves are millions in number as per Dragon Age II? 

[MisterJB]

Uhm.... What? Isn't Olivia Thrask's daughter... Who was smuggled OUT of the Circle and sold into slavery and was hounded by PIRATES?

I don't think she was actually in the Circle. Her letter claims her father concealed her secret so, I assume Thrask; being the bleeding heart he is; kept her away from the Circle.

Which lead to her receiving no training which lead to her becoming an Abominations in the same week she escapes from her father's protection.

Shocking.

[Cobra's_back]

The Circle, Chantry and Templar system is flawed. It doesn't have to be destroyed but I'm not surprised by what happened. The Circle of Ferelden had different groups. Some very loyal to the system and died trying to save it. The bigger question is why so many were against it?

 

When I told Wynne she lived in a pretty prison she said that the circle protects children from getting killed because town's folk would kill a child with magic even if the child did nothing wrong. There is a need for the Circle. 

 

How come the circle isn't working? For this let's look at the Chantry. Mages are not allowed to have a family. Your child will be taken away. No family no stability for the majority of the mages. There will be a minority of mages that will continue to be a problem but if 3/4 of the mages are committed to having the circle work they will help the templars when trouble happens. First Enchanter Irving, Wynne and other were trying to fight the blood mages. The key was trying to find a way to get more mages supporting the system. Some of the mages we met just want a family. This doesn't seem like a hard thing to provide. So why isn't it allowed?

 

 

Could it be the system can't pay for families? That would be interesting. Could more time have been sectioned off for mages to produce goods and therefore pay for themselves and their families. It seemed only the tranquil did this? Could it be that they wanted the mages as a backup army?  There is the corruption. A system that hates magic but just can't do without it as well. If they really wanted to all mages should have been learning trade skills, having families and studying magic. This would have made them more balance but that is not what the system wanted. It wanted them as weapons ready to be used when needed.

 

 

How about the Templars addiction? Alistair plainly stated lyrium was not needed. The Chantry did it to control the templars. The system needs some checks and balances so that someone can sound the alarm when corruption happens. We now have Red Templars. The power hungry Chantry caused this. I don't think the system needs to be destroyed but it does need to change.

[Cobra's_back]

 

 

Pretty much one of many reasons why mages should be killed. Besides that they weren't possessed yet doesn't mean they won't merril was in very good route if not her plot armor. Oh you can add to the list Marethari as well

 

pretty much most of you mentioned had plot armor.

 

Your solution will not work. Many nobles have mage children. They are not going to turn them over to be killed. Humans produce mage children and hide them if needed. We have already seen cases of this.

[Cobra's_back]

I don't think she was actually in the Circle. Her letter claims her father concealed her secret so, I assume Thrask; being the bleeding heart he is; kept her away from the Circle.

Which lead to her receiving no training which lead to her becoming an Abominations in the same week she escapes from her father's protection.

Shocking.

 

He did this because the system was flawed and he wasn't the only one. In the last book just published we have another character hide his magic child and he was anything but a bleeding heart.

[Cobra's_back]

As per usual, I take objection with most of the things written here. So I'll focus on what we can work with. 

 

In regards to Merrill every last companion besides Anders fell to the pride demon in the Feynreil quest. 

 

The Mages Collective that lends credibility to the fact that it is possible for mages to look after themselves? I find no fault with them so far into the narrative. 

 

Marethari became an abomination to protect someone, it was a stupid notion with a good heart at the center of it. She did not lose control of herself. At least not provably so. 

 

If you want to talk about plot armor, it is only fair to speak of plot stupidity. Grace suffered from plot stupidity, I can add Orsino to the list of exceptions because the only reason he became an abomination was for a boss fight, this is according to devs. 

 

I can say that Connor was a child and not at fault. If anyone is to blame it's that conniving, horrendous screeching b*tch Isolde. The stars aligned with Connor. If abominations were as plentiful as you believe them to be, would not you have heard of them regularly destroying towns? Would not apostates be turning Abomination when the bartender spills their drink?

 

They are not the norm. The devs simply wanted to give you something to kill for the most part...Or do you believe that Carta dwarves are millions in number as per Dragon Age II? 

 

Boy did you hit it on the nail. Plot stupidity free for all. The game DA2 was painful and I'm a big fan of the books and DAO.

[Master Warder Z_]

He did this because the system was flawed and he wasn't the only one. In the last book just published we have another character hide his magic child and he was anything but a bleeding heart.

 

He did it because he couldn't think objectively, mages with out training are more dangerous then any other being the average person could encounter in Thedas,

 

And Thrask isn't any one to comment on the validity of the system giving he sought to Usurp it the entirety of his presentation in Dragon Age 2.

[EmissaryofLies]

To make it better. Hardly an unworthy goal. His methods weren't the best, but he did the best that he could. 

[Master Warder Z_]

To make it better. Hardly an unworthy goal. His methods weren't the best, but he did the best that he could. 

 

Tolerating corruption because he sought to impose his view?

 

His foundation was based on hypocrisy and weakness of character.

 

His goal was lacking as was he.

 

Should be forgotten about.

[Cobra's_back]

He did it because he couldn't think objectively, mages with out training are more dangerous then any other being the average person could encounter in Thedas,

 

And Thrask isn't any one to comment on the validity of the system giving he sought to Usurp it the entirety of his presentation in Dragon Age 2.

 

The book said he did it because he knew the system was in trouble and about to fall apart. He was right it did.

 

As i stated above I believe in the circle. I feel it needs reform.

[EmperorSahlertz]

While the attempt to improve the lives of everyone is a worthy goal, instigating a rebellion, turning to blood magic and kidnapping is not the way to achieve it. He should ahve gone through the proper channels, complain to the Grand Cleric, and then the Divine if the Grand Cleric wouldn't listen. He could ahve contacted the Seekers aswell. All of it would ahve been perfectly legal and within his capabilities.

[Cobra's_back]

Tolerating corruption because he sought to impose his view?

 

His foundation was based on hypocrisy and weakness of character.

 

His goal was lacking as was he.

 

Should be forgotten about.

 

He didn't know the extent of the corruption. He was going after Meredith. She wasn't the only problem.

[Master Warder Z_]

The book said he did it because he knew the system was in trouble and about to fall apart. He was right it did.

 

As i stated above I believe in the circle. I feel it needs reform.

 

Was speaking of Thrask, not Bioware's billionth "pity mages" character.

 

Good for you? I do as well, There will likely be many once this rebellion is crushed.

[Master Warder Z_]

He didn't know the extent of the corruption. He was going after Meredith. She wasn't the only problem.

 

So he was blind and stupid? He was the man to lead these people to utopia? And Meredith was given a corrupt circle and a worthless First Enchanter.

 

Pity that Annulment didn't get green lit years before, likely would have saved the world some grief.

[Cobra's_back]

While the attempt to improve the lives of everyone is a worthy goal, instigating a rebellion, turning to blood magic and kidnapping is not the way to achieve it. He should ahve gone through the proper channels, complain to the Grand Cleric, and then the Divine if the Grand Cleric wouldn't listen. He could ahve contacted the Seekers aswell. All of it would ahve been perfectly legal and within his capabilities.

 

Well said. Why he didn't I don't know. It seems like many characters in DA 2 were 2 cans short of a 6 pack.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well said. Why he didn't I don't know. It seems like many characters in DA 2 were 2 cans short of a 6 pack.

 

It was the water i think.

 

Or the elves, Maybe Ancient blood magic rituals.

 

Who knows...Probably the elves.