Okay. They're also a literal underclass and can be abused worse than any other group in Thedas except perhaps for Tevinter bloodslaves.
Actually, it is worse, because they freely attempt to use casteless to make golems because they're too cheap to provide more steel.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
edit: It is not going to stop the mages from revolting if you say we treat the casteless bad as well.
We don't blame everyone for the actions of a few. Quentin was a blood mage and he wanted to be. It was not an accident.
It is evidence that familial ties can be a terrible influence on mages. The same can be said of Connor who allowed himself to be possessed so as to save his father.
Let's say that an Apostate is hiding in a town with his son. This man is an exemplary citizen who has never used his magic for his own benefit. However, one day, his son comes down with a diseases that can only be cured through a blood magic ritual requiring the sacrifice of five other children.
What will this man do? Will he abide by the law or sacrifice everything to save his precious son?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
edit: It is not going to stop the mages from revolting if you say we treat the casteless bad as well.
Everyone is treated unfairly in Thedas; that was the point to my second post in this topic.
It is evidence that familial ties can be a terrible influence on mages. The same can be said of Connor who allowed himself to be possessed so as to save his father.
Let's say that an Apostate is hiding in a town with his son. This man is an exemplary citizen who has never used his magic for his own benefit. However, one day, his son comes down with a diseases that can only be cured through a blood magic ritual requiring the sacrifice of five other children.
What will this man do? Will he abide by the law or sacrifice everything to save his precious son?
I'm not saying get rid of training. Connor's problem was his mother. He was not formally trained. I'm talking about setting up a community with training, work and guards. Nothing changes but a few things.
Everyone earns money and can have a family
The Templars never left.
Everyone is treated unfairly in Thedas; that was the point to my second post in this topic.
Okay but how does this solve the problem?
I'm not saying get rid of training. Connor's problem was his mother. He was not formally trained. I'm talking about setting up a community with training, work and guards. Nothing changes but a few things.
Everyone earns money and can have a family
The Templars never left.
Everything changes; an open community is innately different from a quarantine area. If you want to have something like that, then you need to revise the rules in order to account for the increased danger which you aren't.
And you ignored my hypothetical scenario.
1.And every other companions isn't mage so don't have to deal with demons in their lives unless demon is already in thedas. So pretty much if you aren't mage you won't be tempted when you dream...
2.Yeah corruption and shady business very trustworthy organisation pretty much because it isn't offical organisation and rather secret we don't see what they screw so if there is collective member roaming as abomnation we wouldn't know that was their member.
3.And so what another reason why mages are dangerous why she did turned into abomnation doesn't matter as i said mages can have millions reasons to do that what matters that they turned into abomnations.
4.Grace was an abomnation so she was insane and no it isn't plot armor it is how most abomnations works.
5.Yes i can say that i shouldn't be punished for killing someone because im just human good luck with that pal.... he took book and agreed to let demon in if you want justify character with stupidity you would have to not blame 75 % mages for their actions...
yeap they are norm pretty much as i said we have many examples of abomnations just from 2 peoples perspective and no there is no 1 milion dwarves not even near that yes they are high in numbers but organisation is pretty much large.
1. So what? That did not stop Lady Harimann; mundanes can make deals with demons all that they like if they so desire and have a means of doing so.
2. So because apostates are not submitting to their tormentors and even taking the extra step to police themselves and lead normal lives they are 'shady' and 'not trustworthy'? That's simply blind prejudice, your accusation rings hollow.
3. It does matter why. It always matters why. You cannot simply 'kill them all' as a solution to every problem. Lest you inspire a new generation of Andrastian mages turned Tevinter. With no Andraste in sight.
4. I saved Grace's life. I allowed Grace a chance at escape from her tormentors and then all of a sudden she does a complete 180 switch, helps to kidnap the Champion of Kirkwall's sibling and then wants to murder me...For helping her out of a life or death situation....Plot stupidity at its finest.
5. And if you want to blame the circle of Kirkwall and the Circle of Fereldan you need only point the finger at Uldred and the hell mouth that homed the Kirkwall Circle.
Abominations are not the norm.
There are fifteen white circles. Filled with hundreds to thousands of mages. This would not be possible if abominations were the norm. Every circle would look like Fereldan's Broken Circle Quest if that were the case(takes many templars just to take down one abomination as per the Greagoir) and yet they do not. The entire nature of the universe would change if they were.
Quentin had a wife. Look at what her death turned him into.
This is a strawman argument and you know it.
If you can use Quentin as an example of what all mages will do if they have families, we can use Alrik as an example of what all Templars will do.
Lay the blame on individuals for individual crimes. The moment you start laying blame on an entire group for the actions of one, you essentially give permission for the opposing side to do the same about the group you defend.
Everything changes; an open community is innately different from a quarantine area. If you want to have something like that, then you need to revise the rules in order to account for the increased danger which you aren't.
And you ignored my hypothetical scenario.
A closed community the existing system is a no go.
Let's say that an Apostate is hiding in a town with his son. This man is an exemplary citizen who has never used his magic for his own benefit. However, one day, his son comes down with a diseases that can only be cured through a blood magic ritual requiring the sacrifice of five other children.
What will this man do? Will he abide by the law or sacrifice everything to save his precious son?
Sorry do you mean the above. Why would this guy be hiding if he lives in the community? Why did the guards leave? This guy is a criminal and not everyone will do this. Not everyone is a criminal. I would execute this guy. He committed murder.
Edit: How did he get the kids? He is living in a community with other mages?
This is a strawman argument and you know it.
If you can use Quentin as an example of what all mages will do if they have families, we can use Alrik as an example of what all Templars will do.
Lay the blame on individuals for individual crimes. The moment you start laying blame on an entire group for the actions of one, you essentially give permission for the opposing side to do the same about the group you defend.
'Tis not. I was not claiming all mages will act like Quentin did. I mentioned him in order to show that familial ties will not always be a good influence on mages hence why there is a reason the Templars keep it from them.
Sorry do you mean the above. Why would this guy be hiding if he lives in the community? Why did the guards leave? This guy is a criminal and not everyone will do this. Not everyone is a criminal. I would execute this guy. He committed murder.
Edit: How did he get the kids? He is living in a community with other mages?
One would imagine that he would simply go to other mages for help. It certainly worked for Connor.
If he is as was stated, blood magic would be an absolute last resort. Quite a few variables need to come in line for such an event to take place. That or the guy's a right bastard and as you said, he should be put down.
'Tis not. I was not claiming all mages will act like Quentin did. I mentioned him in order to show that familial ties will not always be a good influence on mages hence why there is a reason the Templars keep it from them.
Was never proven. The fact is that families are for the majority of humans a more stable condition.
considering that the tevinter imperium is standing and even thriving i say quarantine is not acceptable. Myself am pro-circle as i believe that magic must be mastered before you can use it. what i am however is completely anti templar/chantry and i hold them responsible for the current demon invasion. 1000 years the chantry knew of the demons and a 1000 years they sat on their asses or restrained circle mages from developing for their own selfish needs.
Tevinter is scum. It has a wide gap between rich and poor, where being lower-class is actually even worse than slavery, and the law looks the other way when magisters make blood-sacrifices to power their spells (so the social-elite is basically in bed with demons).
It's pointless to have a Circle but not regulate it by some non-mage leadership. That's how the Imperium came to be.
As for the demon invasion, I'll wait and see until we get more details.
What I said was "familial ties will not always be a good influence". All I have to do to prove it is give a single example where familial ties were a bad influence on the mage. For instance, Quentin. Therefore, it is proven.
It will be much hard to prove that "families are for the majority of humans a more stable condition".
What I said was "familial ties will not always be a good influence". All I have to do to prove it is give a single example where familial ties were a bad influence on the mage. For instance, Quentin. Therefore, it is proven.
It will be much hard to prove that "families are for the majority of humans a more stable condition".
One man does not prove the case at all. The root cause is the answer. He never had a problem with murder. He never had a problem with demons or blood mages. Most people will not kill someone's child because their child is sick and dying. The majority of the pop. are not murderers.
One man does not prove the case at all. The root cause is the answer. He never had a problem with murder. He never had a problem with demons or blood mages. Most people will not kill someone's child because their child is sick and dying.
Most people will not kill someone else's child because their own is sick and dying because in our world killing someone else's child very rarely will save your own sick and dying child. There is no correlation between the cause and the proposed solution.
With blood magic and demonology, however, sacrifice (of yourself or others) can save a child. Blood magic and demonology can do many things to preserve lives that no other known methods in Thedas can do.
The majority of the pop. are not murderers.
The majority of the populace will, however, kill other people in various circumstances with suitable pressures. People will kill others for an extremely wide variety of rationals ranging from abstract morality to selfless wellbeing of loved ones to personal interests. We call them a variety of things other than murderers, of course- soldiers and police are a common honored example- but they can be conditioned and willing to kill all the same.
All things considered, it's relatively easy to drive someone to kill someone else. There's a very long, sad, and successful history to attest to that. Actual pacifists are rare- it's really a testament of successful societies that a majority of the populace now doesn't even need to be able to kill, let alone willing to. With the exception to sexism, it used to be a common assumption that anyone could be called upon (drafted) to go kill someone else on behalf of someone else.
Compared to the relative ease of drafting an army for large-scale slaughter, believing that people would kill in the name of people they strongly care about is pretty simple.
yes. we know that the almost all the apostates we encounter use blood magic. Its retarded. Nial is the only mage with common sense. Don't bother with anyone, hide somewhere alone, or with family
What I said was "familial ties will not always be a good influence". All I have to do to prove it is give a single example where familial ties were a bad influence on the mage. For instance, Quentin. Therefore, it is proven.
It will be much hard to prove that "families are for the majority of humans a more stable condition".
What I'm saying is templars can't look after the mages properly. All I have to do to prove it is give single example of where things went wrong. For instance Alric. Therefore, it is proven.
It will be much harder to prove that templars can fulfill their duties properly.
yes. we know that the almost all the apostates we encounter use blood magic. Its retarded. Nial is the only mage with common sense. Don't bother with anyone, hide somewhere alone, or with family
Sadly, the sensibility of this advice is also part of the pragmatic grounds for the Templars breaking apart the family unit. Family members outside the Circle are more likely to support and shelter apostates.
Which doesn't in and of itself argue why families inside the Circle shouldn't be tolerated, though some derivative arguments hold. Like fairness and equal consideration between mages who had families outside the circle they are expected to give up and mages with families inside the circle.
Dean the Young I don't know anyone who would kill another person's child ever. I don't believe our society is that sick.
Dean the Young I don't know anyone who would kill another person's child ever. I don't believe our society is that sick.
Nothing is sick, everything depends. I'm sure there's hundreds of thousands of people who would.
Dean,
"Compared to the relative ease of drafting an army for large-scale slaughter, believing that people would kill in the name of people they strongly care about is pretty simple."
Army attacking civilians is a war crime for a reason. We don't send our soldiers to kill civilians.
Which doesn't in and of itself argue why families inside the Circle shouldn't be tolerated, though some derivative arguments hold. Like fairness and equal consideration between mages who had families outside the circle they are expected to give up and mages with families inside the circle.
That topic a while back I had. Where does that leave sibling mages again? In the same circle or seperate circles?
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