746 réponses à ce sujet

[Lillian]

A gun is an object.

A mage is a sentient being capable of thought and emotion. 

Forgive the sarcasm, please.

[dragonflight288]

Considering most of Thedas has grown into different cultures and developed a completely different mindset regarding magic than exists in Tevinter, no, I don't see freeing mages of Chantry controlled circles the same as creating the dawn of a new tevinter. 

[dragonflight288]

People have many differences that vary in strength, intelligence etc. and people have the ability use their strong sides to take advantage of other people who are weaker or less intelligent etc. Should we equalize that as well? 

 

I am against gun control. 

 

Let's not bring real life gun-control issues into the debate. It's not only off topic, but a fast way to get the thread locked.

 

Please?

[Shadow Fox]

A gun is an object.

A mage is a sentient being capable of thought and emotion. 

Forgive the sarcasm, please.

Which makes them much more dangerous.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Mages by their very nature are more powerful and dangerous then non-mages therefore restrictions on mages are needed to equalize them.

Also gun control exists you know.

Senator: We licence people to drive.
Grey: Yes, but not to live!

[Lillian]

Which makes them much more dangerous.

...I was trying to say that equating them with guns is inhumane and inaccurate.

[Divine Justinia V]

No? you did that before

 

Here, let me quote myself for you since you seem to have completely ignored my previous post.

 

You can't judge every Mage in Thedas off of one group, especially one that has never been oppressed. I don't judge Templars as rapist pigs because Ser Alrik is a slime ball or as overzealous murderers because Meredith turned into a lunatic. There's good and bad in every group, on both levels. For you to assume one is worse than the other is ridiculous.

 

 

Not to mention that you call murderers guys who were killing corrupted and insane mages...

 

See above quote because again you are wrong.

 

 

Yeah mages good sides ehhh aaa o i know they created new life called darkspawn wait bad example oh i know 1 anders was helping refugees for free oh and he then blew up church...

 

That's a terrible example, you're right, because we don't know hardly enough to 110% blame the Mages for Darkspawn.

[Shadow Fox]

People have many differences that vary in strength, intelligence etc. and people have the ability use their strong sides to take advantage of other people who are weaker or less intelligent etc. Should we equalize that as well? 

 

I am against gun control. 

You're not allowed to carry a deadly weapon without a permit correct?

 

Mages have several of them built in. And outside of lobotomy can't be parted with them.

[KainD]

You're not allowed to carry a deadly weapon without a permit correct?

 

Mages have several of them built in. And outside of lobotomy can't be parted with them.

 

Too bad. 

 

And? 

[Shadow Fox]

Let's not bring real life gun-control issues into the debate. It's not only off topic, but a fast way to get the thread locked.

 

Please?

I wasn't planning to.

 

Merely pointing out even "free" society regulates and restricts the use of dangerous things based on potential for harm.

[KainD]

Merely pointing out even "free" society regulates and restricts the use of dangerous things based on potential for harm.

 

Good thing you put free in quotes. 

[Shadow Fox]

Too bad. 

 

And? 

Not really.

 

And that is why restrictions for mages while unfortunate are necessary to curb misuse of magic and potential harm. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

I wasn't planning to.

Merely pointing out even "free" society regulates and restricts the use of dangerous things based on potential for harm.

Not having a weapon, such as a sword or crossbow is vastly different thing to detaining someone because of who they are.

[KainD]

Not really.

 

And that is why restrictions for mages while unfortunate are necessary to curb misuse of magic and potential harm. 

 

Well there's a deeper principle we don't agree on here. You say prevention, I say action-consequence. You say give away some freedoms for security, I say: ''Those willing to give up liberty for security, deserve neither.'' 

[Shadow Fox]

Well there's a deeper principle we don't agree on here. You say prevention, I say action-consequence. You say give away some freedoms for security, I say: ''Those willing to give up liberty for security, deserve neither.'' 

Ah I see.

 

You're correct in that.

 

No hard feelings?*not sarcasm*

[KainD]

No hard feelings?*not sarcasm*

 

Never. 

[dragonflight288]

Well there's a deeper principle we don't agree on here. You say prevention, I say action-consequence. You say give away some freedoms for security, I say: ''Those willing to give up liberty for security, deserve neither.'' 

 

Or some say "if no one can arm themselves, no one can hurt each other," and I say "If everyone is armed, the bad guys know that if they start something, anyone could end it, and it would be poorly for them."

 

I'd like to point out this principle to a certain degree where reality doesn't match Hollywood. The Old West. Westerns always have a good gunfight, this gang that has the whole own scared, but it never talks about the fact that the crime rate of the Old West was actually relatively small, and if someone did start something, more often than not, a large group of armed citizens gathered in a posse and was able to hunt them down because nearly everyone was good with a gun and thereby everyone was dangerous so starting something was considered a very stupid thing to do unless you had a lot of backup. And then you usually hightailed it out of there as fast as you could because the citizens would be after you just as fast as the law enforcement. 

[renfrees]

To OP:

not necessarily, but there is always a temptation to use the power if a person have it. It could be not on a daily basis, but there is certainly a situations, where it would come up. Then there is a domino effect, which could play a role, if a check for temptation has failed (and I don't speak about demons). After the first time you have stepped on a shaky moral ground, it becomes easier and easier to justify your actions, and harder and harder to resist the call.

The same goes to others around you - the more power you use, the stronger power is needed to oppose you. Which is also a chain effect.

With time it transforms from

"Why not if I must?"

to

"Why not if i can?"

[TheKomandorShepard]

No they are not, TKS pls. Suspecting all the mages can be understood, actually believing that all mages are the same is silly. 

 

Are all mages 100 % the same? no can all mages turn into abomnation at any moment? yes so they have same traits... as i said they have power and power corrupts not to mention that isn't political only personal power not to mention that it leads to blood magic that pretty much love make you insane giggling villain as i said many times. Pretty much da 2 is prove that mages freedom will lead or at least will try go tevinter route...

 

conclusion you can't trust mages.

 

 

 

What? where are all Qunari murdering children for fun? where's even one?

My mistake your not pro templar your just anti mage and anti Qunari.

 

fact is you take a hand of incidents and present it as fact and discount the vast majority who do the right thing. your paranoia about the end of the world is detached from the reality of the situation. It hasn't happened here's no indication that it will. yet we've had mages doing magey stuff right across thedas since forever and they still get about untouched by the templars.

 

oh why oh why haven't these evil mages destroyed the world?

 

eee i didn't say they were murdering childrens for fun i said they didn't... which pretty much doesn't make them mages who love doing that...

 

Yep pretty much

 

Yes i take incidents (hoho we have a lot of them ) pretty much kirkwall showed how trustworthy mages are...

paranoia? well meredith was paranoid as well and in end of the day it turned that she was right almost about everything when it comes about mages so well being paranoid is sane approach when it comes about mages thrask was trusting and how he was rewarded for his trust?

 

Is blight paranoia

Is zathrian curse paranoia

what about Baroness victims and damage she caused that is paranoia as well?

pretty much much more incidents caused by mages like army of harvesters...

 

Why they didn't because we have sane peoples who try to protect it like templars (and protagonists) they managed keep world in 1 piece but still damage caused by mages is colosal even now ...

[Shadow Fox]

Or some say "if no one can arm themselves, no one can hurt each other," and I say "If everyone is armed, the bad guys know that if they start something, anyone could end it, and it would be poorly for them."

 

I'd like to point out this principle to a certain degree where reality doesn't match Hollywood. The Old West. Westerns always have a good gunfight, this gang that has the whole own scared, but it never talks about the fact that the crime rate of the Old West was actually relatively small, and if someone did start something, more often than not, a large group of armed citizens gathered in a posse and was able to hunt them down because nearly everyone was good with a gun and thereby everyone was dangerous so starting something was considered a very stupid thing to do unless you had a lot of backup. And then you usually hightailed it out of there as fast as you could because the citizens would be after you just as fast as the law enforcement. 

It's all about risks vs. benefits.

 

Some see the benefits worth the risks.

 

Some see the risks not worth the benefits.

 

Neither group is wrong however.

[EmissaryofLies]

Merc's stealing your thunder, Kain. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think there needs to be some system in place to teach mages how to control their abilities and how to resist demons, as there are a lot of stories of young children accidentally hurting themselves or others when their powers first manifest. However, it shouldn't be an issue of shame, or the high pressure environment of the circles. It should be more of a school setting. 

 

Once mages know how to control their abilities, I don't see any reason they couldn't be free. There will always be temptation to do bad things for power and monetary gain, but we see most humans resist that every day. Mages are just people and they're also capable of doing so. I don't agree with locking up the whole lot indefinitely because a few might be troublesome. They should be handled with reasonable force when those issues actually occur. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Here, let me quote myself for you since you seem to have completely ignored my previous post.

 

 

 

See above quote because again you are wrong.

 

 

That's a terrible example, you're right, because we don't know hardly enough to 110% blame the Mages for Darkspawn.

 

And what that was for pretty much it is quote of your text and my text that was response to the same post when you claimed that you don't judge templars when few comments before you started judge templars that they abuse mages and that was based on arlik and karas actions... 

 

Yes we know not to 110 % but 100 % it is pretty much confirmed confirmed by corry that they went to black/golden (it doesn't matter which color city was) city and brought blight it matches to chantry version as i said it could be maker curse or just they went to place they shouldn't and brought blight... so in every scenario it was because mages power hunger...

[DRTJR]

It's a Magneto question, and if you do have the power then should you not rule.

[Shadow Fox]

Not having a weapon, such as a sword or crossbow is vastly different thing to detaining someone because of who they are.

Detainment? If you're talking about my mandatory Circle education I meant like how schools function *ergo the mages spend their adolescence safely learning to control their powers with families allowed to visit everyday if they wish, then after giving a drop of blood so the Templars can keep track of them just in case they're free to go as they wish.*