49 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

1. I've been on the forums long enough with you to know that you make up things all the time, honestly.

2. Jowan did not, never proven. Morrigan did not, never proven if you are speaking of the Dark Ritual, this most likely involved magic from the Taint, which is completely separate and unrelated to Blood Magic proper in anyway. Warden did not, never proven and this is gameplay which is segregated from story in most instances. Hawke did not, never proven and see before. Instances where blood magic are actually used and explained, all involved demons.

Not true at all, call me out on some.

What are your examples?

[lil yonce]

@Br3admax; Where did you get the info that blood magic uses the power of demons? I thought it was tied one-hundred percent to the physical world, to blood and pain, and that was it.

[Hellion Rex]

@Br3admax; Where did you get the info that blood magic uses the power of demons? I thought it was tied one-hundred percent to the physical world, to blood and pain, and that was it.

Indeed. They can certainly augment its use, just like any other magic, but it doesn't truly come from them.

[Gervaise]

The mechanism of blood magic is somewhat muddied and not fully explained in the game.   However, the reaction of Anders towards Merrill is based on the fact that her blood magic summons up a demon to assist with her spell.   In the book Asunder, when a mage uses blood magic it is implied that there is some link to the darker aspects of the Fade.  So effectively you are using the blood to attract a demon which then uses its spiritual power to assist your spell.   Wherever blood is shed, whether by a mage or in battle it weakens the veil.   Where large amounts are shed it becomes so thin that demons can jump across into our world and possess the nearest vessel that is available, either living or dead.

 

Now if you are a spirit healer you are actually using spirits from the Fade to assist your healing.   Again this is confirmed in Asunder.   The reason that the Chantry permit this use of spirits is because it is beneficial magic but the Templars are always wary of any mage that utilises spirits be they benign of malign.   Presumably because you are putting yourself at increased risk of the spirit invading your mind.  The stronger the spirit/demon, the more risk there is.   Spirits assist because the mage is a medium who has sufficiently strong connection with the Fade to attract them.    Demons assist because they hope to get something out of it. 

 

It may be that lyrium is also merely attracting spirits that help power spells but mages don't realise this.  

[KainD]

Good read Gervaise, I haven't read Asunder fully, just the plot summary so I took what I knew about blood magic from the games. If this is the case btw wouldn't it support my theory that a strong enough mage can perform all blood magic feats or spirit healer feats for that matter on their own because they are strong enough to not need demon/spirit help?

[Laughing_Man]

The technical aspects of magic are not clear enough from what we saw up to this point.

(some things even seemed somewhat illogical to me, but a hole here and there is to be expected.)

 

That said, your theory seems logical to me.

I can see a mage being able to influence minds to some degree with spells similar to nightmare etc.

 

Also, we need to remember that the magic that is practiced in the circles that are under chantry supervision is not all the magic that is.

In fact I would expect that magical research is even somewhat held back in order to keep mages weaker and more docile,

I mean, imagine the horror if mages learned counter spells to the "spells" Templars use...

(Considering that templars use what amounts to a primitive form of magic, it's a wonder they even have what power they use now,

the possibility of a mage being able to counter it seems likely to me.)

[The Baconer]

The technical aspects of magic are not clear enough from what we saw up to this point.
(some things even seemed somewhat illogical to me, but a hole here and there is to be expected.)

That said, your theory seems logical to me.
I can see a mage being able to influence minds to some degree with spells similar to nightmare etc.

Also, we need to remember that the magic that is practiced in the circles that are under chantry supervision is not all the magic that is.
In fact I would expect that magical research is even somewhat held back in order to keep mages weaker and more docile,
I mean, imagine the horror if mages learned counter spells to the "spells" Templars use...
(Considering that templars use what amounts to a primitive form of magic, it's a wonder they even have what power they use now,
the possibility of a mage being able to counter it seems likely to me.)

Again, I think Thedas really needs its own version of the Psijic Order

[Hellion Rex]

Good read Gervaise, I haven't read Asunder fully, just the plot summary so I took what I knew about blood magic from the games. If this is the case btw wouldn't it support my theory that a strong enough mage can perform all blood magic feats or spirit healer feats for that matter on their own because they are strong enough to not need demon/spirit help?

I'm unsure about the blood magic part, since I think some spells do really require blood magic to power, but as to the rest, in theory a mage could do all those things without spiritual help. It would take one hell of a powerful mage though, more than we have seen in the games. *cough* Andraste *cough*

[KainD]

I'm unsure about the blood magic part, since I think some spells do really require blood magic to power, but as to the rest, in theory a mage could do all those things without spiritual help. It would take one hell of a powerful mage though, more than we have seen in the games. *cough* Andraste *cough*

 

Gervaise just said that blood magic is required to get attention of a demon that is going to help you, so basically you get nothing special other than the power of the demon to help you. Which would mean that a mage is basically too weak on their own without the demons help to do something like that, but if a mage would be more powerful they wouldn't need demons hep. Logical? 

 

Dreamers are the ''one hell of a powerful mage''. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Fiona, my love.

[Hellion Rex]

Gervaise just said that blood magic is required to get attention of a demon that is going to help you, so basically you get nothing special other than the power of the demon to help you. Which would mean that a mage is basically too weak on their own without the demons help to do something like that, but if a mage would be more powerful they wouldn't need demons hep. Logical? 

I disagree that blood magic is used merely to attract a demon to help. Sure, Merrill used a spiritual entity to get past a magical barrier, but Jowan sure as hell didn't use a demon to throw blood at Greagoir and Irving. So yes, demons and spirits can augment blood magic, but they aren't necessary.

[KainD]

I disagree that blood magic is used merely to attract a demon to help. Sure, Merrill used a spiritual entity to get past a magical barrier, but Jowan sure as hell didn't use a demon to throw blood at Greagoir and Irving. So yes, demons and spirits can augment blood magic, but they aren't necessary.

 

What if Jowan didn't know that he was summoning a demon? What if the demon got attracted and helped him but it wasn't Jowans direct intent and he didn't really understand what really happened? I mean again if Asunder clarifies, there is no reason not to believe right? 

[Hellion Rex]

What if Jowan didn't know that he was summoning a demon? What if the demon got attracted and helped him but it wasn't Jowans direct intent and he didn't really understand what really happened? I mean again if Asunder clarifies, there is no reason not to believe right? 

Asunder never clarified it. I've read the damn book about 30 times. We only see blood magic used once in the novel, during the opening chapter. And even then, the mage just used blood magic to enhance a fire spell, and that was it. No speak of demonic intervention at all.

[DontWakeTheBear]

What if Jowan didn't know that he was summoning a demon? What if the demon got attracted and helped him but it wasn't Jowans direct intent and he didn't really understand what really happened? I mean again if Asunder clarifies, there is no reason not to believe right? 

But it didn't, I've read the book, they talk about blood magic, they say it's bad, but they don't go into any mechanics of it, at least not what this is about.

[KainD]

Asunder never clarified it. I've read the damn book about 30 times. We only see blood magic used once in the novel, during the opening chapter. And even then, the mage just used blood magic to enhance a fire spell, and that was it. No speak of demonic intervention at all.

 

Then what was Gervaise talking about?

[Hellion Rex]

But it didn't, I've read the book, they talk about blood magic, they say it's bad, but they don't go into any mechanics of it, at least not what this is about.

Indeed. We only see it once, and I don't even think they use the term in the Pharamond situation either, cause he was just possessed. No BM used at all.

[Hellion Rex]

Then what was Gervaise talking about?

No freaking clue. I'm entirely lost.

[KainD]

But it didn't, I've read the book, they talk about blood magic, they say it's bad, but they don't go into any mechanics of it, at least not what this is about.

 

So what's your best guess? Is blood magic a more potent source to power spells than lyrium or is it a way to attract demons to help you?

[Hellion Rex]

So what's your best guess? Is blood magic a more potent source to power spells than lyrium or is it a way to attract demons to help you?

You can use it either way, based on what we have seen. Simply using the blood itself is an enhancing agent for magic, but calling out to a demon would of course amp it up exponentially.

[DontWakeTheBear]

Then what was Gervaise talking about?

Extrapolating a theory based on cryptic mentions in the book, as far as i know that's it.

 

Also there was another use of blood magic elu, Cole's power was blood magic as it was affected by the Litany

[KainD]

You can use it either way, based on what we have seen. Simply using the blood itself is an enhancing agent for magic, but calling out to a demon would of course amp it up exponentially.

 

Damn I am lost myself now as well. xD

At least theory still stands

[Hellion Rex]

Extrapolating a theory based on cryptic mentions in the book, as far as i know that's it.

 

Also there was another use of blood magic elu, Cole's power was blood magic as it was affected by the Litany

Ah touche. Forgot about that. But I still don't remember BM being talked about like Gervaise was.

[Hellion Rex]

Damn I am lost myself now as well. xD

At least theory still stands

The first part, in regards to mental manipulation, I do absolutely agree with.

[DontWakeTheBear]

 

So what's your best guess? Is blood magic a more potent source to power spells than lyrium or is it a way to attract demons to help you?

 

You can use it either way, based on what we have seen. Simply using the blood itself is an enhancing agent for magic, but calling out to a demon would of course amp it up exponentially.

 

Pretty much this, blood equals life and life equals energy just like lyrium equals energy. It can be used as a power source or to call and bind demons.

Ah touche. Forgot about that. But I still don't remember BM being talked about like Gervaise was.

I'm pretty sure you're right, I think he was just making a guess/theory based on a few cryptic references in the book.

[lil yonce]

I think Gervaise is going off this one description of blood magic in the beginning of the book, but its not informative description IMO, its just a description that address how horrible blood magic looked when this one mage did it. "The blood on his hands sizzled and evaporated as he drew mana directly from it. The blood on his chest smoked, and his eyes burned with a dark and evil power." That's not a confirmation of demonic involvement to me, it just looks really cheesy "dark and evil" in this instance.