59 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaToxic]

First off which squad mates go best with a Vanguard? Second, do I HAVE to place them at cover? I like to just let the AI do as it pleases but sometimes that doesn't seem good. Are the squad mates AI in ME3 smarter in combat or the same as ME2?

[cap and gown]

I never let my squadmates do their own thing. They run around to no good purpose, much as the enemy AI runs around for no real reason. How hard is it to just pause the action to order your squad into cover? ME is a squad based game. I very much appreciate that aspect.

 

Which game are you talking about for a Vanguard?

 

In ME3 a Vanguard can combo off both tech, biotic, and even combat squadmates. OTOH, playing a Vanguard in ME3 I generally forget I have squadmates altogether I am so busy charging around the battlefield. This is something I dislike about the Vanguard in SP: it kinda obviates your squad. You charge too far ahead and they lose their last positioning order. And while you sit their focused on Charging, especially if you are using the hotkey, you lose track of the fact that you could be calling on your squad's powers to help out.

 

For ME2 I am not sure, but Miranda is good any time and all the time.

[MegaToxic]

I play on the Xbox (for ME2 right now but ME3 soon), forgot to mention that as these forums are for all consoles. I just like to focus more on myself and not too much on my Squad, I kind of like to to the same thing in the Dragon Age game. I don't like pausing too much to give commands as I feel for me it takes away from the combat too much. Right now I have Garrus and Tali (I like Tali) (Wish I could Romance her as Femshep)

[Mordokai]

Vanguard is lacking when it comes to dealing with shields. Not saying it can't be handled, but it is her weak point. To that effect, take Miranda and Garrus with you, both of them can deal with shields better than you. Grunt is always good for soaking damage. Zaeed, with squad disruptor ammo.

 

Or you could take Energy Drain and assault rifle specialization on Collector ship and forget your squadmates exist. It's up to you, really.

[themikefest]

For me, Zaeed and Miranda work best. Zaeed for his disruptor ammo and concussive shot for barriers and Miranda who has warp for armor and barriers and overload for shields. I rarely have to babysit them since they do well on their own

[Ribosome]

Ultimately, it's going to be up to what works with your individual playstyle best, but here's my take on it:

 

Good AOE/Stagger powers are the most imperative thing to take along with you while playing as a vanguard. This ensures that you can skirt across the battlefield safely. Ideally, these would be Concussive Blast, area inferno grenade, improved flashbang grenade, and to a lesser degree, Warp for dealing with barriers which is one of those protections that are tricky to deal with. Zaeed has the two former powers and can hold up his own in a fight with an outstanding weapon damage passive and access to sniper rifles, and Kasumi's grenade is the best CC in the game, hands down. Intentional or not, it can render a harbinger useless for a significant amount of time, thus making fights vs. collectors lean greatly in your favour. Since both are dlc squaddies, you can get them the moment you have free reign over the galaxy map and additionally have access to their loyalty missions. If I had to contend with limited console button maps, I'd prefer to have concussive shot mapped to the d-pad, but either is fine. Garrus is also very good all-around because of his access to overload and the aforementioned CC+snipers.

 

OR, there's always the tried and true pull/slam+warp bombs, for every situation where you feel it's not safe to charge. Jack/Jacob/Samara/Morinth + Miranda/Thane. I never took pull on my vanguard, but that's an option you can consider (reason I don't have it is because slam was my bonus power)

[MegaToxic]

Vanguard is lacking when it comes to dealing with shields. Not saying it can't be handled, but it is her weak point. To that effect, take Miranda and Garrus with you, both of them can deal with shields better than you. Grunt is always good for soaking damage. Zaeed, with squad disruptor ammo.

 

Or you could take Energy Drain and assault rifle specialization on Collector ship and forget your squadmates exist. It's up to you, really.

I did notice that the Vanguard shields go down fast (or maybe that is just all classes) it is still a pretty cool class. Do you think Tali and Miranda would be good? or Zaeed/Grunt and Tali?

[cap and gown]

I did notice that the Vanguard shields go down fast (or maybe that is just all classes) it is still a pretty cool class. Do you think Tali and Miranda would be good? or Zaeed/Grunt and Tali?

 

When people say Vanguards are lacking in shields, they mean in shield stripping powers, i.e. overload or disruptor ammo. A Vanguard's shields are the most durable of any class because you can get them back by Charging. Indeed, one of the main reasons to Charge is as a defensive tactic to get your shields back. Unfortunately, the cool down on Charge is 6 seconds in ME2, so the use of Charge to get back your shields is more limited, though that option is still there. In ME3 you can get your cool down all the way down to around 3 seconds, so Charging into the middle of a gaggle of enemies is not only feasible, it is a recommended tactic when you combine it with Nova (another ME3 power that is not in ME2).

[SwobyJ]

OP, unless you're playing Hardcore or Insanity, your henchmen choice and their directions shouldn't really matter!

 

But it might be good to bring at least one character with something like Overload (or a similar ability).

 

I've played on Insanity in all 3 games and I've almost never cared about placing henchmen in place. I do, however, sometimes use their abilities manually. Sometimes that is nearly required. On a Normal difficulty though, it's utterly optional.

[capn233]

Everyone will probably have their own opinion.  I used Garrus and Miranda a lot because you will have 2 Area Overloads that way (and Garrus has the most Overload damage).  That's fairly useful on almost every mission in the game.

 

For Collector missions you could replace Garrus with someone that has a little better anti-barrier, or faster CC.  Basically Thane, Samara, Mordin, Jack, Kasumi...

 

It mainly just will depend on what role you want the squad to play.  Do you want them to strip defenses?  Do you want them to provide CC?  That's what the squad is largely best at.  This will depend on if you prefer to use your guns to defense strip or just deal with health, and whether you like ragdolling targets you charge, or if you think that is annoying.

 

As for management, the squad is a lot more survivable if you manage their positioning.  Vanguard runs have the issue that they will teleport to right behind you if you charge too far away from them, so keep that in mind.

[MegaToxic]

So I know you guys are saying have Miranda..while yes she is good I would like to try others. Right now I am going to try Garrus/Tali or Garrus/Kasumi. Though when I accidentally took the collector ship mission when I was level 15..I died a lot on that part when EDI is trying to fix stuff up and I had Garrus and Tali and they died really fast..probably due mostly from those dame scions that I have no idea how to kill fast. Will not take that mission so early on next time. I notice Vanguard, while cool is a little hard to play since its main skill is charge that I don't use a lot because a lot of the times I will get shot up a lot. Maybe another time I will try Sentinel (Since I played Soldier and Adept on my male).

[capn233]

So I know you guys are saying have Miranda..while yes she is good I would like to try others. Right now I am going to try Garrus/Tali or Garrus/Kasumi. Though when I accidentally took the collector ship mission when I was level 15..I died a lot on that part when EDI is trying to fix stuff up and I had Garrus and Tali and they died really fast..probably due mostly from those dame scions that I have no idea how to kill fast. Will not take that mission so early on next time. I notice Vanguard, while cool is a little hard to play since its main skill is charge that I don't use a lot because a lot of the times I will get shot up a lot. Maybe another time I will try Sentinel (Since I played Soldier and Adept on my male).

 

 Vanguard has the steepest learning curve in ME2.  He doesn't become an awesome engine of destruction until you get some upgrades.

[MegaToxic]

 Vanguard has the steepest learning curve in ME2.  He doesn't become an awesome engine of destruction until you get some upgrades.

Right now for my vanguard 

 

Incendiary ammo-6

Cryo ammo-3

Charge-6

Shockwave-6

Pull-0

Assault mastery-6

Reave (Bonus)-3 

 

Sometimes I forget I have shockwave..I am torn with Shockwave and Pull because many people say either shock is useless of pull is. And Reave seems pretty good so I took that. Though if that doesn't do too well I may take Slam.

[capn233]

Right now for my vanguard 

 

Incendiary ammo-6

Cryo ammo-3

Charge-6

Shockwave-6

Pull-0

Assault mastery-6

Reave (Bonus)-3 

 

Sometimes I forget I have shockwave..I am torn with Shockwave and Pull because many people say either shock is useless of pull is. And Reave seems pretty good so I took that. Though if that doesn't do too well I may take Slam.

 

I don't care for Shockwave on the Vanguard, and in fact I don't put any more points in it than may be required to unlock Pull.  And even then that will depend on the bonus power.

 

I don't care for Reave on Shepard of any class, but if you really want it then it pays to max it to Area for group melee creature armor stripping.  That said, I tend to think the cooldown interferes too much with Charge, so I wouldn't run it on a typical Vanguard.  If you are trying to go as more of a caster Vanguard, then it might be fine.

 

The two best biotic bonuses on Vanguard are probably Slam and Stasis, both of which offer nearly all their utility at just 1 rank.  Slam gives you a ranged option for enemies early game, and it allows you to setup warp bombs right away (trickier to time then something like Pull, but just takes some practice).  It also allows you to basically forget about leveling Shockwave -> Pull as you already have some rapid CC and warp bomb primer.

 

Stasis is mainly good for exploiting the glitch where enemies will take extra damage as stasis breaks (they are briefly classed as "neutral" so they don't have any hp modifiers).  This means that the Vanguard's inherent weakness against mini-bosses is essentially compensated for entirely as you can easily stasis a YMIR or Scion and kill it in a trivial amount of shots.

 

In any event, you have the core powers down, usually you want to level Charge (Heavy), Assault Mastery (Champion - the passive power recharge is the only recharge bonus that affects Charge), and Incendiary Ammo (Inferno).  At that point if you have one of the above 1 pt wonder bonus powers, you will be nearly set... you just need the upgrades.  Vanguard starts to get a lot easier to play after you have some Damage Protection upgrades including Redundant Field Generator and Hard Shields.  The Cybernetic upgrades also help to an extent (Skin, Bone, Muscle weaves).

[cap and gown]

For the Collector Ship platforms, the way to keep your squad from dying is to put them in cover behind the middle platform, the one with the console. I found this was quite effective in keeping them in the fight. After putting them in cover there, have Shepard move to the right side of the platform, close to where the first set of three Collectors will dock. Get rid of those Collectors so you can concentrate on killing that Scion on the platform that bounces back and forth. Once that Scion is gone it will be easier to keep your squad alive.

 

Also, by ordering your squad into cover you can ensure that Shepard is closer to the enemy than they are and therefore the enemy will concentrate fire on Shepard. The AI targets the closest enemy in ME2.

 

Depending on your difficulty level, I highly recommend Kasumi for Collector missions since her flashbang can shut down Harbinger for a very long time. I found that Harbinger was not too big a problem at Veteran difficulty. But if you play on insanity, he casts his powers as fast as it takes for the animation to complete, there is no cool down whatsoever. That's when Kasumi's flashbang really comes in handy.

 

I also like Thane for Collector missions because he has Unstable Warp (9 second cool down) and some decent weapon damage in his passives, particularly if you have the Incisor sniper rifle (DLC). His Warp can be combined with the Vanguard's Pull for Warp bombs, or you can use it against armor and for barrier stripping. His Throw can also be useful.

 

Samara is good too, but only if you have done her loyalty mission and have Reave.

 

Tali is really set up to fight Geth, and even then she is only really decent if you have done her loyalty mission and unlocked Energy Drain. Tali really got shafted in ME2.

[capn233]

Yes, you should park the squad in cover on the first platform.  Keep in mind that the Scions might be able to still shockwave them, it sort of depends on where exactly they are docked.  Stasis also makes this section a lot easier since you can cheese the Scions.

 

The last time I played through ME2 I was messing around with Area Energy Drain on Tali.  Still not ideal against the standard merc factions, but it is workable.  Even so, I agree she tends to be suboptimal outside of Treason and Overlord, and the handful of Geth N7 missions.

[a_mouse]

Here's a brief tutorial covering when I do (or don't) like to micromanage the positions of squad mates:

 

 

[Brickyracer8655]

Yes, you should park the squad in cover on the first platform.  Keep in mind that the Scions might be able to still shockwave them, it sort of depends on where exactly they are docked.  Stasis also makes this section a lot easier since you can cheese the Scions.

 

The last time I played through ME2 I was messing around with Area Energy Drain on Tali.  Still not ideal against the standard merc factions, but it is workable.  Even so, I agree she tends to be suboptimal outside of Treason and Overlord, and the handful of Geth N7 missions.

Agreed, but combat drones also work very well against scions; Those stupid PIBs will always focus first on the drones you direct at them & they have a difficult time dealing with them.

[Dabrikishaw]

Here's a brief tutorial covering when I do (or don't) like to micromanage the positions of squad mates:

 

 

Very goods ideas in that video. Engineer right?

[cap and gown]

Agreed, but combat drones also work very well against scions; Those stupid PIBs will always focus first on the drones you direct at them & they have a difficult time dealing with them.

 

The problem with Tali's drone is the 30 second base cool down. With the tech cool down upgrade that can be brought down to 26 seconds, but that is still incredibly long. If you want a drone capable squad mate, Legion is your best bet since his passive can reduce cool down by 25%. Combine that with 20% from the upgrade and you are almost at 50% reduction in cool down, or 16.5 seconds. Of course, you can't get Legion until real late. First time I played (blind) I used Legion in the final boss fight on the Collector Base because I wanted a drone. The only real reason to use Tali's drone is to hear her dialogue about Chitika. "Go for the optics!"

[capn233]

Agreed, but combat drones also work very well against scions; Those stupid PIBs will always focus first on the drones you direct at them & they have a difficult time dealing with them.

 

I agree, and actually you can cheese the Scion with drone as well.  RedCaesar made a vid of it a few years back.  Cast it as it comes in, and the drone knocks it off the moving platform, IIRC.

[a_mouse]

Engineer right?

Yep!  (with Geth Shield Boost as bonus power to aid mobility).  But this is fairly bread & butter assault strategy - should apply to pretty much any class (except maybe Vanguard, where you might have some additional tactical options).

[Farangbaa]

I barely ever order my squadmates into a cover. I do, constantly, order them to hit specific targets. They do more damage that way. Only in certain battles I will order them into cover

What also helps in me not really caring about them dying is that not using medigel only gives you 100 credits when you find new medigel, which really isn't worth the effort.

[a_mouse]

I barely ever order my squadmates into a cover. I do, constantly, order them to hit specific targets. They do more damage that way. Only in certain battles I will order them into cover

What also helps in me not really caring about them dying is that not using medigel only gives you 100 credits when you find new medigel, which really isn't worth the effort.

Actually I think it is less about placing them in cover (they do that themselves) - it's more about placing them in a location where the cover they have will force them to face in a particular direction (firing arc), and stop them from following you (and/or wandering around ineffectively).  I almost never command them to attack a target because they will immediately fire off their powers in an uncoordinated manner (depriving their cool downs for subsequent power combos).  Unfortunately there is no way (that I am aware of) to have them attack a target with weapons only.  Would be nice if you could do that.

[Vazgen]

Actually I think it is less about placing them in cover (they do that themselves) - it's more about placing them in a location where the cover they have will force them to face in a particular direction (firing arc), and stop them from following you (and/or wandering around ineffectively). I almost never command them to attack a target because they will immediately fire off their powers in an uncoordinated manner (depriving their cool downs for subsequent power combos). Unfortunately there is no way (that I am aware of) to have them attack a target with weapons only. Would be nice if you could do that.

That's why I love Jack in my squad - she doesn't use her powers until the right time comes