95 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

I don't know what the original plan was for certain, but it is true that Hawke was intended to have another game, or at least a full expansion, so you are right about that.

 

I remember prior to DA2's release, they described Hawke as someone who goes from being nothing and ends up becoming "the most important person in Thedas."

 

That didn't happen in Dargon Age 2. One can argue that Hawke isn't even the most important person in Dragon Age 2.

 

DA2 was, as you say, intended to have the expansion Exalted March, several elements of which are being/have been worked into DAI. Whether or not that would have been the end of Hawke's adventures is likely something we'll never know for certain(or at least not for some time), but I doubt it.

 

DA2 was very obviously a set up game, setting the stage for what would come later. I suspect the third game was originally envisioned as the one where Hawke stepped up into that "most important person in the world" role. After all, that's why you make a character like Hawke in the first place, to have a somewhat defined protagonist that you can name drop and carry over from one game to the other, same as Shepard.

 

I couldn't say exactly what lead them to abandon that plan. DA2's reaction was mixed but I'd hardly call it negative enough to completely change gears like that. 

[ElitePinecone]

The reaction to Hawke as a character wasn't exactly overjoyed though, either. There's not a lot of love in the same way that people feel fondness for Shepard, at least anecdotally.

(Or, dare I say, the way people still feel fondness for their individual Wardens.)

[Former_Fiend]

I think it's a combination of those two, really. 

 

On one hand, people were very attached to their Wardens. I'm still very attached to mine.

 

On the other, I think people were just becoming more and more aware of Bioware's signature formula and seeing them make another Shepard character had them rolling their eyes rather than embracing it as a logical decision.

 

So I think those things conspired against Hawke. 

[katerinafm]

I think it's a combination of those two, really. 

 

On one hand, people were very attached to their Wardens. I'm still very attached to mine.

 

On the other, I think people were just becoming more and more aware of Bioware's signature formula and seeing them make another Shepard character had them rolling their eyes rather than embracing it as a logical decision.

 

So I think those things conspired against Hawke. 

 

I've heard that people also disliked that with Hawke, you didn't really feel like a hero, but rather felt like a character that was just being dragged along for important events.

 

I personally like my Hawkes, but it is true that I'd pick my Wardens any day, and it would make sense that them being so important and heroic (and in the legendary Grey Wardens) could have something to do with it.

[TTTX]

I think it's a combination of those two, really. 

 

On one hand, people were very attached to their Wardens. I'm still very attached to mine.

 

On the other, I think people were just becoming more and more aware of Bioware's signature formula and seeing them make another Shepard character had them rolling their eyes rather than embracing it as a logical decision.

 

So I think those things conspired against Hawke. 

I pretty much agree with this.

 

I would like to add, Hawke is also a bit incompetent which is best seen when the time skips happens and things gets worse and worse and what does Hawke during this, well we actually don't know, but it's apparently nothing even as he/she gains more power, Shepard suffered at this in ME3 as well.

[Former_Fiend]

I honestly didn't mind that too much; after DAO and ME2 I was ready for a breath of fresh air that was a game that didn't spin this fairytale of one intrepid hero and a rag-tag band of misfits overcoming all the odds. I liked the theme of there being some circumstances beyond your control, that sometimes you just have to roll with the burn.

 

And I think a lot of that was done with the idea of breaking down Hawke so they'd rise to new heights in the next one; that Hawke would undergo this period of powerlessness before being the person that would change the world. 

 

That sh*t didn't happen, though. 

[ElitePinecone]

I don't think the story structure and time jumps helped with Hawke's hero problems, especially when mostly it felt like they were just stumbling into crises and reacting passively to events as they steamrolled in.

Bioware's traditional heroic journey story might've been getting criticism before DA2 for being samey, but at least it was epic and empowering - and maybe lots of people do want that in a game. Points for trying something different (and Kris Ligman has a great essay on DA2 as a triumph of classical tragedy like in Greek theatre), but I think it was maybe too bold.

Inquisition is totally back to giving the player enormous amounts of agency, and Mike and Mark have constantly repeated that this will be the focus of Bioware RPGs going forward. I think the reaction to DA2 put a lid on its experimental (and arguably disempowering) style of storytelling for the foreseeable future, and the sort of protagonist that Hawke was.

[Former_Fiend]

Well, however I feel about it, these are the most likely circumstances that lead to the plans of Hawke being the Shepard of Thedas being scrapped. Could be wrong and it could be something completely different, but these are the most likely causes as far as we know.

 

And honestly I'm glad for it. I think Dragon Age is going to work better by going the Elder Scrolls route and having a different protagonist for each game. And I'm very glad of not being shoe-horned into playing a human.

[ElitePinecone]

It will be interesting when DAI reviews and analyses start coming to see how prevalent the theme is of Inquisition being a direct response to DA2 feedback, or maybe a clearer articulation of their planned Origins sequel.

I'm not convinced that they intended Hawke to carry over (if there even was a solid plan for DA3), but you're definitely right that the base game of DA2 didn't really explain why Hawke could ever be considered the most important person in Thedas.

(And we'd have to say now that the Inquisitor is actually the most important person in Thedas, given the eventual power of the organisation they command, and the fact that nobody else can close the Veil tears or end the demon invasion. In that respect they're probably way more important than even the Warden.)

[Former_Fiend]

It does present a rather disturbing possibility that they may try and fulfill the promise of Hawke's importance  with Hawke as an NPC with the Inquisitor playing second fiddle to them.

 

I don't think they'll do that, but it isn't impossible.

[ElitePinecone]

I think what's perhaps more likely is that Hawke's role in the circumstances surrounding the start of the Mage-Templar War were enough to qualify them as important. Varric did say Hawke's decisions echoed across the continent and spurred the mages to rebellion in one way or another. The like about being important was for marketing, if I remember correctly.

It's exceedingly unlikely IMO that we'll be playing second fiddle to Hawke in DAI, if only because that completely goes against their stated goal of giving the player more agency, and I think after DA2 they're being incredibly cautious about making the player feel important, powerful and competent.

[Former_Fiend]

Yea, like I said, I don't think it's at all likely.

 

But I've seen it done before, and I've seen Bioware blatantly lie before.

 

So until the game comes out and proves otherwise, the thought will be haunting the back of my mind.

[TTTX]

I honestly didn't mind that too much; after DAO and ME2 I was ready for a breath of fresh air that was a game that didn't spin this fairytale of one intrepid hero and a rag-tag band of misfits overcoming all the odds. I liked the theme of there being some circumstances beyond your control, that sometimes you just have to roll with the burn.

 

And I think a lot of that was done with the idea of breaking down Hawke so they'd rise to new heights in the next one; that Hawke would undergo this period of powerlessness before being the person that would change the world. 

 

That sh*t didn't happen, though. 

Well it's all about execution really.

 

If something badly executed well people won't like it much (they might even hate it) and that's what happened with DA2 and some parts of ME3, like when Thrask was killed in front of Hawke and Hawke did nothing or when Kai Leng showed up in ME3 for the first time and Shepard did nothing to to stop him. 

[Tevinter Soldier]

Highly unlikely, in the beginning Hawke is sort out because he's believed RESPONSIBLE for shtf in kirkwall.

The whole story is based around varric clearing things up and convincing Vivienne that Hawke wasn't a bad guy.

Its pretty clear how varric was treated that nothing nice was planned for Hawke at the beginning of the interview.

I'd wager the only thing Vivienne had planned for Hawke involved a long drop and a short rope.

[Former_Fiend]

Highly unlikely, in the beginning Hawke is sort out because he's believed RESPONSIBLE for shtf in kirkwall.

The whole story is based around varric clearing things up and convincing Vivienne that Hawke wasn't a bad guy.

Its pretty clear how varric was treated that nothing nice was planned for Hawke at the beginning of the interview.

I'd wager the only thing Vivienne had planned for Hawke involved a long drop and a short rope.

 

...How was Vivienne involved?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Highly unlikely, in the beginning Hawke is sort out because he's believed RESPONSIBLE for shtf in kirkwall.

The whole story is based around varric clearing things up and convincing Vivienne Cassandra that Hawke wasn't a bad guy.

Its pretty clear how varric was treated that nothing nice was planned for Hawke at the beginning of the interview.

I'd wager the only thing Vivienne Cassandra had planned for Hawke involved a long drop and a short rope.

Fixed.

 

And Cassandra explains at the end that they were seeking Hawke because they are a respected voice among the faction they side with so may be able to help ease everyone from escalating the war.

[myahele]

If there is an origin like play through I wonder in the inquistor does something heroic and that is why s/he was recruited in the inquisition?

[Former_Fiend]

The Inquisitor gains the attention of whatever force(presumably the chantry) helps set up the inquisition by being the only survivor of the first Veil Tear, and by possessing the unique power to close said tears.

[Wolfen09]

i thought they made him inquisitor cause he/she can rock the fancy hat

[Former_Fiend]

It's not that s/he's the inqusitor because s/he can rock the cool hat; s/he can rock the cool hat because s/he's the inquisitor.

[Mistic]

We mustn't forget the rumour about a conspiration behind the events in DA:I. And the mysterious book from DA2/Dawn of the Seeker. If that's true, it would make sense for the Divine or other agents to have been thinking of a plan B in case things went awry (that plan B being recreating the Inquisition). The Champion and the Warden would look as likely prospects for the position of Inquisitor.

 

Unfortunately, those two have disappeared. What a... coincidence?