623 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

Btw, you guys are awfully coldhearted towards Liara.

You know, that woman that made ME2 and ME3 happen. Without Liara, no Shepard. Forced friendship? Yes of course, and if you can't be a friend to someone after she saved your life, you're a horrible human being.

Liara delivered the body, Miranda and her team actually resurrected Shepard. Liara is a forced bestie and you can be quite cold hearted and vicious towards Miranda and let her die on multiple occasions. It's also not like Liara would've been the only one who could've retrieved Shep's body, her job was much simpler than the Lazarus project.

[jtav]

Devs do have the power to skew these things. Miranda is the most used squaddie in 2, but she can also strip all defenses and buff the entire team. I happen to adore her but I hauled her everywhere on first playthrough out of sheer utility. Same with Liara. She's very handy in battle and is one of my squad mainstays.

[wright1978]

And I'm much more tolerant of plot railroading than emotional railroading. Look at DA2. Anders is canonically in love with Hawke pretty much regardless of what Hawke does. How Hawke feels about this, or even whether he's in the party past the midpoint of Act 2 is entirely at the player's discretion. Big emotional moments occur with family, the LI, or the two characters who aren't LI options--and they can hate your guts. There's much DA2 does wrong from a gameplay standpoint but it has a voiced protag and still leaves most of the defining of relationships to the player.

ME3's very bad at handing over control of definition of relationship to player. It has a version to tell and the player very much feels dissonance and has to swim against the current if their version doesn't match.

 

Anderson's my new father figure, when did this happen, why don't i get a say?

Liara's the close intimate confidant regularly popping up unnannounced, why can't i maintain more professional distance?

etc

 

There's a moment on Rannoch where Shep automatically gives Tali a rock and consoles her. This sticks in my head because it reminds me of ME2 where Tali's father died and rather than being forced to hug her, a paragon interrupt appears giving me the choice to do so or keep distance.

[Farangbaa]

Liara delivered the body, Miranda and her team actually resurrected Shepard. Liara is a forced bestie and you can be incrdibly cold hearted towards Miranda and let her die multiple times. It's also not like Liara would've been the only one who could've retrieved Shep's body, her job was much simpler than the Lazarus project.

 

Yeah, that's why you can't refuse to work for Cerberus.

 

 

Devs do have the power to skew these things. Miranda is the most used squaddie in 2, but she can also strip all defenses and buff the entire team. I happen to adore her but I hauled her everywhere on first playthrough out of sheer utility. Same with Liara. She's very handy in battle and is one of my squad mainstays.

 

I have to force myself to not use Miranda in ME2

[Daemul]

 

Goddamn, I'm mainstream as ****.

 

Actually, not many of the results in that survey were actually mainstream, some matched up like most curing the Genophage and Soldier being the most popular class, but not all. For example, in the survey you'll find that 84.6% got peace on Rannoch, whilst the actual number was 36%. On the romances, I'm pretty sure that Chris Priestly said that most people who play Bioware games never romance anybody.  Anyway, here's both set's of data so you can compare things yourself. 

 

http://www.masseffec...k/#.U2eZ_fldXK8

 

 

 

On the Survey, I'm really confused on how the author comes to some of the conclusions that he does in his analysis. 

[themikefest]

 

 

There's a moment on Rannoch where Shep automatically gives Tali a rock and consoles her. This sticks in my head because it reminds me of ME2 where Tali's father died and rather than being forced to hug her, a paragon interrupt appears giving me the choice to do so or keep distance.

The same can be said about T'soni. You get the hug on Illium without any say, but after you defeat the Shadow broker you have the option to hug her or not.

[quinwhisperer]

 

Goddamn, I'm mainstream as ****.

 

 

Me, too.

[Daemul]

Devs do have the power to skew these things. Miranda is the most used squaddie in 2, but she can also strip all defenses and buff the entire team. I happen to adore her but I hauled her everywhere on first playthrough out of sheer utility. Same with Liara. She's very handy in battle and is one of my squad mainstays.

 

You are basically gimping yourself in ME2 if you don't use Miranda. I didn't particularly like her in my first playthrough either, but I had no choice but to take her. 

[Sir DeLoria]

I have to say though, that the official stats are:

1. Measuring stats from individual playthroughs and not players
2. Are quite outdated by now

So I reckon they hold as little actual weight as polls.

[themikefest]

Its too bad that chart doesn't show which ending people picked.

[von uber]

Actually, not many of the results in that survey were actually mainstream, some matched up like most curing the Genophage and Soldier being the most popular class, but not all. For example, in the survey you'll find that 84.6% got peace on Rannoch, whilst the actual number was 36%. On the romances, I'm pretty sure that Chris Priestly said that most people who play Bioware games never romance anybody.  Anyway, here's both set's of data so you can compare things yourself. 

 

http://www.masseffec...k/#.U2eZ_fldXK8

 

 

 

On the Survey, I'm really confused on how the author comes to some of the conclusions that he does in his analysis. 

 

All that really says is that the majority of people at the time the survey was done were new players who went default Sheploo/soldier (or who didn't import for whatever reason).

And potentially never picked up ME2 or 1, nor played ME3 again.

 

it certainly wouldn't include me for example.

[Daemul]

I have to say though, that the official stats are:

1. Measuring stats from individual playthroughs and not players
2. Are quite outdated by now

So I reckon they hold as little actual weight as polls.

 

What would be the difference between players and playthroughs? You need to have finished the game to be counted in the official stats would you not? And the stats came out in March 2013, a full year after ME3 came out. Game sales are front loaded, the vast majoirty of their sales will be in their first year, so unless ME3 defied convention the results will not have changed much, it at all, since then. 

 

Even if the official stats are outdated they're still more accurate than the survey, which was done in May 2012. 

[Daemul]

All that really says is that the majority of people at the time the survey was done were new players who went default Sheploo/soldier (or who didn't import for whatever reason).

And potentially never picked up ME2 or 1, nor played ME3 again.

 

it certainly wouldn't include me for example.

 

Hold on, are you talking about the German survey or about Bioware stats? Because Biowares stats aren't from a survey. If your PS3, Xbox or PC is connected to internet, which most people are, then you will be part of the data. You have to opt out of it in the settings if you don't want to be included. 

[Sir DeLoria]

What would be the difference between players and playthroughs? You need to have finished the game to be counted in the official stats would you not? And the stats came out in March 2013, a full year after ME3 came out. Game sales are front loaded, the vast majoirty of their sales will be in their first year, so unless ME3 defied convention the results will not have changed much, it at all, since then. 
 
Even if the official stats are outdated they're still more accurate than the survey, which was done in May 2012.

A lot of people do multiple playthroughs of the game and each is counted as a different player by the stats, so there is a huge difference between playtroughs and individual players. People also still continue to do playthroughs, so it's likely that they did change quite a bit.

[Farangbaa]

What would be the difference between players and playthroughs? You need to have finished the game to be counted in the official stats would you not? And the stats came out in March 2013, a full year after ME3 came out. Game sales are front loaded, the vast majoirty of their sales will be in their first year, so unless ME3 defied convention the results will not have changed much, it at all, since then. 

 

Even if the official stats are outdated they're still more accurate than the survey, which was done in May 2012. 

 

Over a longer time more people will have tried different things, so I doubt the results are unchanged. I think they'll be evened out more.

[Ryriena]

Funny thing is my Shepard most important thing to her is Kaiden not Liara. I barely talked to her in my playthroughs. Hell, she sees Garrus as her second in command.

[Han Shot First]

Liara delivered the body, Miranda and her team actually resurrected Shepard. Liara is a forced bestie and you can be quite cold hearted and vicious towards Miranda and let her die on multiple occasions. It's also not like Liara would've been the only one who could've retrieved Shep's body, her job was much simpler than the Lazarus project.

 

Liara was the only one who could have retrieved Shepard's corpse.

 

Anyone who had no previous connection to Shepard would have been a poor candidate, because they would have no emotional involvement in the mission. If the mission turns south someone without that previous connection to Shepard is likely to bail or abort the mission before someone who is emotionally invested in it. It makes sense for TIM to use one of the Normandy crew members rather than one of his own agents for that reason.

 

Ashley and Kaidan were military, and as such couldn't simply go UA (a.k.a. AWOL), and in any case they were unlikely to cooperate with Cerberus. Ashley may have fired shots before Cerberus could even make their pitch. Also one of the two died on Virmire. That creates problems if the corpse retrieval plot line is going to be explored in a comic, because the writers would either be forced into creating two different versions of the same comic or canonizing one of the two Virmire choices.

 

Tali was probably back at the Migrant Fleet, which would put her out of reach for Cerberus. They have no agents aboard the Migrant Fleet for obvious reasons, and the Quarians and Cerberus had a violent history. Cerberus was responsible for the deaths of Quarians. The Fleet would be likely to fire on any approaching Cerberus vessel and ask questions later. And even if Cerberus could contact Tali, she'd make a poor candidate. She is neither biotic or a front-line soldier, and a minor suit tear would have put her under.

 

Wrex was busy uniting the Krogan clans. He had bigger fish to fry.

 

Garrus *might* have been a good alternative if it wasn't for the fact that his recruitment was optional in ME1. From TIM's point of view he probably would have been a good candidate, but in order to go that route the writers would have needed to retcon Garrus' optional recruitment out of existence.

[Barquiel]

When confronted with polls, statistics (both official and fanmade) or developers comments that disagree with your viewpoint, simply bury your head in the sand and claim the results are flawed (completely ignoring that the results are always very similar, of course). But when the same few people complain about the same nonsense over and over again there is suddenly something very wrong with Liara's character. Nice logic...

[von uber]

Hold on, are you talking about the German survey or about Bioware stats? Because Biowares stats aren't from a survey. If your PS3, Xbox or PC is connected to internet, which most people are, then you will be part of the data. You have to opt out of it in the settings if you don't want to be included. 

 

Sorry, i meant the stats. For example, the amount who didn't meet Wrex either means that a hell of a lot of people shot him on Virmire (either through ME1 or ME2 decision), OR it was a non-import job.

[DuskWanderer]

When confronted with polls, statistics (both official and fanmade) or developers comments that disagree with your viewpoint, simply bury your head in the sand and claim the results are flawed (completely ignoring that the results are always very similar, of course). But when the same few people complain about the same nonsense over and over again there is suddenly something very wrong with Liara's character. Nice logic...

Responses to the LI poll and the other poll have been made here, and the last time I remember you making them months ago. You've yet to answer them. When controlling for the fact that not everyone can romance every charater (Liara can, but everyone else cannot): Garrus, Kaidan, and Ashley come out on top.

 

Back to the official problem: Liara is the most common squadmate because she must be used more often than anyone else, and she's the only character, aside from EDI and James, to be in every single game. It also only factors how often a squadmate is used, not whether or not they enjoy the character. 

 

But go ahead and spin it however you want. You didn't do it back then, and you won't do it now, I think.

[Farangbaa]

EDI and James are in every game?

 

Whatever you've been drinking/smoking, it should be shared.

[Barquiel]

Because I stopped taking you seriously when you tried to explain that all these romance polls show that Kaidan (who is also romanceable by both genders btw) is a more popular love interest than Liara. And Liara being mandatory on some missions doesn't explain the results of fanmade polls.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

Kaidan? Really? Hahahahahahahahaha. 

Going by those stats, Kaidan was left to kiss nuclear fire on Virmire a majority of the time. 

[Daemul]

A lot of people do multiple playthroughs of the game and each is counted as a different player by the stats, so there is a huge difference between playtroughs and individual players. People also still continue to do playthroughs, so it's likely that they did change quite a bit.

 

 

Over a longer time more people will have tried different things, so I doubt the results are unchanged. I think they'll be evened out more.

 

How many people have multiple playthroughs? Most people play through games once, hell most people don't even finish games, don't ask me why, it's just one of those things. For any significant change to be done to the stats a very large amount of people, would need to replay the game a number of times, after the ending fiasco is that likely? They would also have to be supplemented by a large amount of new players, who you would need to rely on to choose differently from everyone else.

 

Remember, Bioware's stats are made up of millions of different playthroughs, 50k people, and i'm being extremely generous with that number, aren't going to change much, nevermind even it out. 

 

Was it even confirmed that Bioware count more than one playthrough per person or is that supposition? Because if they have any statisticians at their offices I very much doubt that they do, it would muddle up their data too much. 

 

Its too bad that chart doesn't show which ending people picked.

 

There's a good reason why that was never released. 

[Sir DeLoria]

When confronted with polls, statistics (both official and fanmade) or developers comments that disagree with your viewpoint, simply bury your head in the sand and claim the results are flawed (completely ignoring that the results are always very similar, of course). But when the same few people complain about the same nonsense over and over again there is suddenly something very wrong with Liara's character. Nice logic...

I think neither are definitive proof of anything, regardless of how they stand to my viewpoint.