623 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

Clint Eastwood is my favorite actor

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Totally agree, my favourite next to James Dean and Marlon Brando.

Spoiler

[Sir DeLoria]

OK. I think you're just wrong about that. If you've got tracking data from 2/3 of all players -- IIRC the real figure is a good deal higher -- the probability that the actual figure for the entire population would be significantly different is very, very, low.
 
I suppose it's possible that people who opt out would also be much more likely to hate Liara (or whatever the issue is), of course, but ignoring data because it isn't perfect data doesn't get you anywhere.

Of course and I don't think that the real figures would be far off, but that's just not enough for me personally.

I also don't want to push any of my opinions, that's just my opinion regardless of the topic.

[Barquiel]

I don't think any one is really contending that she isn't popular. It's more to do with the story aspects of her character, like how she is unique as one of the few characters Shepard cannot define a relationship with in the later installments or how inconsistent her character is (I found you post to be an explanation on how the transformation was simply plausible, the game never actually shows how such a radical change took place).

 

Liara certainly isn't unique in this regard, Jack (who is my favorite romance) also suffers from this in ME3; but Liara is the most prominent example and it's sometimes annoying to have such an obvious example of the outside world affecting the story's quality. We can argue all day that Liara is popular but that doesn't mean it should effect the story. It doesn't explain why ME2 and ME3 Liara treats Shepard, and vice-versa, the same regardless of how they treated her in the past (especially in ME1). It's characteristics like this that make Liara moments such a jarring experience to play through.

 

The import function is far from perfect, of course (and I don't think such flags even exist). But I think it is unfair to single out Liara here, especially in ME3. I mean, whose content does really change depending on how you've treated him/her in previous games? You didn't give Tali the stuff for her pilgrimage in ME1? She will still tell you in ME2 that she always loved you. Garrus greets you less enthusiastic in ME2 if you didn't recruit him in ME1, but everythings else is exactly the same...and whether or not you've paragonized him or even talked to him in ME1 is completely ignored. Now I won't defend Liara's hug on Illium (the scene didn't make Liara fans happy either^^), but in ME3? I simply don't see how Shepard cannot define a relationship with her (especially compared to other characters). Ok, you can't tell her that you hate her (same with most other characters), but you're not forced to accept her as a confidant or best friend either. Every time Liara asks if everything is alright or if it's a bad time to talk you can choose answers like "I don't want to talk about it" or "let's get to business", etc.

[AlanC9]

Of course and I don't think that the real figures would be far off, but that's just not enough for me personally.

I also don't want to push any of my opinions, that's just my opinion regardless of the topic.

 

Personally? I don't follow this. You agree that  the real figures are very close to what  the tracking data shows, but you don't personally want to... what? You don't want to personally believe something the data shows? Which thing?

[themikefest]

The import function is far from perfect, of course (and I don't think such flags even exist). But I think it is unfair to single out Liara here, especially in ME3. I mean, whose content does really change depending on how you've treated him/her in previous games? You didn't give Tali the stuff for her pilgrimage in ME1? She will still tell you in ME2 that she always loved you. Garrus greets you less enthusiastic in ME2 if you didn't recruit him in ME1, but everythings else is exactly the same...and whether or not you've paragonized him or even talked to him in ME1 is completely ignored. Now I won't defend Liara's hug on Illium (the scene didn't make Liara fans happy either^^), but in ME3? I simply don't see how Shepard cannot define a relationship with her (especially compared to other characters). Ok, you can't tell her that you hate her (same with most other characters), but you're not forced to accept her as a confidant or best friend either. Every time Liara asks if everything is alright or if it's a bad time to talk you can choose answers like "I don't want to talk about it" or "let's get to business", etc.

Why when on Sur'Kesh do I have to defend her when Wreav is present?

Shepard: Are the Krogan ready to fight the reapers?

Wreav: That's like saying if the Asari know how to mate.

Shepard: On Liara's behalf, I'm officially offended.

Why couldn't my Shepard agree with what he say's? Or even laugh about it?

 

On Mars when she tells you that it will take more than guns to defeat them and she tells me to take cover, why can't I tell her to shut the crap up?

 

On Thessia, why can't I have a renegade interrupt when she says that stupid comment about Alliance providing air support? I wanted so much to smash her face in, grab her by the collar and tell her if her stupid government revealed the artifact earlier they might not be in  this mess.

 

After Thessia, Liara decides its ok to go yell at Javik. Why? All we get is some pathetic paragon interrupt. Why couldn't there be a renegade interrupt to chew her sorry a** out for yelling at Javik when she should be angry at her pathetic government?

 

The only time in the trilogy you can be shi**y to her is if you rescue her after Virmire and pick the renegade option.

[AlanC9]

 

On Mars when she tells you that it will take more than guns to defeat them and she tells me to take cover, why can't I tell her to shut the crap up?

 

On Thessia, why can't I have a renegade interrupt when she says that stupid comment about Alliance providing air support? I wanted so much to smash her face in, grab her by the collar and tell her if her stupid government revealed the artifact earlier they might not be in  this mess.

 

After Thessia, Liara decides its ok to go yell at Javik. Why? All we get is some pathetic paragon interrupt. Why couldn't there be a renegade interrupt to chew her sorry a** out for yelling at Javik when she should be angry at her pathetic government?

 

 

Do we have similar options for other companions? In general I support letting Shepard be a jackass more often, but I don't see anything special about not letting him be a jackass with Liara in particular.

[themikefest]

Do we have similar options for other companions? In general I support letting Shepard be a jackass more often, but I don't see anything special about not letting him be a jackass with Liara in particular.

I like to go renegade on edi for becoming the platform. I like to of seen a renegade option to tell it to get back in hologram form or risk the airlock

If you chose to save the Quarians, I would've thrown it out the airlock when it mention Shepard sided with the familiar

 

I like to go renegade on Javik, Liara, James, Garrus and edi for not supporting Shepard when facing Ashley/Kaidan when Udina shows evidence of Shepard alledgedlly shooting the salarian councillor if Thane and Kirrahe are not in your playthrough. And even if there is no evidence from Udina they still could've spoken up, but didn't.

[AlanC9]

So you want more jackass options in general, but Liara stands out because she has less such options than other characters?

[themikefest]

Why are these jacka** options? Let me guess. Its another one of those you find amusing things.

[DuskWanderer]

So you want more jackass options in general, but Liara stands out because she has less such options than other characters?

Liara doesn't have any, that's part of the problem. You can be very cold to Garrus (or even send him to his death), you can be downright brutal to Tali, you can be pretty pissy to the VS, but with Liara, the worst you can ever be is business-like.

[Fixers0]

Liara doesn't have any, that's part of the problem. You can be very cold to Garrus (or even send him to his death), you can be downright brutal to Tali, you can be pretty pissy to the VS, but with Liara, the worst you can ever be is business-like.

In me1 yoy could be pretty harsh to Liara but that was before all the favoritism started to pop up.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Liara doesn't have any, that's part of the problem. You can be very cold to Garrus (or even send him to his death), you can be downright brutal to Tali, you can be pretty pissy to the VS, but with Liara, the worst you can ever be is business-like.

 

In ME1, this could be somewhat mitigated. Afterall, you could threaten to take her back to Therum and throw her into the Volcano if she didn't shut up.

 

That said, post-ME1, any semblance of negativity you could display to most characters, let alone Liara disappeared completely. Especially in ME3.

[DuskWanderer]

In ME1, this could be somewhat mitigated. Afterall, you could threaten to take her back to Therum and throw her into the Volcano if she didn't shut up.

 

That said, post-ME1, any semblance of negativity you could display to most characters, let alone Liara disappeared completely. Especially in ME3.

I don't know...slaughtering Tali's people right in front of her is pretty cruel. As is making Javik relive the memory shard. And you can be pretty pissy to the VS on Mars.

 

Less than normal? Absolutely. But still, not a single one to Liara

[von uber]

Taking all the dismissive responses to Liara is pretty 'pissy'. Plus, you don't actually have to talk to her for the most part; unless you deliberately seek her out just to be annoyed by her..

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I don't know...slaughtering Tali's people right in front of her is pretty cruel. As is making Javik relive the memory shard. And you can be pretty pissy to the VS on Mars.

 

Less than normal? Absolutely. But still, not a single one to Liara

 

I know you can be pissy to the VS. Not pissy enough though. My Shepard had half a mind to leave Ashley on Mars. After Mars, you lost a good deal of ability to be negative towards her (or Kaidan).

 

Oh, trolling Tali... that was fun. I didn't give her the Geth data, I insulted the Quarians at every opportunity, I got her exiled AND revealed her father's actions, and then I blew up the Quarians right in front of her. And I didn't hug her on her LM.

[themikefest]

Taking all the dismissive responses to Liara is pretty 'pissy'. Plus, you don't actually have to talk to her for the most part; unless you deliberately seek her out just to be annoyed by her..

I don't believe they're that pi**y at all. I know taking the bottom right dialogue option ends the conversation quicker. Yes she can be ignored throughout the game at which point she will not offer the gift to you in London. But its hard to ignore her or at least her name when talking with other characters when Shepard or characters bring up her name. Or course that can be ignored as well by not talking with anyone at all. The only time I've ignored everyone is when I 've done a speedrun and that was only twice.

[DuskWanderer]

Taking all the dismissive responses to Liara is pretty 'pissy'. Plus, you don't actually have to talk to her for the most part; unless you deliberately seek her out just to be annoyed by her..

Saying "Let's get to business" isn't all that pissy, particularly when she's invading your personal space and asking you probing questions. You can avoid her, but it's impossible to avoid her presence (see all the times she's mentioned, like that one on Sur'Kesh). Plus, you can't avoid her on Thessia, and she's EXTREMELY annoying there.

 

Massively, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the VS, I thought they were pissy, but the make-up parts afterwards were quite lovely. We dislike Liara, though, let's drink to that.

[von uber]

Horses for courses, I don't find her annoying on Thessia; in fact I quite like that whole misson and aftermath (Kai Leng aside).

[DuskWanderer]

Horses for courses, I don't find her annoying on Thessia; in fact I quite like that whole misson and aftermath (Kai Leng aside).

I love the mission too, it's a fun mission with nice-looking locales and the supporting characters (those asari we meet) are good. But Liara...when she said "Maybe the Alliance can spring for air support" I'm thinking, WTF, Earth has been reaperized for weeks (if not months, scale's really hard to figure out) and now you're upset because a few asari are dying. 

[von uber]

Ha. I think that line is a wry commentary on the absence of air support throughout the entire trilogy. It's a throwaway comment that people take far too seriously for some reason. If it had been said by any other character it wouldn't even be mentioned.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Horses for courses, I don't find her annoying on Thessia; in fact I quite like that whole misson and aftermath (Kai Leng aside).

 

I don't find her annoying on Thessia either, that's how I assume people would react in such situation and she isn't so bothered that her combat effectiveness is dampened. I do think the air support joke was a little unrealistic and inappropriate but it doesn't particularly bother me. It was Kai Leng and everything afterwards that made me angry.

 

Ha. I think that line is a wry commentary on the absence of air support throughout the entire trilogy. It's a throwaway comment that people take far too seriously for some reason. If it had been said by any other character it wouldn't even be mentioned.

 

I tend to agree. As I said before though I don't think it was the right time for that line.

[themikefest]

Ha. I think that line is a wry commentary on the absence of air support throughout the entire trilogy. It's a throwaway comment that people take far too seriously for some reason. If it had been said by any other character it wouldn't even be mentioned.

Incorrect. Had Ashley, James, Javik, Garrus or anyone else of said that I would still want to smack them upside the head for it. That comment was crap. There was no reason for having it in the game at all.

[von uber]

Dunno, thought it rang quite true for some situations; air support from a gunship would have been useful on quite a few missions.

[Pirate Queen Isabela]

Dunno, thought it rang quite true for some situations; air support from a gunship would have been useful on quite a few missions.

 

Kai Leng would have to agree. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Kai Leng would have to agree. 

 

Kai Leng thought he did all of the work though. TIM should have promoted the space copter driver instead, he did all the work.