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[Nocte ad Mortem]

The romance system and most of the love interests are still up in the air, so I thought we could use a dedicated speculation thread to discuss all things romance related. For example;

 

-Who do you think the love interests will be?

-Who do you want the love interests to be?

-What sort of love interests would you like to see in the future?

-What system do you think they'll use and what system do you want? (playersexual, bisexual, some vague combination, 2/2/2, other restrictions)

-How many love interests do you think there will be?

-NPC romances; Do you think we'll get them? Do you want them? How do you think they'd work?

[Allan Schumacher]

What's the difference?

 

I don't feel a desire to cuddle/make out/kiss/whatever with someone that is just a friend.

[Allan Schumacher]

I do, not gonna lie lol.

 

And for some people having sex with friends is a-ok too.

[Allan Schumacher]

Easy there cowboy, I just meant kissing/making out.

 

na but I understand what you're saying on both parts. It just depends on the person when it comes down to it.

And it's also no one elses business to question.

 

I'm just pointing out, as you say, it depends on the person.  For myself, romance tends to spawn out of friendship moreso than just spontaneously, but I can tell the difference between someone I am romantically attracted to and someone that I consider a good friend.  Sex is not "the barrier" the blurs those lines for me, which was the implication with the inquiry a few pages back.

[Allan Schumacher]

Yeah, I really think it's a case of them just getting his romance over with to shut the fangirls up about it, but without actually making him a full companion so it doesn't anger the haters.

 

I think you may be overstating the influence over a desire to "shut the fangirls up" or any reticence of not wanting to "anger the haters."

[Allan Schumacher]

Of course, you're right. Though you have to admit, making him an NPC romance does accomplish both these things, no?

 

I suppose people will complain no matter what you do, though. Myself included. My apologies.

 

No worries.  And I suppose it does accomplish those things, but I think David has also made reference that in some capacity, (and you allude to this) with enough predictions/asks coming down the pipe it's almost inevitable that some of them will be correct, and there will be those that are happy/unhappy with the perception that what they were hoping for/worried about ended up coming true.

 

 

It could also be "The writers liked where Cullen ended up at the end of the second game, and think he'd be interesting to explore further with the third."  (Note: Not a writer.  I don't actually know their motivations for using him instead of creating someone else).

[Allan Schumacher]

So Allan, are you at liberty to confirm that Cullen is not a companion that will follow the Inquisitor on his/her adventures, but an NPC that will remain at the home-base at all times?

 

I am not at liberty to confirm anything like that.

[Allan Schumacher]

Out if curiosity. Do you know what characters are LIs and their orientations and plots? I'm not asking to tell us any details, just... Do you know or maybe just like us you have only some information cause it is not directly connected to your work?

 

I do know the romances.  I'm not familiar with all of party member plots, though.

[Allan Schumacher]

Gaider hates fans making any assumptions about the game other than that it will be good. As far as he's concerned, we're wrong to assume that the game will include dragons. 

 

 

Elaborate, because I don't get this impression at all.

[Allan Schumacher]

Zevran says he's bisexual because he appreciates beauty in all its forms. Being bisexual compliments this other part of his personality.

 

I am not bisexual.  Is me saying I can appreciate the beauty of both men and women somehow undermined?

 

How about an asexual person thinking someone looks attractive?

[Allan Schumacher]

No i was making a point that Zevran and Isabella made Great Bisexual Characters because their Personalities, and Beliefs complimented that fact, regardless if you romanced them or not it was fun having them around.

 

I'm saying that I am not sure why Zevran or Isabella wouldn't also make Great Heterosexual/Homosexual characters, based on how they are presented, as well.

 

It seems problematic to me because they also happen to be very promiscuous and very sexually open.  Is this what makes them Great Bisexual Characters?

[Allan Schumacher]

No, but that isn't what was asked. It was asked if the character would be different if they weren't bisexual. The answer is yes. Current Zevran has one aspect of his personality informing his sexuality. Hypothethical non-bisexual Zevran would not. That makes him different. Whether this difference is significant enough to inform character design, I don't really care. As I've stated elsewhere, I am A-okay with both the DA2 design and the DA: I design.

 

So you are saying that if Zevran was only gay, him stating that he appreciates all forms of beauty would be different?

[Allan Schumacher]

Their Prmoscuous because of their life styles, and those life styles have led them to encounters that gave them the options of various sexualities, Isabella was a Pirate, and Zevran is an Assassin and he travelled alot, their Lives, Their Personalities, and where their from and how tolerant sexuality is in their Homelands help make them great characters, and was quite happy with those characters being Bisexual. I would be quite happy with more characters of various Sexualities instead of everyone being Player Sexual.

 

You seem to be saying that their bisexuality feeds into their promiscuity.  Am I correct in reading it this way?

[Allan Schumacher]

Yes, because in one case his appreciation for beauty has a causative affect on his sexuality. In the other it wouldn't.

 

But does it?

 

If I am heterosexual, how do we classify me recognizing a woman as being beautiful, but not one that I am sexually attracted to?  If the assumption is that my views of ALL women is coloured because I am heterosexual, is that actually accurate?

[Allan Schumacher]

its the Loneliness of it, they both travel for their jobs, and they dont really have time to settle down and have lasting relationships, so I, personally see that their trying to fill a void with promiscuity. Zevran is from Antiva and was Bought, and was never really given a chance to make any decisions of his own, Isabella is from Rivian and her Husband was a Complete [edit]Monster, they've both been given the chance in their past for experimentation and found they liked it, so Their Bisexual now, and the Lack of ever being in one place long enough for any amount of time has given them a Very Open Personality wise to one night stands because of their lives.

 

I apologize if I am just sounding obtuse, but I'm not sure how this wouldn't still be valid and applicable if Zevran or Isabela were not bisexual.

 

Is it the idea that their life paths make them less able to form longer term relationships, and as such they grew to be more open sexually to satisfy their needs when otherwise they may not have?


I guess what I'm asking is, do you think that Zevran may not have been bisexual if his life path was different?

[Allan Schumacher]

It may not have anything to do with your sexual orientation, but seeing beauty in all things will probably shape your sexuality.

 

I could see it feeding into Zevran being promiscuous.  But as you say, I'm not sure if it's because of his orientation.

[Allan Schumacher]

Line up and I'll hand out the facepalm images. Don't worry, we have enough for everyone.


We should probably have a rigorous and shared definition of bisexuality before answering this question. That said, I think sexual orientation is a combination of both genetic and environmental factors. If Zevran were born and raised in a completely different environment, it's possible he wouldn't be bisexual.

 

That's fair enough.  It's part of why I am inquiring about it, because I have read up on the idea of biological and environmental factors influencing sexuality.  The idea of the fluidity of one's orientation and so forth, and what may (or may not) influence those things.

 

It may be, but I don't think it ought to be a consequence of his lifestyle though, so when assessing things such as the believability of a character I was hoping on examining the notions of "This person is believable because of X," rather than "This person is believable, and happens to have X."

 

 

For what it's worth, Inquisitor Julianos, I'd be lying if I said that I couldn't relate first hand to your perspective.  It's something that I don't really believe so much anymore, but I had some people poke me and make me go "must this be the way things are" on a variety of topics, including sexuality.

[Allan Schumacher]

SNIP: One of those posts where, after posting, I realize it's not as funny as I thought!

[Allan Schumacher]

To be honest, I definitely pre-judge a little by what faction a character is obviously with. I know which factions I'm going to support. It becomes pretty obvious which characters just are not going to be on board with my choices. I mean, I'm still going to explore their dialog and everything, either way. I'm not the "MURDER KNIFE THE DISSENTERS" type. But I know which characters are just obviously not going to be my LI or BFF based on their faction representation being the opposite of who I'm tossing my support behind.    

 

To be honest, I actually hope we're successful in undermining this conviction as the game goes on.  But that's because that the type of thing that I really enjoy happening to me!

 

[Allan Schumacher]

My opinion is that it was actually fanservice when it wasn't carefully worked-out among some characters and obviously done to please all the players in spite of characters' personalities.

 

This is a tricky thing, and it's something that I trip up on a lot still too.

 

For myself, LGBT content is "unusual content."  So I would say to myself, if we're going to put that sort of content in there, shouldn't we make sure that it's done in some sort of particularly interesting way (whatever that means...) so it's not just "thrown in there?"  But then, as I've gotten a bit more comfortable learning, is that this means I'm creating an extra gate that a bisexual (or even gay/lesbian) relationship has to pass.  It implicitly suggests, to me, that it's okay to make a heterosexual romanceable simply because you think it'd be an interesting romanceable character.  And we won't need much in the way of "heterosexual content" to make it seem like it's more than simply making someone romanceable.

 

In this sense, it's a bias because there is implicitly less constraints on adding a heterosexual romance to the game, because I don't need to create some sexuality specific reason for their inclusion in the game as a romance.

[Allan Schumacher]

Guess it's not for me, a bisexual person myself. Maybe I just failed to word my opinion better, in that case, I'm sorry.

 

Not sure why you'd be sorry.  It's something that I need to work on, not you.

 

I'm just saying that it's easier for me to mentally include a romance that is heterosexual, without ensuring that there is specific content to address their heterosexuality, while my initial challenges with, for example, bisexual romances is that I feel that the character's bisexuality is something that should be explored because it's bisexual.

 

 

Not that I think this makes me feel like I'm a bad person.  I think it's also a part that "this type of content is less familiar for me, so there's a degree of personal interest in exploring it because that may be interesting for me."  However, for someone else, it may be unnecessary that a bisexual (or gay or lesbian) character have the details of their sexuality explored in order to "justify" making the character that particular orientation.

[Allan Schumacher]

Anders went out of his way to let you know he was a ladykiller in Awakenings.  He seemed pretty established as straight.  In DA2 he was a militant gay activist.  

 

I am not sure I agree with this.  The idea that Anders, who can freely be in a relationship with a man or a woman in DA2, is a militant gay activist comes across as unnecessary and almost inflammatory.

 

Could you explain yourself a bit more, because I met a lot of women at PAX that really loved their Anders romance arcs through DA2.

[Allan Schumacher]

It's the word order, he came out hard- flirting with my gay warden and grieving over a gay lover.  And he was a militant (mage) activist.

 

I did not get close to romancing him when I played as female, so I don't know what that looked like.

 

I suppose that's part of the difficulty with bisexuality?  You seem to have assumed that he's a militant gay activist because his actions told you that he was gay. 

 

Do you still feel that way if he is actually bisexual?  Would it make him a militant bisexual activist?  Or just a militant activist?

[Allan Schumacher]

Hmm, maybe a diversity of writers (or even just ideas) from those who have different sexual orientations is needed, along with collaboration in the writing? Perspective is a wonderful thing.

 

Just to be clear, I am not one of the writers.  But otherwise yes, I think diversity can be advantageous as it can provide perspective.

[Allan Schumacher]

Funny thing, I remember DG mentioned that not all DA2 LIs were "bi". He mentioned that their SO varied depending on what character you are playing. The only "real" bi in the game is actually Isabela.

 

Was this actually stated, or is it something that you think he said?